Least Favorite Gods


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Silver Crusade

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captain yesterday wrote:

Don't we have enough sexist deities in the game already.

As the parent of a girl I wholeheartedly agree with how Erastil is currently portrayed. It's hard enough trying to show not all men are sexist a&#&@$!s as it is. :-)

Agreed.

You aren't adding anything to the setting by making Good aligned deities, being of pure good, sexists and bigots. The only thing you're doing is normalizing and okaying sexism, and when you apply it a full on GOD and that deity is good, you're saying sexism is good, which couldn't be further from the truth.


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Yeah, I have to agree with Captain Yesterday and Rysky. As it is, people still see Erastil as "the sexist god", despite that having been stated by the development team (I want to say James Jacobs, specifically) as being an error and not something they want to associate with a Good deity. I'm all for having deities being flawed and having shortcomings, but to given a good deity such a flaw is really just not productive.


Rysky wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

Don't we have enough sexist deities in the game already.

As the parent of a girl I wholeheartedly agree with how Erastil is currently portrayed. It's hard enough trying to show not all men are sexist a&#&@$!s as it is. :-)

Agreed.

You aren't adding anything to the setting by making Good aligned deities, being of pure good, sexists and bigots. The only thing you're doing is normalizing and okaying sexism, and when you apply it a full on GOD and that deity is good, you're saying sexism is good, which couldn't be further from the truth.

But we'll give Torag a pass with his approval of genocide the greenskins despite being a being of pure Good ("Torag normalizes genocide!")? Vidalis and Ragathiel have also been mentioned up thread for being too kill happy for many people's interpretation of Good but I guess as long as they're no -ist it's okay they support the philosophy of "sword to face all day every day"

Hell, someone also mentioned that Empyreal Lord of romantic suicide. That's a truly horrid thing to condone and yet there's a demigood of pure good promoting/normalizing it.


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Not an Empyreal Lord of romantic suicide. A neutral deity slipping into evil, yes.

I never said any of those were okay, so stop putting words in my mouth. :-)

Silver Crusade

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Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Rysky wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

Don't we have enough sexist deities in the game already.

As the parent of a girl I wholeheartedly agree with how Erastil is currently portrayed. It's hard enough trying to show not all men are sexist a&#&@$!s as it is. :-)

Agreed.

You aren't adding anything to the setting by making Good aligned deities, being of pure good, sexists and bigots. The only thing you're doing is normalizing and okaying sexism, and when you apply it a full on GOD and that deity is good, you're saying sexism is good, which couldn't be further from the truth.

But we'll give Torag a pass with his approval of genocide the greenskins despite being a being of pure Good ("Torag normalizes genocide!")? Vidalis and Ragathiel have also been mentioned up thread for being too kill happy for many people's interpretation of Good but I guess as long as they're no -ist it's okay they support the philosophy of "sword to face all day every day"

Hell, someone also mentioned that Empyreal Lord of romantic suicide. That's a truly horrid thing to condone and yet there's a demigood of pure good promoting/normalizing it.

I don't like that interpretation of Torag but since I've never really been interested in dwarves I've never looked into it too much.

Ragathiel is a crusader and Vildeis is a black-ops Crusader, they murder the f&@+ out of Evil s+#&, that's a difference from bigotry.

And Naderi

A) isn't an Empyreal Lord

and

B) isn't Good, she's True Nuetral.

and

C) she and her non-Evil followers do everything they can to prevent said suicides.


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I'm a huge fan of dwarves, maybe even to a fault (I admit it, I love using axes, hammers, and have a beard) but I've never made a follower of Torag.


Whoops, memory's playing tricks on me apologies.

Point still stands though. Given some time in the faith books, I can probably come up with a list of deities and such who despite being entities of pure good, have some abhorrent tendency in there somewhere (probably ranging toward the burn the entire goblin village to the ground end of the spectrum) which is why I roll my eyes at "Good god's can't be -ist! because pure GOod" as a concept.


