Fey and undeath

[Eviljames]

I'm running a campaign that has entered into the first world and will be there for a level or two. One of the next villains the players are going to face is a tribe of chaneque, lead by a vampire chaneque monk that has been kidnapping lots of other fey, as chaneque do.

On the first world, fey are effectively immortal their bodies reforming the next day after they are killed under most circumstances.

My question then, is: how does that interact with undeath? Their are no rules for it that I have seen so I'm collecting opinions on what will happen when the PC's eventually defeat and slay the monster. My players have already encountered and experienced this aspect of the First World and are definitely the types to be curious about the outcome.

A couple of possibilities come to mind.

a. The simplest solution is undeath bypasses the immortality just like being killed off the First World. and the villain is now dead forever.

b. Another simple solution is that the fey immortality comes back online once the vampire form is slain and the chaneque reforms as normal

c. An interesting possibility is that upon becoming undead the body still reforms the next day and their are now two versions of the villain. One a vampire and one alive.

d. Other possibilities might be results of whether or not the vampirism came as a result of a journey to the Material plane or not. Perhaps if he became a vampire on the Material it means (a.) but if he had been turned in the first world then (b.) or (c.)

e. Or something else entirely that I haven't thought of

Thoughts?

[Tinalles]

You need to think less about bodies, and more about souls.

When a mortal on Golarion dies, ordinarily their soul enters the Astral Plane and joins the river of souls headed for Pharasma's Boneyard. Undeath interferes with that, yanking the soul back into its body and polluting it with negative energy.

Fey are not part of the cycle of souls in the same way that mortals are, but they do have a soul which does depart their body when it perishes. So I see no reason why undeath wouldn't work 100% normally in their case. The only thing that has changed is that the soul has been yanked back from reforming on the First World instead of from the Astral Plane.

Worse, I suspect an undead fey creature who dies on the First World probably [i]reforms as an undead fey[/url]. The soul is still polluted with negative energy. So maybe you stake that vampire satyr, cut off his head, and spritzed him with holy water. So what? The soul has no place to go, and therefore reforms as an undead satyr the next day. Permanently getting rid of such a creature would be really, really hard.

Naturally the above applies to intelligent undead. Mindless undead lack souls. So you could totally kill off a satyr, raise him as a zombie, and then the re-formed normal satyr could show up to fight his own zombie a couple days later.

[Wolf Munroe]

I like option B myself. The vampirism short-circuits the fey immortality but once the vampirism ends, the fey immortality comes back online.

I would go with option C only if it were some kind of mindless undead. I think it's interesting if the body can become mindless undead and the creature can also be revived, but only if the personality only exists with the living creature.

Option A still makes perfect sense. Perhaps undeath is a major form of permanent death within the First World. Saying that changes the behavior of the First World substantially though.

Option B changes the First World the least, I think, while still giving plot hooks like "kill the undead fey so it can be alive again."

[Eviljames]

Tinalles wrote:

You need to think less about bodies, and more about souls.

When a mortal on Golarion dies, ordinarily their soul enters the Astral Plane and joins the river of souls headed for Pharasma's Boneyard. Undeath interferes with that, yanking the soul back into its body and polluting it with negative energy.

Fey are not part of the cycle of souls in the same way that mortals are, but they do have a soul which does depart their body when it perishes. So I see no reason why undeath wouldn't work 100% normally in their case. The only thing that has changed is that the soul has been yanked back from reforming on the First World instead of from the Astral Plane.

This was for the most part already understood. Although some of the names of places are helpful for future things. Although I was assuming that there was some sort of corruption with mindless undead as well.

Tinalles wrote:

Worse, I suspect an undead fey creature who dies on the First World probably [i]reforms as an undead fey[/url]. The soul is still polluted with negative energy. So maybe you stake that vampire satyr, cut off his head, and spritzed him with holy water. So what? The soul has no place to go, and therefore reforms as an undead satyr the next day. Permanently getting rid of such a creature would be really, really hard.

Naturally the above applies to intelligent undead. Mindless undead lack souls. So you could totally kill off a satyr, raise him as a zombie, and then the re-formed normal satyr could show up to fight his own zombie a couple days later.

I really like this idea it would make for a daunting foe indeed and an awful fate for the pixies he's been kidnapping

I also like the idea of someone fighting their own zombie self

Wolf Munroe wrote:

I like option B myself. The vampirism short-circuits the fey immortality but once the vampirism ends, the fey immortality comes back online.

I would go with option C only if it were some kind of mindless undead. I think it's interesting if the body can become mindless undead and the creature can also be revived, but only if the personality only exists with the living creature.

Option A still makes perfect sense. Perhaps undeath is a major form of permanent death within the First World. Saying that changes the behavior of the First World substantially though.

Option B changes the First World the least, I think, while still giving plot hooks like "kill the undead fey so it can be alive again."

Option B does allow the party to have a happy ending with rescuing the fairies. Which is always nice.

So a general consensus so far is that C only for mindless undead. I didn't think it was an idea that would get much traction but felt it was worth mentioning.

[Weirdo]

I would also lean towards option B.

Tinalles wrote:

Worse, I suspect an undead fey creature who dies on the First World probably reforms as an undead fey. The soul is still polluted with negative energy.

This is an interesting idea, but I would go with the reformed fey bearing some unsettling aspects as a sort of supernatural scarring from the experience rather than reforming as an undead. After all, a humanoid soul that's been turned into an undead creature and destroyed can move on to the afterlife normally or be resurrected - the lingering negative energy just means it can't be returned to life using Raise Dead.

If you're feeling adventurous, make a template for these fey. Dhampir are good inspiration - Constitution penalty, resistance to level drain, light sensitivity, minor necromantic spell like abilities, or even negative energy affinity could be involved.

[The Sideromancer]

You're saying that if I recruit a necromancer, I actually have a shot at reducing the numbers of the fey armies?

I should get some onyx to bribe with...

[Claxon]

. for interest

[Plausible Pseudonym]

The Sideromancer wrote:

You're saying that if I recruit a necromancer, I actually have a shot at reducing the numbers of the fey armies?

I should get some onyx to bribe with...

Plane Shift (water or fire elemental plane) is all you need to permanently kill fey. Not a great solution for a war, but a guerrilla campaign of ambush and terror could use it effectively.