paizo.com Recent Posts in Hell's Rebels moved to Westcrownpaizo.com Recent Posts in Hell's Rebels moved to Westcrown2016-12-28T20:32:20Z2016-12-28T20:32:20ZRe: Forums: Hell's Rebels: Hell's Rebels moved to WestcrownEsquizohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u3cv?Hells-Rebels-moved-to-Westcrown#52017-02-17T07:46:20Z2017-02-17T07:46:20Z<p>Well spoilers. Hell vengance last part is in ... Westcrown . Of course you can exchange kinthargo for westcrown but then again hell vengance happens in the same timeline simultaniously</p>Well spoilers. Hell vengance last part is in ... Westcrown . Of course you can exchange kinthargo for westcrown but then again hell vengance happens in the same timeline simultaniouslyEsquizo2017-02-17T07:46:20ZRe: Forums: Hell's Rebels: Hell's Rebels moved to WestcrownHaladirhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u3cv?Hells-Rebels-moved-to-Westcrown#42017-01-01T01:31:00Z2017-01-01T01:31:00Z<p>I would strongly recommend reading all six volumes of Hell's Rebels before you start working on moving it. You can do anything you like as a GM, but it's going to be a TON of extra work... to the point of effectively writing your own AP.</p>
<p>And, off the top of my head, I can't think how you would be able to adapt The Kintargo Contract (both the volume of the AP and the in-game item) to Westcrown.</p>I would strongly recommend reading all six volumes of Hell's Rebels before you start working on moving it. You can do anything you like as a GM, but it's going to be a TON of extra work... to the point of effectively writing your own AP.
And, off the top of my head, I can't think how you would be able to adapt The Kintargo Contract (both the volume of the AP and the in-game item) to Westcrown.Haladir2017-01-01T01:31:00ZRe: Forums: Hell's Rebels: Hell's Rebels moved to Westcrownzimmerwald1915https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u3cv?Hells-Rebels-moved-to-Westcrown#32016-12-30T09:23:01Z2016-12-30T01:22:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Gorbacz wrote:</div><blockquote> It would require an awful lot of changes. Not only is Westcrown much a different city than Kintargo, but it also doesn't have several features important for the AP as written, starting with the fact that unlike Kintargro, it is not isolated from the rest of Cheliax, making defending it much harder, if not impossible. </blockquote><p>You'd also have to rewrite quite a few assumptions about demographics, culture and public opinion. <i>Hell's Rebels</i> as written caps your supporters at about five thousand. That's all well and good for a city like Kintargo, where that number amounts to about half the population (more if you account for how violence tends to kill people) but it is simply not enough support to reach political critical mass in a metropolis like Westcrown. To make a revolution it's nice to have a majority, but you need about a third of the people supporting you, meaning that for a city like Westcrown you'd need about thirty thousand supporters. That dictates a sharp change in tactics. The Silver Ravens in Kintargo could get away with mostly appealing to an established liberal intelligentsia (that's the assumption the AP runs with anyway; it's certainly possible for the Silver Ravens to build a mass movement). But no such established liberal intelligentsia exists in a Westcrown hitherto cowed by the shadow plague, certainly not in numbers. Any revolutionary group in Westcrown would have to have its base in a mass movement, which means appealing to the masses. But there are no masses in Westcrown.
<p>That might seem like an odd statement to make, considering that the previous point depended on there being quite a lot of people in Westcrown. What I mean is that what is written about Westcrown in the setting material implies that Westcrown is not fertile ground for mass politics. This is a city that is <i>written for</i> setting stories about rarified (but also venal), elite-centered intrigue. So, much is made of its decadent, pining, left-behind aristocracy, as well as some truly horrifying grotesqueries and grand monuments to a better past. Everything else fades into the background. We can infer from the geography that Westcrown must be a major port, but you get a better sense of the <i>industry</i> from places like Korvosa. And speaking of industry, one gets the sense that not much gets done in Westcrown. There are a few markets, but more of those are detailed in Kintargo of all places (and most of the focus on exchange in Westcrown goes to describing the crushing weight of corrupt officialdom, something that also applies to the setting material's description of shipping). What's more, there's nothing like Magnimar's Golemworks, Korvosa's Ironworks, or Kintargo's Salt Works to suggest the burgeoning of large-scale industry and thus the basis for mass politics. Surely all the things that people use have to come from somewhere (unless they're <i>all</i> looted from the abandoned quarters), which implies abundant cottage/domestic industry, artisan manufacture, and small sweatshops. But we know from both history and contemporary events that people who work from home or in small shops 1) aren't the most driven to active politics and 2) are much more risk-averse than <i>revolutionary</i> politics would seem to demand, even if they have a utopian vision, which they probably don't.</p>
<p>Faced with all those obstacles, it's no small wonder that <i>Council of Thieves</i> was meant to accomplish very little, and that the Glorious Reclamation was written to take the city from without and remodel it by force. It's simply not fertile ground for either social revolution generally or the kind of story <i>Hell's Rebels</i> wants to tell in particular. Can you make it into such a thing? Of course you can. It'll be quite a bit of work for you the GM, but the APs provide you with some of the tools and you have your imagination. The question you should ask yourself is: is it worth it?</p>
<p>On the plus side, Manticce's mansion and the whole Vyre syndicate system is easy enough to just transplant into a <i>Rego</i>.</p>Gorbacz wrote:It would require an awful lot of changes. Not only is Westcrown much a different city than Kintargo, but it also doesn't have several features important for the AP as written, starting with the fact that unlike Kintargro, it is not isolated from the rest of Cheliax, making defending it much harder, if not impossible.
You'd also have to rewrite quite a few assumptions about demographics, culture and public opinion. Hell's Rebels as written caps your supporters at about five...zimmerwald19152016-12-30T01:22:31ZRe: Forums: Hell's Rebels: Hell's Rebels moved to WestcrownGorbaczhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u3cv?Hells-Rebels-moved-to-Westcrown#22016-12-29T07:34:30Z2016-12-29T07:34:30Z<p>It would require an awful lot of changes. Not only is Westcrown much a different city than Kintargo, but it also doesn't have several features important for the AP as written, starting with the fact that unlike Kintargro, it is not isolated from the rest of Cheliax, making defending it much harder, if not impossible.</p>It would require an awful lot of changes. Not only is Westcrown much a different city than Kintargo, but it also doesn't have several features important for the AP as written, starting with the fact that unlike Kintargro, it is not isolated from the rest of Cheliax, making defending it much harder, if not impossible.Gorbacz2016-12-29T07:34:30ZForums: Hell's Rebels: Hell's Rebels moved to Westcrowninshal chenethttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u3cv?Hells-Rebels-moved-to-Westcrown#12016-12-28T20:32:20Z2016-12-28T20:32:20Z<p>Is it possible to transport Hell's Rebels into Westcrown? It would be interesting to have the campaign take place several years after Council of Theives, but in the same city.</p>Is it possible to transport Hell's Rebels into Westcrown? It would be interesting to have the campaign take place several years after Council of Theives, but in the same city.inshal chenet2016-12-28T20:32:20Z