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Whatever man, pick a fight with someone else, I'm in no mood. :-)


Furthermore, where is the fact that Torag approves of genocide of orcs et al. coming from? is it actually written down somewhere, or is it an extrapolation? Because I find it hard to believe that Paizo would actually put that down as something a Good deity would encourage or endorse, especially given their track record.


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Turns out they just assumed Torag was about that. No mention of Orcs was made in Inner Sea Gods.

We'll see what is said in Shattered Star.

Edit: No orcs there either.


That's what I figured. Though I can understand, to a degree, where that conclusion would have come from, as much as I disagree with it.


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cannen144 wrote:
Furthermore, where is the fact that Torag approves of genocide of orcs et al. coming from? is it actually written down somewhere, or is it an extrapolation? Because I find it hard to believe that Paizo would actually put that down as something a Good deity would encourage or endorse, especially given their track record.

Paladin code of Torag

Against my people’s enemies, I will show no mercy. I will not allow their surrender, except when strategy warrants. I will defeat them, yet even in the direst struggle, I will act in a way that brings honor to Torag.

I know that genocide is.. well. About the worst thing you can do in our world. But try to imagine a D&D world where someone's species actually DOES make them almost irredeemably evil. The orc tribe that surrenders now is just going to wind up raiding you or someone else and then good people are going to wind up dead.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
cannen144 wrote:
Furthermore, where is the fact that Torag approves of genocide of orcs et al. coming from? is it actually written down somewhere, or is it an extrapolation? Because I find it hard to believe that Paizo would actually put that down as something a Good deity would encourage or endorse, especially given their track record.

Paladin code of Torag

Against my people’s enemies, I will show no mercy. I will not allow their surrender, except when strategy warrants. I will defeat them, yet even in the direst struggle, I will act in a way that brings honor to Torag.

I know that genocide is.. well. About the worst thing you can do in our world. But try to imagine a D&D world where someone's species actually DOES make them almost irredeemably evil. The orc tribe that surrenders now is just going to wind up raiding you or someone else and then good people are going to wind up dead.

Yeah, that's an extrapolation. Again, I can understand coming to that conclusion, but I disagree with it. There is a difference between not showing mercy, and outright slaughter and genocide. Furthermore, it only says "the enemies of my people". That could mean the tribe of maruading orcs that are burning down villages and destroying crops. Or it could mean the humans who have enslaved kinsfolk. But it doesn't necessarily mean EVERY orc/giant/human/whatever to exist, and I'd be willing to bet that Paizo would agree on that point.

Honestly, I feel that the paladin code for Torag would mesh better with a Lawful Neutral Deity than a Lawful Good one

Shadow Lodge

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
I know that genocide is.. well. About the worst thing you can do in our world. But try to imagine a D&D world where someone's species actually DOES make them almost irredeemably evil. The orc tribe that surrenders now is just going to wind up raiding you or someone else and then good people are going to wind up dead.

I wouldn't imagine many people would have an issue with the Genocide of the Reavers from Serenity.


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That wouldn't be genocide, they're just crazy humans.


cannen144 wrote:


Yeah, that's an extrapolation.

Well, Erastil hating women and Ragathiel encouraging the execution of litters and I won't even get started about Cayden. But that didn't stop those from becoming apparently becoming default assumptions about the gods.

DM Beckett wrote:


I think if this was a LG FEMALE deity, no one would blink an eye and might even applaud it's progressivism.

Without trying to drag the thread that way. I think there is something to be said about just how traditional so many of the game's female deities are. Might have been interesting to have a little more role reversal there. It certainly wouldn't fix any problems people have with so many deities, but it could have been interesting.


Out of the core 20 all seem ok to me

out of all Shub-Niggurath


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Hmm

I'm gonna suggest changes for some gods I like too, that I think would make them generally more likable not just the gods I hate.

Pharasma: since people complain about her being boring/not doing anything/being unimportant to the setting.

