So I was looking into a character idea, centered around the feat shield brace and a polearm of some kind with a tower shield. Due to this, I've been having a bit of a discussion with a friend over whether or not using the feat Tower Shield Specialist to reduce the armor check penalty would reduce the penalty on an attack. The character concept in question is a fighter based on the feats listed in the title.
Shield Brace:
Prerequisite(s): Shield Focus; base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.
Benefit(s): You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.
Link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shield-brace-shield-mastery
Tower Shield Specialist (feat):
Prerequisite(s): Shield Focus, Tower Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +11 or fighter level 8th.
Benefit(s): You reduce the armor check penalty for tower shields by 3, and if you have the armor training class feature, you modify the armor check penalty and maximum Dexterity bonus of tower shields as if they were armor.
Link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/tower-shield-specialist-shield-m astery
Any help in resolving this would be wonderful, thank you in advance.
So I was looking into a character idea, centered around the feat shield brace and a polearm of some kind with a tower shield. Due to this, I've been having a bit of a discussion with a friend over whether or not using the feat Tower Shield Specialist to reduce the armor check penalty would reduce the penalty on an attack. The character concept in question is a fighter based on the feats listed in the title.
Shield Brace:
Prerequisite(s): Shield Focus; base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.Benefit(s): You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.
Link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shield-brace-shield-masteryTower Shield Specialist (feat):
Prerequisite(s): Shield Focus, Tower Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +11 or fighter level 8th.Benefit(s): You reduce the armor check penalty for tower shields by 3, and if you have the armor training class feature, you modify the armor check penalty and maximum Dexterity bonus of tower shields as if they were armor.
Link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/tower-shield-specialist-shield-m asteryAny help in resolving this would be wonderful, thank you in advance.
All those shields have penalties so the "if any" could only be referring to ways to reduce penalties.
Seems quite simple, the reduction to your armor check penalty should absolutely reduce the penalties to attacking. It states "the shields ACP applies to attacks... so reduce that, and reduce your penalties. Mithril or any other acp reducing material would also help reduce it. I am currently running an antagonize build shield figher specialist, but if i had seen that before, i probably would have used that feat instead lol. ah well.
Well, the penalty you take is equal to whatever armor check penalty your shield is giving you.
The less armor check penalty your shield gives you, the less your shield is affecting your attack rolls. Inversely, the more armor check penalty your shield gives you, the more your shield is affecting your attack rolls.
I'm just curious if the Tower Shield Specialist Feat would stack with the Tower Shield Specialist Archetype.
Also:
Tower Shield Specialist Feat Linkified
**EDIT** Bonus Points if you wield a Nodachi.
i would say they do, the damage reductions are essentially bonuses, and have no types, so in theory should stack, obviously you cannot go into positive numbers but should be able to reach acp of 0
Time for a breakdown:
Full Plate = 6 ACP
Tower Shield = 10 ACP
10 + 6 = 16 ACP
Mithril Armor = -3 ACP
Masterwork Darkwood = -2 ACP
Tower Shield Specialist (Feat) = -3 ACP
Tower Shield Specialist (Archetype = -3 ACP (-1 per 4 levels after 3rd, maximum -6)
Armor Expert = -1
Comfort Armor Property = -1
3 + 2 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 13 ACP (scaling to 16 with Armor Training).
So, by the lategame, you can be a fully armored Tankasaurus Rex walking around with a Tower Shield granting +11 AC, a Full Plate granting +14 AC, and having a maximum Dexterity Bonus of +6 (since you take the worse of the two, and you can't make a Mithril Tower Shield per RAW). All without having your armor or shield hindering you worth a damn.
That's not even tacking things on like the Mobile Bulwark Style Feat Chain, Fighting Defensively, and so on.
Well, the penalty you take is equal to whatever armor check penalty your shield is giving you.
The less armor check penalty your shield gives you, the less your shield is affecting your attack rolls. Inversely, the more armor check penalty your shield gives you, the more your shield is affecting your attack rolls.
I'm just curious if the Tower Shield Specialist Feat would stack with the Tower Shield Specialist Archetype.
Also:
Tower Shield Specialist Feat Linkified
**EDIT** Bonus Points if you wield a Nodachi.
As far as I am aware they should. Since one's a feat the other's part of a class. It'd be a weird and mildly arbitrary ruling that they shouldn't, considering the Tower Shield Specialist archetype contains an ability called tower shield specialist.
That's included in the Darkwood property. Here's the Darkwood entry for reference:
This rare magic wood is as hard as normal wood but very light. Any wooden or mostly wooden item (such as a bow or spear) made from darkwood is considered a masterwork item and weighs only half as much as a normal wooden item of that type. Items not normally made of wood or only partially of wood (such as a battleaxe or a mace) either cannot be made from darkwood or do not gain any special benefit from being made of darkwood. The armor check penalty of a darkwood shield is lessened by 2 compared to an ordinary shield of its type. To determine the price of a darkwood item, use the original weight but add 10 gp per pound to the price of a masterwork version of that item. Darkwood has 10 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 5.
So, it clearly says that wooden items made from Darkwood are Masterwork, and then says it's factored into the final cost (10 gold per normal pound on top of masterwork price).
Now, a Darkwood Tower Shield would be valued at 630 gold (because you add the parenthetical mentioned above on top of the base price of the item, as evidenced by two existing item entries in Ultimate Equipment).
Ironically, a Mithril Tower Shield would be valued at only 1,030, so compared to a Darkwood version of a Tower Shield, it's not much more expensive, and gives you significantly better benefits. (Yes, before I said Mithril Tower Shields were impossible, but the Force Tower item exists, so clearly it's possible.)