Double Weapon Attack actions, and attacks in the same round

[Rylden]

I'm debating making a character based off of a samurai from a video game. This samurai uses a Nodachi and attacks with both the pommel and the blade, as well as unarmed strikes.

If you have Spear Dancing Style, you can treat a polearm as a double weapon. Double Weapons can be used in two hands attacking with both ends as TWF, or with two hands attacking with one end, dealing damage as a 2h weapon. This much is clear.

Assuming a BAB of +6 and higher, and only TWF you would get 3 attacks, 2 from a main hand, one from the off hand. Can you treat the double weapon as TWF for the first main hand, and offhand attack, then treat it as a 2h weapon to finish out your 3 attacks in the round?

If you can swap to two handed one end, does the weapon still have brace? Seeing you swapped from TWF with the weapon, to treat it as a 2h weapon.

[Johnny_Devo]

Short answer, no.

There's a FAQ on TWF and shenanigans to try and get two-handed bonus on one or more attacks within TWF. Essentially, because your off-hand is occupied for the entirety of TWF, you can't use that hand to also two-hand any of the TWF attacks from the "main part" of the weapon.

Quote:

If you can swap to two handed one end, does the weapon still have brace? Seeing you swapped from TWF with the weapon, to treat it as a 2h weapon.

Spear dancing style states "A weapon wielded in this way loses the brace and reach special weapon features."

So if you aren't wielding the weapon this way, it does not lose the brace and reach special weapon features.

[Rylden]

I see what your saying, so how about this.

Its a free action to drop weapons. Its a free action to change a hand grip on a weapon. and in your post its assuming you're using two different weapons, and not a double weapon. What action is it to end a "Style" feat, I believe I've read at some point its a swift or a free.

Without the style feat your can't wield the Nodachi as a double weapon. You would still have 2hands on the weapon from previously attacking with both ends. So then would you be able to attack with the weapon as a 2h weapon.

Edit:

I think I remain in the same boat after thinking on it... You could technically "drop" your armor spikes, and try to 2h your weapon. So it still wouldn't work.

[Gisher]

I agree with Johnny_Devo. I suppose you could use it as a double weapon and then switch to two-handing if you didn't try to get the extra attack from TWF (see this FAQ), but without the extra attack that isn't really going to be a useful strategy.

Edit: Cross-posted with Rylden.

[Gisher]

Rylden wrote:

I see what your saying, so how about this.

Its a free action to drop weapons. Its a free action to change a hand grip on a weapon. and in your post its assuming you're using two different weapons, and not a double weapon. What action is it to end a "Style" feat, I believe I've read at some point its a swift or a free.

Without the style feat your can't wield the Nodachi as a double weapon. You would still have 2hands on the weapon from previously attacking with both ends. So then would you be able to attack with the weapon as a 2h weapon.

Edit:

I think I remain in the same boat after thinking on it... You could technically "drop" your armor spikes, and try to 2h your weapon. So it still wouldn't work.

Whether you drop the style or not, TWF is a full-round action so the restrictions apply to all of your iterative attacks that round. The FAQ cited by Johnny_Devo would still apply.

[Rylden]

So basically a build with Spear Dancing, and TWF, and 3 attacks in a round. Using 2 of those attacks as TWF, and the last as a 2handed attack is never going to happen.

Thanks for the help guys, appreciate the speedy responses! :)

[Gisher]

Rylden wrote:

So basically a build with Spear Dancing, and TWF, and 3 attacks in a round. Using 2 of those attacks as TWF, and the last as a 2handed attack is never going to happen.

Yep. Paizo doesn't want anyone to get the benefits of both TWF and THF in the same round, and they've designed the rules to prevent it. You can keep looking for a loophole, but I suspect that they would quickly close it with a FAQ if you did.

Rylden wrote:

Thanks for the help guys, appreciate the speedy responses! :)

You are welcome.

[thaX]

You can still switch your grip to Two Handed once the full attack is done, so you can AoO's with the Two Handed wield.

[SodiumTelluride]

Think of it this way: With TWF and a BAB of +6 you get an attack with your main hand, an attack with your off hand, and an attack with your main hand. Therefore, each attack only has one hand available to it. Therefore, you can't get the 2h damage bonus.

[RSX Raver]

thaX wrote:

You can still switch your grip to Two Handed once the full attack is done, so you can AoO's with the Two Handed wield.

Yes, and if you are using a reach weapon you get your reach back for those AoO since you are no longer wielding it as a double weapon.