I think the solution without deleting her, would be to put something in her backstory, to show her wrath. I've toyed with in the passed making her part of a double act, she's the god of birth and fate, and the other half being the god of death and judgement. Then perhaps the other half became corrupt so she destroyed him and took his domains. Or stripped him of all his power and banished him.

The other option would be to put a god in her passed that tried to steal souls from her so she flat destroyed them completely. To show she is important to protecting the grand design.

Zyphus: Make him Pharasma's ex that she stripped of all power, so now is has this ridiculous none domain of accidental death. Or make him the ghost of the god she killed when they invaded the boneyard.

Erastil: Move him into the cities and metropolis, forget about the little village vibe and promote community and neighborliness in the big cities.

Irori: make him neutral not lawful and let him get over the gods that ascended through the starstone. because currently I see him as the god of petty b+@$&y people who say they discovered themselves and become enlightened on there gap year.

Sarenrea and Iomadea: I think there fix can be tied together. Have Iomadea's twistedness be do to Asmodeus and have Sarenrea discover this and redeem her, thus making her the true redeemer and then have Iomadea use her worshippers to help straighten out the cult of the dawnflower.


I don't see anything wrong with Irori feeling superior to Iomedae, Cayden, and Norgorber. He became a literal deity through his own force of will. They touched a rock.


Sundakan wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with Irori feeling superior to Iomedae, Cayden, and Norgorber. He became a literal deity through his own force of will. They touched a rock.

He is the god of enlightenment. With a superiority complex. Enlightenment isn't about being scornful people less than you.


0o0o0 O 0o0o0 wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Most of the answers to this thread are reinforcing to me how most of these gods are actually good. Just LOL at the Pharasma, Calistria, and Cayden Cailean hate.

Yep, it shows Paizo must be doing something right with such strong opinions.

I do not understand the hate for Cayden. He's a laugh riot, but nice about it. And Calistira, also fun but nastier about it. I see some posters dislike Cayden for being naughty and drinking too much. I suspect it it because most posters are American.

What does surprise me is so little hate for Abadar.

I LOATHE Abadar, and so do the rest of my international online group (including Americans).

He's the god of arbitrary law. F that, I'm not worshipping that, worship law just because someone powerful said those are the rules. No thank you. Just as bad is that his own portfolio has a contradiction. He is the god of law, but also money and the market. The market is entirely about law made by the powerful and the market is not solvable, it is a chaotic system, hence the players in reality are high-stakes gamblers. He is the god of a game in which only the rich may play, by their own rules, and the rules don't always apply. Some god of law he is.

So no, I don't get it. Cayden and Calistira are bad because hedonism is bad, but the god of corporate lickspittles is okay? Not for me, thank you. At least Asmodeus tells you to your face that he's a corporate tyrant. He doesn't pretend any of that 'fair and balanced' pack of lies.

Keep in mind that when you're judging Abadar, you're talking about a God who presides over a medieval economy. Not one that's run by computer driven exchanges which have automatic trading programs that react to microsecond market fluctuations. Keep also in mind that Pathfinder economics are not simulationsist constructions, they're simply background dressing for what are primarily heroic adventure stories. Abadar isn't the god of Microsoft, Apple, or Enron. He is a god who presides over cvilisations and economies far more primitive that what we consider the norm.

And if anyone dares to mention Starfinder, consider yourself remanded to the corner. I expect Starfinder to throw some major monkey wrenches into the rpg religion model the way Dragonstar did, but I, nor do you, have any idea what they are at this time.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with Irori feeling superior to Iomedae, Cayden, and Norgorber. He became a literal deity through his own force of will. They touched a rock.
He is the god of enlightenment. With a superiority complex. Enlightenment isn't about being scornful people less than you.

its about smugly not lording it over them so that they're even more resentful about how zen you are, duh.


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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with Irori feeling superior to Iomedae, Cayden, and Norgorber. He became a literal deity through his own force of will. They touched a rock.
He is the god of enlightenment. With a superiority complex. Enlightenment isn't about being scornful people less than you.

