# 8 - 11 Forged in Flame part 2 Cleansed with Fire - GM Discussion

[Sebastian Hirsch]

Just ran our slot 0, it went relatively well no real open questions... it ended in a long discussion regarding the faction boons and the fact that the contract could cause a lot of internal strife.

The Exchange players might reasonably come to the assumption, that they really need Qualkami for their faction boon. While we are at it, as written, it seems like Guaril does not actually tell the mission unless you are actually willing to talk to him about the mission (some players might be very unwilling to interact with the guy, even with Exchanges players).

When it comes to the Liberty's Edge characters, they might really want to destroy the contract, which could negatively affect the mission if the players don't manage to place the evidence in suitable places and get the gorget (to be honest I expect most groups to accomplish that unless they want to make a deal with Xojject).

There is a way for everyone to get 2 PP and their faction boon, but it's a bit obscure and players could easily miss it, and likely will cause drama during the scenario.

-

To be honest I am not thrilled that the 4 player adjustment turned a lot of encounters into fights against a single enemy (those tend to swing one way or the other depending on party options), and that every encounter involved fire damage ( a group with communal resist energy could make encounters pretty easy and anyone who can deal frost damage will have a distinct advantage).
Considering the setting players will likely prepare and get energy resistance ways to deal frost damage. Mixing in some other challenges would have been appreciated (maybe a fire resistant construct or bound devil).

I am looking forward to running this outside of a slot 0 though, the scenario does offer a lot of RP potential and doesn't run too long. We needed about 3 1/2 hours, with 2 fights against Efreets (skipped the optional encounter do to time constraints).

[Terminalmancer]

Reading through this. Looks like fun! Bronze House Reprisal, only... smaller. I've got one question so far:

It looks like a problem crops up where you get one copy of a thing per person and if you have an animal companion/eidolon/familiar/etc. then too bad for them. The last time I know this came up, it was altitude fatigue (To Judge a Soul part 2). But in this case, the problem is the Elemental Plane of Fire and the consequences of not having this mcguffin amulet are 3d10 fire damage per round.

The precedent seems to be that the scenario should be run exactly as written, but is that intended here? I'm thinking for this one, I'll just give everyone a talisman, PC or no. Hopefully that's not expressly verboten.

Also: GMs, I suspect we should be careful about not forgetting to apply fire damage to summoned pets. I mention this mostly because it's something I know I'll have to remind myself of somehow, so maybe the reminder will help someone else as well.

[Nathan King 738]

Hey everyone,

My name is Nathan King and I am the author of #8-11 and I wanted to pop on the forums to answer some of the questions people had the adventure and see what I could do to clear up any small questions about the scenario. Any development side questions, I'll have to defer to John and/or Linda for direction.

I would like to preface my answers/suggestions by saying that when writing #8-11, John and I made sure to build in choices for the players to deal with. We wanted the players actions to mean something. It's not every day you get to travel to the City of Brass. However, each choice does come with it's own set of consequences. I will say, there is a win-win, but the players will need to think on their toes to figure it out.

On to the questions.

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

The Exchange players might reasonably come to the assumption, that they really need Qualkami for their faction boon. While we are at it, as written, it seems like Guaril does not actually tell the mission unless you are actually willing to talk to him about the mission (some players might be very unwilling to interact with the guy, even with Exchanges players).

It is quite possible for Exchange players to want to ally with Qalkami and that's OK. After all, she does have some pretty sweet connections that players can see in #8-09. Granted, if the Exchange players want to do this, they will have to "play by the rules" sort to speak to get the job done. Think of it kind of like "I scratch your back, you scratch mine"...Qalkami will help, but only after she gets what she wants.

Regarding the intro-box text, yes, you are correct. If the players don't want to tell Guaril the mission, then no, the players won't know what Guaril wants them to do. Personally, however, in my 200+ tables that I have ran for Pathfinder, I have yet to come across a player who doesn't want to talk to or even give the time of day to their faction leader(s). If a PC truly doesn't want to tell Guaril anything, you can go right into the 2nd piece of boxed text without giving up anything and then skip the 3rd. But I'd caution the players that by not interacting with their faction leader, they are at risk of losing a prestige point.

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

There is a way for everyone to get 2 PP and their faction boon, but it's a bit obscure and players could easily miss it, and likely will cause drama during the scenario.

Hmm, could you elaborate a bit on why you feel the ways to get the 2nd PP are a bit obscure? Forgive me if I sound a little blunt here, I don't mean to be, but as long as the PCs aren't "murderhobo'ing" the scenario and act like true Pathfinders, the PCs can easily complete 2 of the 3 requirements.

That's all I have time to answer right now, but I'll answer the rest this evening.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

Locally I see a lot of exchange players who are not all that happy about Guaril, and when I explained his plans in 8-09... well the prospect of starting a protection racket on another plane didn't seem very plausible to a lot of players.

