plane shift vs astral projection


Rules Questions


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

plane shift is a 5th level spell for clerics, a 7th level spell for wizards, is a standard action to cast, doesn't involve the danger of having a silver cord, and goes to any plane chosen.

astral projection is a 9th level spell for clerics, a 9th level spell for wizards, takes 30 minutes to cast, involves the danger of having a silver cord, and only goes to the astral plane.

plane shift seems to be superior to astral projection in every way. so why is it lower level?

Silver Crusade

messy wrote:

plane shift is a 5th level spell for clerics, a 7th level spell for wizards, is a standard action to cast, doesn't involve the danger of having a silver cord, and goes to any plane chosen.

astral projection is a 9th level spell for clerics, a 9th level spell for wizards, takes 30 minutes to cast, involves the danger of having a silver cord, and only goes to the astral plane.

plane shift seems to be superior to astral projection in every way. so why is it lower level?

Astral Projection wrote:
You project your astral self onto the Astral Plane, leaving your physical body behind on the Material Plane in a state of suspended animation. The spell projects an astral copy of you and all you wear or carry onto the Astral Plane. Since the Astral Plane touches upon other planes, you can travel astrally to any of these other planes as you will. To enter one, you leave the Astral Plane, forming a new physical body (and equipment) on the plane of existence you have chosen to enter.

You can use it to travel to any plane that borders the astral plane, which is almost all of them.

Astral Projection wrote:
If the second body or the astral form is slain, the cord simply returns to your body where it rests on the Material Plane, thereby reviving it from its state of suspended animation.

And, with the exception of having your cord cut, you can't die while astral projecting. It basically allows planar travel with almost none of the risks (yeah, you get two negative levels if you "die" but those are easily dealt with).


Plane shift is also kind of random as to where on the plane you wind up at.


There are zero published methods to cut a silver cord, and it (apparently) lets you enter any plane at any point you want. Plane Shift requires you to carry an appropriate focus for every destination plane.


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Astral Projection is near immortality. Not only is there no published means of cutting the silver cord, the user's real body is placed in temporal stasis. You don't even age while using the spell.


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
There are zero published methods to cut a silver cord, and it (apparently) lets you enter any plane at any point you want. Plane Shift requires you to carry an appropriate focus for every destination plane.

With no listed cost, all those attuned metal forks are included in a spell component pouch.

Silver Crusade

Jeraa wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
There are zero published methods to cut a silver cord, and it (apparently) lets you enter any plane at any point you want. Plane Shift requires you to carry an appropriate focus for every destination plane.
With no listed cost, all those attuned metal forks are included in a spell component pouch.

While true by RAW, I doubt that was the intention, I suspect there's no cost for them so DMs have leeway to make them as easy/hard to acquire as they wish. Still, that's pure conjecture. However, it does mean that if someone steals your component pouch (or even just one of the rods, say, the rod for the material plane), one could find themselves in a bit of a bind.


Jeraa wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
There are zero published methods to cut a silver cord, and it (apparently) lets you enter any plane at any point you want. Plane Shift requires you to carry an appropriate focus for every destination plane.
With no listed cost, all those attuned metal forks are included in a spell component pouch.

It sucks to be an all powerful wizard who can't get home because someone made a steal or sunder maneuver.

Personally I'd carry a spare return fork where Christopher Walken carried that gold watch in the Vietnamese prison camp.


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
There are zero published methods to cut a silver cord, and it (apparently) lets you enter any plane at any point you want. Plane Shift requires you to carry an appropriate focus for every destination plane.

In the Advanced D&D book Fiend Folio there is a race that had a sword that could.

Qithyanki wrote:
while a knight of 7th level and above will have (100%) a silver sword - a +3 two-handed sword which, if used astrally, has a 20% chance per melee round of cutting the silver cord (this does not effect mind barred victims). A supreme leader will wield a special silver sword which is +5, fully vorpal and effects mind barred victims.

In my old age I was thinking that a Vorpal sword could cut a silver cord, but after looking and finding not, I had to find the above quote. Now I know it's not Pathfinder Material, but it would be a good reference point.


The answer is because astral projection isn't really used to travel to another plane. That's merely a byproduct of the spell.

The real purpose of astral projection is to make you nearly invulnerable with a very low risk of death to yourself. You'll get some negative levels if your astral projection is destroyed, but those are easily dealt with. Honestly, finding a nice safe place to keep your real body while adventuring as an astral projection is probably one of the best things you could do as an adventurer.


Dr Styx wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
There are zero published methods to cut a silver cord, and it (apparently) lets you enter any plane at any point you want. Plane Shift requires you to carry an appropriate focus for every destination plane.

In the Advanced D&D book Fiend Folio there is a race that had a sword that could.

Qithyanki wrote:
while a knight of 7th level and above will have (100%) a silver sword - a +3 two-handed sword which, if used astrally, has a 20% chance per melee round of cutting the silver cord (this does not effect mind barred victims). A supreme leader will wield a special silver sword which is +5, fully vorpal and effects mind barred victims.
In my old age I was thinking that a Vorpal sword could cut a silver cord, but after looking and finding not, I had to find the above quote. Now I know it's not Pathfinder Material, but it would be a good reference point.

And that's from 3.5 and doesn't count in Pathfinder. Githyanki and their kin don't exist in this universe.


Githyanki were never open source.


Jeraa wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
There are zero published methods to cut a silver cord, and it (apparently) lets you enter any plane at any point you want. Plane Shift requires you to carry an appropriate focus for every destination plane.
With no listed cost, all those attuned metal forks are included in a spell component pouch.

The attuned metal fork is a focus(F), not a material component(M), It is not included in a spell component pouch. Eschew Component does not remove the need to carry tuning forks.


Claxon wrote:

The answer is because astral projection isn't really used to travel to another plane. That's merely a byproduct of the spell.

The real purpose of astral projection is to make you nearly invulnerable with a very low risk of death to yourself. You'll get some negative levels if your astral projection is destroyed, but those are easily dealt with. Honestly, finding a nice safe place to keep your real body while adventuring as an astral projection is probably one of the best things you could do as an adventurer.

I would never allow this in a home game, If I can't think of an alternative, I'd do what PFS does.... ban the bloody spell.


Snowlilly wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
There are zero published methods to cut a silver cord, and it (apparently) lets you enter any plane at any point you want. Plane Shift requires you to carry an appropriate focus for every destination plane.
With no listed cost, all those attuned metal forks are included in a spell component pouch.
The attuned metal fork is a focus(F), not a material component(M), It is not included in a spell component pouch. Eschew Component does not remove the need to carry tuning forks.

Actually, focus components of negligible cost are found in a spell component pouch. See page 213 of the CRB, last line of the paragraph "Focus". You are however correct regarding the Eschew Materials feat, which only refers to Material components.


Snowlilly wrote:
The attuned metal fork is a focus(F), not a material component(M), It is not included in a spell component pouch. Eschew Component does not remove the need to carry tuning forks.

The first half of that is flat out wrong. Non-costly focuses are included in the spell component pouch.

Quote:
Spell Component Pouch: A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn't fit in a pouch.

As for the second half, neither I nor anyone else ever said anything about Eschew Materials getting rid of the need for the forks, so I have no idea why you bothered to bring it up.

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