Considering the definition of enlightenment is ever-changing and considered by a lot of people to be more of a "personal truth" than a universal one, that's not wholly apparent.

Besides, they cheated.


swoosh wrote:
cannen144 wrote:


Yeah, that's an extrapolation.
Well, Erastil hating women and Ragathiel encouraging the execution of litters and I won't even get started about Cayden. But that didn't stop those from becoming apparently becoming default assumptions about the gods.

And I disagree with those interpretations as well. I mean, the issue with Erastil being sexist/misogynist has been stated as being incorrect repeatedly, that interpretation of Ragathiel is in the same vein as the interpretation of Torag that I've addressed already, and in regards to Cayden Cailean, I'd need you to be more specific on what exactly you're referring to.

Again, I understand how people have come to these conclusions about these deities. I disagree with those conclusions, very vehemently in regards to some of them, but I understand where they come from.


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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with Irori feeling superior to Iomedae, Cayden, and Norgorber. He became a literal deity through his own force of will. They touched a rock.
He is the god of enlightenment. With a superiority complex. Enlightenment isn't about being scornful people less than you.

There's nothing in the definition of Enlightenment that precludes being a jerk. You're simply an Enlightened jerk.

We don't know HOW Irori became a god. He may well have some severe blindspots about his own path that might temper his pride in this matter... if he were aware of them.


Looks like I was wrong about Torag. This is what Mr. Jacobs had to say on the subject:

James Jacobs wrote:

I think that fits with the dwarven hatred ability quite well. I think that orcs, as presented in Pathfinder, are intended to be a bad guy race and have been for over 10,000 years. If they suddenly have a shift and become less about trying to murder all the time, it'd be a shock but at that point I suspect Torag would shift his position from "kill them all" to "negotiate peace but keep wary." But at the current time, that's not an option, and he's about protection and protecting his worshipers, and if that means wiping out the tide of evil orcs that have been trying for thousands of years to destroy those people, so be it.

Now of course this stance does cause some of the other good gods, particularly neutral and chaotic good gods, discomfort, and they do use the words genocide to talk about it, but I doubt Torag would. From his stance and the stance of the dwarven people, not killing out orcs will eventually result in their own race's genocide, so there's not really a choice.

It's certainly a complex issue, and it's one that gives a lawful good deity an interesting gray area to play with in a way that does NOT undermine the whole core concept of that deity. That's a tricky thing to pull off, and we've failed at it before, but I think we got it right with Torag.


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cannen144 wrote:

Looks like I was wrong about Torag. This is what Mr. Jacobs had to say on the subject:

James Jacobs wrote:

I think that fits with the dwarven hatred ability quite well. I think that orcs, as presented in Pathfinder, are intended to be a bad guy race and have been for over 10,000 years. If they suddenly have a shift and become less about trying to murder all the time, it'd be a shock but at that point I suspect Torag would shift his position from "kill them all" to "negotiate peace but keep wary." But at the current time, that's not an option, and he's about protection and protecting his worshipers, and if that means wiping out the tide of evil orcs that have been trying for thousands of years to destroy those people, so be it.

Now of course this stance does cause some of the other good gods, particularly neutral and chaotic good gods, discomfort, and they do use the words genocide to talk about it, but I doubt Torag would. From his stance and the stance of the dwarven people, not killing out orcs will eventually result in their own race's genocide, so there's not really a choice.

It's certainly a complex issue, and it's one that gives a lawful good deity an interesting gray area to play with in a way that does NOT undermine the whole core concept of that deity. That's a tricky thing to pull off, and we've failed at it before, but I think we got it right with Torag.

I think an important point to make is that the orc/dwarf relationship is a trope of fantasy literature (specifically Tolkien-inspired fantasy). The relationship isn't meant to reflect a misunderstanding between cultures or simply fighting over resources - it's about a life and death struggle for survival, mainly for the constantly in decline dwarves. If that doesn't work for you in your version of Golarion or your campaign, I suggest you also tweak Torag's paladin code.

