Make the most of a Dark Elementalist....


Advice


I gather from the very sparse comments I can find that like most Kineticist archetype...this one isn't considered much of an option. However it fit's the flavor of a character concept I have been playing with for sometime, so well...I can't help but give it a try.

Basic elements....
Devilspawn Tiefling (pass for human) CE (back up character for Hells Vengence).
Fire element at 1st level, Void for Negative Blast at 7th level.
Basic concept has been that she uses souls to fuel her "Soulfire"....which is a form of infernal fire that can be used to punish even Devils.....a mutated form of Hellfire.

So far I'm thinking improved Initiative at 1st level, Toughness at 3rd level, Spell Penetration at 9th level, and Improved Spell Penetration at 11th level.

Any suggestions to make the most of this idea appreciated ;)


Just took a look at it. That's ... amazingly bad. Int mod instead of Con mod extra burn sounds like a fair substitution, but then for each point you/your party have to kill someone of equal or better CR, and then you probably really want to heal the nonlethal damage the point of burn left behind. It looks a pain to organise and it's just worse than the usual mechanic.

On the plus side? You're raising Int so you'll have more skills. Take unchained variant multiclass magus and you can get an arcane pool maybe. Or Amateur Investigator, Studied Combatant and kinetic blade to cut people up slightly better with your hellfire. Or the Kirin Style line perhaps for defence & offence that takes a few swift actions to set up.

Edit: on stats the base tiefling looks significantly better than a devilspawn for this. You want Int > Dex > Con most. Base tiefling gets +2 dex, +2 int, -2 cha. Devilspawn gets +2 con, +2 wis, -2 cha.


I chose Devilspawn prior to Dark Elementalist coming out....but chose to stick with it for the con buff since I'm still taking burn at times.
But will look at changing it up....

Given how much time the average party spends killing equal CR opponents......I'm hoping opportunities to exercise soul wrack won't be a problem :P

Healing non-lethal damage is actually a matter of an hour or so...less with the variant racial ability that allows you to heal double time...


Some fights have a big bad with CR > yours and some mooks of less than your CR, and you might want to spend more than one burn there. A team of lower CR guys is also possible if usually less resource-intensive. Very very often you have more than one fight in an hour, or at least you don't know for sure that you have an hour to rest up after the fight. Sometimes time has been so critical that spending more actions messing around with corpses is risky (in my home games anyway; no idea about Hells Vengeance.) You can't get elemental overflow started at the beginning of the day with burn unless you're trucking around dangerous prisoners. And you're getting nothing in return for this downgrade but some knowledge skills as class skills.

On top of that for some reason you get one good save to the base kineticist's two. With poor Fort and good but not great Constitution you might not want to be in melee range with the poisonous critters, so you might not rate the Amateur Investigator/Studied Combatant/Kinetic Blade idea I suggested very highly. Noting the all knowledge skills as class skills Kirin Style does fit though.

It's not hopeless. APs usually work with low-optimisation characters and break entirely with high-op, and you're playing an AP.

Edit: One trick I just noticed. The Spark of Life wild talent lets you summon an elemental of any of your elements. Paizo haven't published any for void/negative energy, but there is a 3rd party one, and it maximises negative energy spell or spell-like ability effects generated from close by. Kinetic Blast is a SLA.


As worded....it looks like Soul power is intended for a single sentient creature of a CR equal to level...I will have to talk to the GM and see if they would be willing to extend that to groups of mooks who's CR are equal.....

The shift in Saves was my biggest concern (wish they had left you with the good reflex save so it was just trading Con for Wis)...

I may be better off sticking to my original plan and just flavoring "Gather Power" as a cloud of souls being drawn into her to power her flames......and not worry about the Dark Elementalist....pity, the flavor was perfect 0.O

Wish the void domain had something like "Death Knell Aura" :P


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If you're allowed to use 3p for this, seriously check out the Dread Soul archetype from Kineticists of Porphyra III; it's literally this concept done right. All their blasts are treated as evil aligned, they can force other creatures to accept burn for them by scarring their souls, and eventually when they kill a creature they can make a soul stone out of it, letting them keep a creature's soul and continue to torment it in place of taking burn. Seriously, it's just a way better version of this archetype.


