MadScientistWorking Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro |
MadScientistWorking Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro |
The spell doesn't become legal. You simply can't cast it, and you (currently) don't get a replacement.
Actually, from the last time this conversation came up yes it does in fact make it legal. Admittedly, in this case its obvious that they omitted the replacement but still would not the first time they've banned something and then allowed it.
BigNorseWolf |
Actually, from the last time this conversation came up yes it does in fact make it legal.
you're going to have to specify what "the last time" was.
This is not how additional resources work. They do not need to keep re-banning the spell every time a new arcane caster class comes out for example. Permanency is not "not legal unless allowed by another source" it's not legal.
MadScientistWorking Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro |
MadScientistWorking wrote:
Actually, from the last time this conversation came up yes it does in fact make it legal.you're going to have to specify what "the last time" was.
This is not how additional resources work. They do not need to keep re-banning the spell every time a new arcane caster class comes out for example. Permanency is not "not legal unless allowed by another source" it's not legal.
The fact that as I pointed out that there are legal archetypes and other materials that include banned material as a central tenant of the gimmick making it wishy washy as to whether or not something is permanently banned. As I said earlier it needs to be fixed as to be consistent because right now it isn't.
BigNorseWolf |
The fact that as I pointed out that there are legal archetypes and other materials that include banned material as a central tenant of the gimmick making it wishy washy as to whether or not something is permanently banned.
No.
What you told me was that actually (as if you were correcting me on something) that it was decided that if a legal archetype gave you something that wasn't legal that the archetype made it legal anyway. That is a completely different argument than what you have above
This has happened before
This has happened before and you got the illegal cookie
Are two VASTLY different arguments.
Absent any examples of that happening what I said stands: banned things are still banned. A backdoor to them just opens onto a brick wall. Having a way to the thing beyond having it on your class spell list is no different than having it on your class spell list: you still can't have it.
As I said earlier it needs to be fixed as to be consistent because right now it isn't.
It needs to be fixed. It's a pretty low priority fix. You don't need to bump it up the ladder by making an argument for it doing something it doesn't. Right now someone at nearly beyond pfs levels simply doesn't get something. Thats all.
Belafon |
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My suspicion is that since I wrote those subdomains, I skimmed those six pages far too quickly during Additional Resources review and missed the addition of permanency. It should not be legal, and we'll just need to devise a good replacement. You're welcome to make suggestions.
At first I was leaning towards fabricate but that might get a little exploitable with the rite domain power. Major creation would probably work well.
P.S. Christmas Day, John. Take a vacation!
Kalindlara Contributor |
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You're welcome to make suggestions.
The spell that springs most readily to mind is commune.
-Core (no extra Additional Resources required)
-same level
-fits the theme of Rites
-requires a material component which can benefit from the subdomains power (as permanency did)
-fairly useful in PFS
Thoughts? ^_^
Lukas Stariha |
John Compton wrote:You're welcome to make suggestions.The spell that springs most readily to mind is commune.
-Core (no extra Additional Resources required)
-same level
-fits the theme of Rites
-requires a material component which can benefit from the subdomains power (as permanency did)
-fairly useful in PFSThoughts? ^_^
I second Commune as the replacement.
Belafon |
John Compton wrote:You're welcome to make suggestions.The spell that springs most readily to mind is commune.
-Core (no extra Additional Resources required)
-same level
-fits the theme of Rites
-requires a material component which can benefit from the subdomains power (as permanency did)
-fairly useful in PFS
Ooh, I like this! I was looking at wizard (and not cleric) spells to replace the wizard-only permanency. But commune is a great fit.
MadScientistWorking Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro |
It needs to be fixed. It's a pretty low priority fix. You don't need to bump it up the ladder by making an argument for it doing something it doesn't. Right now someone at nearly beyond pfs levels simply doesn't get something. Thats all.
Actually, it was more the general impression that I got that the section was kind of skimmed over or just an error in writing and not wanting to use a domain that looks legal but for reasons shouldn't have been legal. For example, the Glory domain grants you something so illegal that the book its from isn't in the additional resources (Mythic Adventures). I probably could have worded that better but Ive been suffering from low level migraines and headaches so Im not exactly coherent sometimes.