So while I personally enjoyed the chance to play a sweating Guaril (and his plans are not quite as crazy in this scenario as in 8-09 by a country mile) some people really don't like him (and frankly the Exchange really seems like a faction consisting of two very different groups).

---

Sorry I wrote it in a bit of a hurry I was trying to say something about the faction specific boons, and getting those without any boxes checked (the conditions for the first and second PP here are absolutely fine).

Regarding the obscure conditions, and frankly my players / GMs really expect table drama here, is that a group with both Exchange and Libertys Edge characters only has the following way for everyone to earn their full faction boons:

Flamebinder's Jaw : Assuming that the PCs took the chance to speak with the Azer's (quite likely but not necessarily automatic), they will very likely get this one, unless they try to make a deal with Xojject which seems very unlikely. They have been sabotaging him for quite some time, it is pretty unlikely that any Exchange character would want him as an ally.

Azerite Pact: To be honest even without a character from any of the factions, that contract has a very high chance to be destroyed/amended by player characters. If you have a Liberty's Edge character at the Table it is extremely likely that they will want to do something to it that makes it impossible for them to give it to Qualkami.

So with the pact very likely gone or at least ammended the Exchange will not be able to secure Qalkami as liaison, Xojject will likely be defeated (of if they make a deal with him, getting that letter of credit will be extremely hard) or and this is the hard bit ... consider Anwar Alim as a liaison (the players will meet him very late in the scenario and they actually have to consider even offering the position to him) good call on not making this recruitment require a roll of the players think do ask him.

Asking the soon to be free Azer "do you want a job" seems reasonable under the circumstances.

---

Another issue that came up, but that might be a language barrier issue, is that players were initially not aware that Qualkami wants the Azerite Pact since she only mentions "local security contracts" in her briefing.
Might just be a good point for the GM to clarify that they have found something that might be of interest to her (since she mentions that she has plans to take over the estate) if the players asked about why she wants the contracts.. that can give them a hint.

---

I am pretty happy with the scenario as a whole and I agree with Terminalmancer it feels a bit like Bronze House (which is a good thing). Having run it for low tier and with 4 player adjustment, I was a little sad that in this and the previous scenario they party gets to fight Efreei with few to no changes (the higher level versions are a bit more interesting and diverse).

[TriOmegaZero]

Loved the high tier fights. My table decided that the direct route was the way to go. (Or rather were railroaded by the 5 Int 7 Wis paladin who detected evil and proceeded to begin smiting every fight.) Xojject gets VERY interesting with those couple class levels.

[andreww]

So I am prepping this and from my reading of it destroying the Pact actually risks Liberty's Edge members failing their faction goal. As written they have to amend the Pact, not destroy it.

Is that an editing oversight?

[crashcanuck]

Wouldn't destroying it count as "altering" it? I'll be running this in a month and so long as the Pact isn't turned over unedited then I think it should count.

[The Seldon Plan]

andreww wrote:

So I am prepping this and from my reading of it destroying the Pact actually risks Liberty's Edge members failing their faction goal. As written they have to amend the Pact, not destroy it.

Is that an editing oversight?

It mentions that merely destroying the contract would free the Azers only in principle, and that another Efreeti house would likely snatch them up and re-enslave them. They need a piece of paper saying they are free Azers.

[Silbeg]

On the Azerite pact.... if the LE characters are thinking of destroying it, perhaps give them a prof:barrister or the like to determine that destroying the pact is only a temporary measure. DCs should be decently high, maybe DC20 (like other things in this area)?

I was sort of surprised that there was no tier scaling in room B9 on most of the checks.

[The Seldon Plan]

I just noticed on page 15 the treasure lists a spell lattice in both tiers but no spells are mentioned being stored in them. The page of spell knowledge does mention which spell is stored in it.

[MisterSlanky]

The Seldon Plan wrote:

I just noticed on page 15 the treasure lists a spell lattice in both tiers but no spells are mentioned being stored in them. The page of spell knowledge does mention which spell is stored in it.

Our group noticed that while playing too. Considering the intent, I think Resist Energy is a good choice (that way the item works for the spontaneous casters, and the casters that aren't spontaneous, but are).

[pjrogers]

Question about Craterflame, the elemental barbarian - his stat block gives him a Str 24, Dex 12, and Con 23. Are these his raging or non-raging stats? His AC has a -2 rage penalty included, but it's not clear if the effects of rage are included elsewhere in the stat block.

[GreySector]

The sidebar on page 11 says:

Aided by Azers wrote:

Freeing the Azers (Area B6): The two groups of azers band together to escape with the Eye of the Red Worm acolyte. They leave behind a small cache of supplies hidden beneath the table along with a note that reads “Strangers, your help has been invaluable to saving the azers.” By selecting this option, members of the Liberty’s Edge faction automatically succeed at the faction objective in area B6.

I presume that the "small cache of supplies" consists of the items listed in the treasure section of Area B6. If so, then why are gold rewards reduced if the azers are evacuated? If not, then what is in the treasure cache.

I'm not thrilled that two of the three options available for enlisting the aid of the azers end up hurting the party (reducing treasure or boons).