Generally we don't do third party....but I'll check it out ;)


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nighttree wrote:
Generally we don't do third party....but I'll check it out ;)

Totally understandable, I didn't at first either, but it was written by the same person who wrote the guide on the class itself, so I'd like to assume they knew what they were doing :D; here's the link to the archetype section in the guide, they have a review on it too.


I'd actually already run off to purchase it :P

First reading....it's definitely in line with what I'm looking for...as usual with 3rd party the concern is if it's balanced....I'll have to digest it a bit before presenting it to the GM....

Thanks for the lead Egoist ;)

Silver Crusade

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nighttree wrote:

I'd actually already run off to purchase it :P

First reading....it's definitely in line with what I'm looking for...as usual with 3rd party the concern is if it's balanced....I'll have to digest it a bit before presenting it to the GM....

Thanks for the lead Egoist ;)

Author here, and I thin I'd say it's balanced. EZG seemed to think so in his review of it, where he noted the mechanics behind it avoided letting you do cheesy infinite loops and such. If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask and I'll try and answer ASAPossible!


Many thanks N.Jolly ;)

I like to have any potential concerns answered in my own head before I present something like this to the GM....


So if I'm reading this right....you could use "Damning Drain" and "Soul burning Infusion" on the same target and really layer the burn on them...

Also...when you force someone to take burn, is the number of non-lethal HP based on the Kineticists level ? or the victims level ???

Silver Crusade

nighttree wrote:
So if I'm reading this right....you could use "Damning Drain" and "Soul burning Infusion" on the same target and really layer the burn on them...

That is correct, both of them stack with each other to combine the soul burning power here, although there is the obvious risks to using damning drain (because giving burn without a save would have been too good).


OOppsss...I was adding another question while you answered the last :P

Silver Crusade

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nighttree wrote:

OOppsss...I was adding another question while you answered the last :P

No problem, the burn and non-lethal damage is based on the target's level/hit dice, not your own.


N.Jolly....another question if I may....

In the class guide linked above....you said "Soul Burning Infusion (**)
Element(s) universal; Type substance infusion; Level 3; Burn 2
Associated Blast any
Saving Throw Will negates
While thematic, this won’t be helpful in most situations except against opposed kineticists."

And.....

"Soul Burning Infusion, Improved (**)
Element(s) universal; Type substance infusion; Level 8; Burn 4
Prerequisite(s)
Associated Blast any
Saving Throw Will negates
This is easily better for an NPC, as most PCs can’t take advantage of this ability properly."

Can you explain the bolded comments ?
I don't understand why it would be useful only against opposed kineticists ? or PC's not being able to take advantage of it ?


This is looking like the best bet for the concept.....I'm eager to see how it play's ;)

Silver Crusade

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nighttree wrote:

N.Jolly....another question if I may....

In the class guide linked above....you said "Soul Burning Infusion (**)
Element(s) universal; Type substance infusion; Level 3; Burn 2
Associated Blast any
Saving Throw Will negates
While thematic, this won’t be helpful in most situations except against opposed kineticists."

And.....

"Soul Burning Infusion, Improved (**)
Element(s) universal; Type substance infusion; Level 8; Burn 4
Prerequisite(s)
Associated Blast any
Saving Throw Will negates
This is easily better for an NPC, as most PCs can’t take advantage of this ability properly."

Can you explain the bolded comments ?
I don't understand why it would be useful only against opposed kineticists ? or PC's not being able to take advantage of it ?

Sure, the meaning there is that soul burning against opposed Kineticist puts them closer to their burn limit, as aside from that it's simply piling on more damage, and non-lethal at that. I think I'd have included a caveat for it like with the nihilicist, but hindsight.

And the second simply means that burn hurts a PC more than it hurts an NPC due to how long lasting it is. It's still viable, it's just more useful for a fire and forget NPC here.

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