Silver Crusade

BigNorseWolf wrote:


Paladin code of Torag

Against my people’s enemies, I will show no mercy. I will not allow their surrender, except when strategy warrants. I will defeat them, yet even in the direst struggle, I will act in a way that brings honor to Torag.

I know that genocide is.. well. About the worst thing you can do in our world. But try to imagine a D&D world where someone's species actually DOES make them almost irredeemably evil. The orc tribe that surrenders now is just going to wind up raiding you or someone else and then good people are going to wind up dead.

"If Father hadn't stepped in to save me as a child, I would have been one of the folks dead, too. But the Forge-Father helped us both out and though it has been hard growing up with dwarves and the kids were mean, ...unprepared metal shatters from a hammer's blow."


Brigid Half-Human wrote:


"If Father hadn't stepped in to save me as a child, I would have been one of the folks dead, too. But the Forge-Father helped us both out and though it has been hard growing up with dwarves and the kids were mean, ...unprepared metal shatters from a hammer's blow."

Half orc is a vastly different story.


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Caiden is by far and away the worst.

Silver Crusade

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... do we need to just make a "Is alcohol Evil?" thread?


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Rysky wrote:
... do we need to just make a "Is alcohol Evil?" thread?

And most important of all: must alcohol make the paladin fall?


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Kileanna wrote:
Rysky wrote:
... do we need to just make a "Is alcohol Evil?" thread?
And most important of all: must alcohol make the paladin fall?

Only if he's had enough


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kileanna wrote:
Rysky wrote:
... do we need to just make a "Is alcohol Evil?" thread?
And most important of all: must alcohol make the paladin fall?
Only if he's had enough

What if he can still say the entire alphabet backwards?


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Just need a s*$+ty dexterity and a wet log.


cannen144 wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kileanna wrote:
Rysky wrote:
... do we need to just make a "Is alcohol Evil?" thread?
And most important of all: must alcohol make the paladin fall?
Only if he's had enough
What if he can still say the entire alphabet backwards?

That is a corruption of the alphabet. Instant fall!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I really dislike Erastil. He just strikes me as incredibly boring and stereotypical old grizzly hunter god. I haven't run into any interesting twists about him.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with Irori feeling superior to Iomedae, Cayden, and Norgorber. He became a literal deity through his own force of will. They touched a rock.
He is the god of enlightenment. With a superiority complex. Enlightenment isn't about being scornful people less than you.

There's nothing in the definition of Enlightenment that precludes being a jerk. You're simply an Enlightened jerk.

We don't know HOW Irori became a god. He may well have some severe blindspots about his own path that might temper his pride in this matter... if he were aware of them.

Well then I'll hate him for being the most passive aggressive gap year interpretation of the enlightenment ever.


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Gave the Deity Adjustment Bureau its own thread.


Delightful wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

Canonically, Shelyn used to be Chaotic, and then merged after the horrible experience of Doubral (or something that seemed to be Doubral) coming back as Zon-Kuthon. Wait, that gives me an idea . . .

Delightful wrote:
{. . .} Moving on. Does anyone have suggestions as to how their least fav god/goddess can be less terrible in your eyes?

I posted my ideas way above, but I got an additional idea:

Vildeis: Claw your own eyes out so that you can't see Evil, rather than dealing with it? This is worse than sticking your head in the sand . . . . Except what if it wasn't just that Vildeis saw Evil, but the same Evil that turned Doubral into Zon-Kuthon nearly took over Vildeis, and clawing out her own eyes was the only way she could interrupt its entry?

Wait... I don't want to crap on your suggestion on how to improve Vildeis, but Chronicle of the Righteous says that while Vildeis did go a bit crazy and scratch out her eyes after seeing Evil for the first time, she didn't do that so she wouldn't have to deal with it anymore.

