Spear Dancing Style + Magus Spell Combat


Rules Questions


If I built a magus with TWF, Weapon Focus: Nodachi and Spear Dancing style could they spell combat and fight with a Nodachi in the other hand. The following round return my hand back to my double weapon and attack with it as either a double weapon (both ends), or attack with 2 hands on a single end of a double weapon (Single end attack, two handed damage)

You could wield a Nodachi as if it were a double weapon, you can wield a double weapon in one-hand, but only attack with a single end.

Spell combat Nodachi in one hand, spell in offhand.

Double Weapons:
A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.


From what I can tell, there's nothing in that interaction that is actually allowing you to use the nodachi as a one-handed weapon.

The rule with double weapons only seems to say if you somehow wielded a double weapon in one hand, you can't use it as a double weapon.

Edit: As evidenced by this feat existing.


Rylden wrote:

...

You could wield a Nodachi as if it were a double weapon, you can wield a double weapon in one-hand, but only attack with a single end.

What makes you think that is true?

Edit: I see from Johnny_Devo's post where your confusion is coming from. That sentence doesn't say that you can wield any double weapon in one hand by using one end; it says that if you can wield a double weapon in one hand then you can only use one end.


In the spoiler above it lists the rule for a double weapon, which at the end states you can wield it in one hand, and only attack with a single end. Given it states that, where am I wrong in thinking I cant wield a double weapon in one hand, and only attack with one end?


It says "A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round."

It doesn't say "A creature can wield a double weapon in one hand but can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round."

It states the limitations that apply if you can wield a double weapon in one hand. It doesn't state that all double weapons can be wielded in one hand.


@Gisher

Ah, I see what your saying, I was reading it as though anyone could wield a double weapon in one hand, not IF you had the ability to do so here is what happens. Thanks for clearing that up! :)


Rylden wrote:

@Gisher

Ah, I see what your saying, I was reading it as though anyone could wield a double weapon in one hand, not IF you had the ability to do so here is what happens. Thanks for clearing that up! :)

You are welcome. :)

I do know of a few ways to pull off your scenario (wield a weapon one-handed while using Spell Combat and then use it as a double weapon next round).

(1) As Johnny_Devo mentioned, a quarterstaff is a two-handed double weapon so you can wield one end two-handed or use both ends for two-weapon fighting. If you take the Quarterstaff Master feat then you can also wield it one-handed for Spell Combat.

(2) A Taiaha can be wielded one-handed using one end because it is a one-handed weapon. But it is also a double weapon and so both ends can be used for two-weapon fighting. And like all double weapons you can wield one end using two-hands.

(3) The doru, sibat, shortspear, and trident are all one-handed weapons from the Spears Fighter Weapon Group. All can be wielded two-handed, and the Spear Dancing Style feat will let you wield one of them as a double weapon.

And if you really want to use a Nodachi with Spell Combat, a 13th level Mindblade can pull that off.


Johnny_Devo wrote:

From what I can tell, there's nothing in that interaction that is actually allowing you to use the nodachi as a one-handed weapon.

The rule with double weapons only seems to say if you somehow wielded a double weapon in one hand, you can't use it as a double weapon.

Edit: As evidenced by this feat existing.

Well, if we sink another three feats into this to get Spear Dancing Spiral, we can get Quarterstaff Master to work with any polearm we wield, thus allowing us to wield a polearm in one hand, and therefore we can Spell Combat with a Nodachi. With reach.

Three feats. Probably best sink two levels into fighter. Or get the training (quarterstaff master) special quality on your nodachi to save feat slots.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Since the end target is a Magus, the Staff Magus gets Quarterstaff Master as a bonus feat at 1st level.

Another option is to use a nodachi sized for a creature one size category smaller. Less damage and penalty to hit, but there are traits/feats/items which can help with both of those issues.


Thank you all for your information. End result was to end up with a nodachi, one handed and able to spell combat. Only way I've figured out how to do it was with Titan Mauler barbarian. Gonna be a trick to cast spells she raging but we shall see. Thanks again! :-)


Alternatively, there is a Magus Arcana listed on the d20psfrd site (I believe its 3rd party?) that lets you spend an arcane pool point to allow you to wield a 2 handed weapon and still use spell combat. Enrune Great Weapon. It's a bit of a drain on the pool till you get the Greater version that makes it last an hour per level, but it is an option.


Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Or get the training (quarterstaff master) special quality on your nodachi to save feat slots.

Which rules are these, and where might I find them?

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Throne wrote:
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Or get the training (quarterstaff master) special quality on your nodachi to save feat slots.
Which rules are these, and where might I find them?

Training is a +1 equivalent magic weapon special ability from Inner Sea Intrigue which allows the wielder access to a specific combat feat (Quarterstaff Master in the example above) when it is held.


CBDunkerson wrote:
Throne wrote:
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
Or get the training (quarterstaff master) special quality on your nodachi to save feat slots.
Which rules are these, and where might I find them?
Training is a +1 equivalent magic weapon special ability from Inner Sea Intrigue which allows the wielder access to a specific combat feat (Quarterstaff Master in the example above) when it is held.

Thanks very much.

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