[Woran]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

The sidebar on page 11 says:

Aided by Azers wrote:

Freeing the Azers (Area B6): The two groups of azers band together to escape with the Eye of the Red Worm acolyte. They leave behind a small cache of supplies hidden beneath the table along with a note that reads “Strangers, your help has been invaluable to saving the azers.” By selecting this option, members of the Liberty’s Edge faction automatically succeed at the faction objective in area B6.

I presume that the "small cache of supplies" consists of the items listed in the treasure section of Area B6. If so, then why are gold rewards reduced if the azers are evacuated? If not, then what is in the treasure cache.

I'm not thrilled that two of the three options available for enlisting the aid of the azers end up hurting the party (reducing treasure or boons).

I just read that section and I took it to mean that they loose out if they decide not to search the room. If they think: "Oh, the azers are already gone, lets skip this room", they will lose out.

[勝20100]

I played this one last month (4h slot).
Our group was my alchemist 5, a monk 6, a bard 5, an alchemist 6, and a hunter 7.
We went for the Azer, and our face managed to convince them that we were sent by the Cinderfurys and that they were all fired.
We got to the estate, went to the Azer and managed to convince them not to attack us and let them get out. We got to the library next, and disabled the trap to get in the rooms. We got out in the rest of the manor, and were pinned by the efreeti shooting us with scorching rays and quickened ones (and going invisible and using fire wall). Nobody, except me had any protection from fire, some thought the talisman was going to protect us. We hadn’t any time left for the game, so we skipped the rest of the adventure ; we would probably have managed to get that efreet ; but we would probably have been in trouble against the boss.

I was the gm for a game yesterday (4h slot).
My group was a wizard 8 (with deadly fireballs with various damage types), oracle with a boosted tiger 9, a bloodrager 6 and an investigator 6.
I take attention to mention to the player that the amulets where only protecting against the ambiant fire damage, not working against fire spells. As the scenario calls for the plane of fire traits, I also indicated that fire spells are boosted while water/cold are less effective.
My group went to the Azer, did not manage to bluff the people here, so after some talking the salamander called for attack. They manage to damage enough one of the guy that surrendered immediately, the rest melted to an lightingball, the ones still standing were dispatched right after that.
In exchange for information (in fact they used Intimidate to get them to cooperate, threatening to kill them if they didn’t cooperate, the scenario calls for diplomacy, so their 33 intimidate allowed them to get some information from them but not any help inside the manor). The azer that had surrendered was left alive and got away with the fighter azer still alive but unconscious.
They went to the manor, found the trace, but just wanted to barge in through the bigger front door. They got in without knocking, weapon at the ready. The efreet inside asked what was their business and what they were doing there. After a failed bluff, they started angering it (mentioning killing another efreet). That did it for him, and we started the combat. As his tactics calls for getting in melee, I had it enlarge itself and go in. A player (also a gm) mentioned the quickened ability, I had it throw it at the most aggravating character, even if it felt out of her tactics ; I knew they would handle it. The efreet died in an acidball and a couple of attacks ; and never did a second turn.
They hid the body under the table.
They then went to the Azers, talked through them and managed to avoid the fight and let them go.
With the efreet key and went to the library. Everyone but the bloodrager search but after some searching, he and the oracle went out to look into other rooms. I ruled that the key deactivate the traps but it reset after use, so the two searching character would have to deal with the trap if they got out. They got to the mephit as I thought they was plenty time left (thought 100 minutes, but it was 40 or something). The mephit tried to hit them with fire stuff, but they only took 1 damage ; as their tactics say they run away if the enemy seems immune to fire damage, I had them run away ; the characters let them go.
They regrouped and went to the boss. Few time was remaining. I thought he was attacking straight away but he tries to get info from the character. There was a look talk, and he started giving in, they started giving in. The never mentioned the Azerite Pact, so he didn’t attack straight away. As it is written he could be an ally of the Exchange, I mentioned that to the Exchange member. So in exchange for the jaw for the Azer, the gorget for Qhalmi, and becoming a contact for the Exchange, they let him live and get away. My thinking is that while speaking with them, he would use his constant detect magic to identify all the buff spells of the party (most would render his spell like abilities), and as they give all the info on what Qhalmi did, he would be able to plot his revenge for another time if he lived. The PC didn’t remark his battleaxe (he didn’t have enough strike to plan to use it) ; I don’t think he would have been ready to give it away.
With only 10~15 minutes left, that didn’t felt too much out of the realm of possibilities. They would have probably blasted him anyway.
I missed that the letter of credit is in his desk, thought it was one of the thing in the library. At the same time, the player could have kept the Azerite Pact as they had enough to please Mishalk, and he didn’t need her to be their contact ; so those two blank check boxes seems deserved.
With that I had time to do a proper conclusion ; mixed up the thing with the Sultana’s envoy a bit, but managed to get the rest right and gave them the important info about the metaplot (which I didn’t get as a player due to lack of time).