She's an utter zealot dedicated to the complete extermination of Evil everywhere with every scar on her body being earned by fighting Evil across the cosmos. Ragathiel probably looks at her and says, "Damn, Vildeis, don't you think your going a bit overboard".

Actually, this isn't mutually incompatible with what I suggested, unless either:

(1) (less interesting possibility) The text by somebody else that I compressed(*) and paraphrased instead of quoting above(**) because it was easier to type the compressed paraphrased form instead of finding and quoting properly(***) was simply inaccurate.

(*)Using noticeably lossy compression, as you will see below.

(**)Okay, here's what I should have done before, and actually went back to search for it (from within a Spoiler no less) and quoted it:

Malefactor wrote:

{. . .} Now, on a more negative note, I shall put (one of) my least favorite deities for each alignment. {. . .}

Lawful Good:
{. . .} to me Vildeis is probably my least favorite LG gal. First off, Vildeis is insane, and not in the "my boy-slash-girl-gender-neutral-friend actually liked *insert Tabletop game of choice* way, but in the "stabs out her own eyes so she cannot perceive Evil" way. Self mutilation? That is kyton level stuff right there. Really, to me Vildeis represents the "doing-good-right-here-right-now-no-matter-the-long-term-consequences" extremist side of good, like the 1st level paladin who detects evil on a great wyrm and moves automatically smite it, regardless of what it is doing or how ill-equipped he is to handle the backlash. "He was evil, so I killed him" isn't always the best approach, but to a being like Vildeis, they think it is, creating more headaches for the side of good in the long run.

{. . .}

(***)I tell you, I'm in the wrong line of work. I do Modern Necromancy Life Science research, yet have almost no Gluttony but more than enough Sloth to drag down a tree. They found in ancient Thassilon thousands of years ago that THIS DOESN'T WORK RIGHT . . . On the other hand, Sloth is part of the reason I can conjure up these posts in the first place . . . And you know what that means . . . .

(2) (more interesting possibility) Chronicle of the Righteous has some information directly to the contrary of what I said, that you didn't quote above.

Being almost taken over and having to do something horrific to yourself (and perplexing to others who don't know the whole story) would be an understandable (if not necessarily good) excuse for becoming a zealot.

Rysky wrote:

{. . .}

... we need twitter accounts for all the deities.

Be careful what you wish for . . . .

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
{. . .} Abadar isn't the god of Microsoft, Apple, or Enron. {. . .}

Yeah, he's the god of Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, and Lehman Brothers . . . .

Cole Deschain wrote:
Gave the Deity Adjustment Bureau its own thread.

Sign me up! Post over there in progress . . .


^Done.

See? The ancient Thassilonians were right -- I do conjure posts with sloth . . . .


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Aroden. He was a lawful neutral human-supremacist jerk. He encouraged conquest, empire building, and other sources of extreme misery, often at the expense of "less civilized" humans and non-humans in general. He discouraged building positive bonds with other species and instead pushed for dominance.

For all of my complaints against her, Iomedae is still a great many steps up from Aroden. Him dying also got us Milani, a fairly neat deity. Cheliax collapsed and created a neat setting of infernal temptation instead of conquering some more peoples.

As for the Worldwound and the Eye of Abendego I don't think Aroden's death was more than mildly associated with them at all. The Worldwound was Areelu Vorlesh and Deskari working together (along with a few dupes) to bring their planes together, while the Eye of Abendego is, I think, Gozreh containing and bleeding off the energies of a link to Abaddon. Sacrificing what is now the Sodden Lands to save the rest of the planet seems very fitting for them.

Also: Jatembe is more awesome than Aroden in basically every way, I think, and I would much rather have him be focused on than Aroden.


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Rysky wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Moving on. Does anyone have suggestions as to how their least fav god/goddess can be less terrible in your eyes?

Somethings I'd like to see that I think would go a long way.

Erastil Return to the original concept of him being very traditional family orientated, <or sexist>.

Well he's Good aligned, so no.

Good does not equal perfect. He's still my favorite god but I prefer the original concept.

Silver Crusade

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Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Moving on. Does anyone have suggestions as to how their least fav god/goddess can be less terrible in your eyes?

Somethings I'd like to see that I think would go a long way.

Erastil Return to the original concept of him being very traditional family orientated, <or sexist>.

Well he's Good aligned, so no.
Good does not equal perfect. He's still my favorite god but I prefer the original concept.

And sexist does not equal Good.


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Rysky wrote:
Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Moving on. Does anyone have suggestions as to how their least fav god/goddess can be less terrible in your eyes?

Somethings I'd like to see that I think would go a long way.

Erastil Return to the original concept of him being very traditional family orientated, <or sexist>.

Well he's Good aligned, so no.
Good does not equal perfect. He's still my favorite god but I prefer the original concept.
And sexist does not equal Good.

Well opinions differ but a god of farming, thinking that women should take care of the family and men dig the fields, or even that women should look to their husbands for advice and final decisions doesn't seem that bad to me. As long as no one is forced into something they don't want to.

Silver Crusade

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Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Moving on. Does anyone have suggestions as to how their least fav god/goddess can be less terrible in your eyes?

Somethings I'd like to see that I think would go a long way.

Erastil Return to the original concept of him being very traditional family orientated, <or sexist>.

Well he's Good aligned, so no.
Good does not equal perfect. He's still my favorite god but I prefer the original concept.
And sexist does not equal Good.
Well opinions differ but a god of farming, thinking that women should take care of the family and men dig the fields, or even that women should look to their husbands for advice and final decisions doesn't seem that bad to me. As long as no one is forced into something they don't want to.

That's pretty bad.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Moving on. Does anyone have suggestions as to how their least fav god/goddess can be less terrible in your eyes?

Somethings I'd like to see that I think would go a long way.

Erastil Return to the original concept of him being very traditional family orientated, <or sexist>.

Well he's Good aligned, so no.
Good does not equal perfect. He's still my favorite god but I prefer the original concept.
And sexist does not equal Good.
Well opinions differ but a god of farming, thinking that women should take care of the family and men dig the fields, or even that women should look to their husbands for advice and final decisions doesn't seem that bad to me. As long as no one is forced into something they don't want to.

That's pretty bad.

Well, we won't agree I suppose.

I play Erastil the original way. My cleric asked his NPC fiance right before the wedding to stay safer (hint: sit in their house at Sandpoint), she told him to forget about it, he said fine she could do as she wished but cast every protection prayer on his list on her every time she was in battle and hoped -secretly- she'd get wiser once they had a family. Some players thought he was sexist, I thought he was just old fashioned.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Torag: Not a Dwarf Fan Here
Naderi: The only PF deity to get too close to my comfort zone

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Alni wrote:
Rysky wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Moving on. Does anyone have suggestions as to how their least fav god/goddess can be less terrible in your eyes?

Somethings I'd like to see that I think would go a long way.

Erastil Return to the original concept of him being very traditional family orientated, <or sexist>.

Well he's Good aligned, so no.
Good does not equal perfect. He's still my favorite god but I prefer the original concept.
And sexist does not equal Good.
Well opinions differ but a god of farming, thinking that women should take care of the family and men dig the fields, or even that women should look to their husbands for advice and final decisions doesn't seem that bad to me. As long as no one is forced into something they don't want to.

That's pretty bad.

Well, we won't agree I suppose.

I play Erastil the original way. My cleric asked his NPC fiance right before the wedding to stay safer (hint: sit in their house at Sandpoint), she told him to forget about it, he said fine she could do as she wished but cast every protection prayer on his list on her every time she was in battle and hoped -secretly- she'd get wiser once they had a family. Some players thought he was sexist, I thought he was just old fashioned.

That was sexist.

Another reason that that view of Erastil is in error is because that kind of sexist "old fashioned" thinking never existed in Golarion. Golarion doesn't have the same baggage that Earth does.

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