Ascalaphus Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden |
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Commune is actually pretty good in PFS because having a written scenario gives the GM something to fall back on to answer questions.
"Are we likely to face evil outsiders in battle during this adventure?"
*GM looks at the remaining encounters in Day of the Devil Demon Dameon Qlippothmass edition*
"Yes? Okay guys, give me half an hour to fill in my other top-tier spell slots and then I'm good to go..."
Lorewalker |
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Tallow wrote:Tell that to the GMs.Ragoz wrote:And it's permanent.I think Raise Dead is a better option. It fits all the recommendations for Commune but with a price discount much more in line with Permanency.
I think Raise Dead is much more iconic and when you need it you really need it.
Barbarian casts greataxe and dispels Raise Dead.
Rei Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere |
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Rysky wrote:Barbarian casts greataxe and dispels Raise Dead.Tallow wrote:Tell that to the GMs.Ragoz wrote:And it's permanent.I think Raise Dead is a better option. It fits all the recommendations for Commune but with a price discount much more in line with Permanency.
I think Raise Dead is much more iconic and when you need it you really need it.
Wouldn't that count more as Spell Sunder?
Rysky |
Lorewalker wrote:Wouldn't that count more as Spell Sunder?Rysky wrote:Barbarian casts greataxe and dispels Raise Dead.Tallow wrote:Tell that to the GMs.Ragoz wrote:And it's permanent.I think Raise Dead is a better option. It fits all the recommendations for Commune but with a price discount much more in line with Permanency.
I think Raise Dead is much more iconic and when you need it you really need it.
"Okay, that's it! All you lil bastards back into the ground!"
Drahliana Moonrunner |
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Lorewalker wrote:Wouldn't that count more as Spell Sunder?Rysky wrote:Barbarian casts greataxe and dispels Raise Dead.Tallow wrote:Tell that to the GMs.Ragoz wrote:And it's permanent.I think Raise Dead is a better option. It fits all the recommendations for Commune but with a price discount much more in line with Permanency.
I think Raise Dead is much more iconic and when you need it you really need it.
More like Life Disjunct, since we are talking about an instantaneous effect.
Steven_Evil |
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Minna Hiltula wrote:More like Life Disjunct, since we are talking about an instantaneous effect.Lorewalker wrote:Wouldn't that count more as Spell Sunder?Rysky wrote:Barbarian casts greataxe and dispels Raise Dead.Tallow wrote:Tell that to the GMs.Ragoz wrote:And it's permanent.I think Raise Dead is a better option. It fits all the recommendations for Commune but with a price discount much more in line with Permanency.
I think Raise Dead is much more iconic and when you need it you really need it.
It's obviously some kind of delayed Counterspell SLA.
Caster: "I roll Spellcraft to see what he's casting."GM: "It's Raise Dead"
Barbarian: "Ok guys, I'm going to cast Greataxe and counter it next turn."
Azothath |
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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:Minna Hiltula wrote:More like Life Disjunct, since we are talking about an instantaneous effect.Lorewalker wrote:Wouldn't that count more as Spell Sunder?Rysky wrote:Barbarian casts greataxe and dispels Raise Dead.Tallow wrote:Tell that to the GMs.Ragoz wrote:And it's permanent.I think Raise Dead is a better option. It fits all the recommendations for Commune but with a price discount much more in line with Permanency.
I think Raise Dead is much more iconic and when you need it you really need it.
It's obviously some kind of delayed Counterspell SLA.
Caster: "I roll Spellcraft to see what he's casting."
GM: "It's Raise Dead"
Barbarian: "Ok guys, I'm going to cast Greataxe and counter it next turn."
Cleric of Pharasma: "just charge in and cast it NOW and kill two birds with one stone (axe)." {counterspell by penetrating trauma}
Azothath |
Rites subdomain. Component cost for casting permanency reduced by 20%. +1 to +3 CstrLvl for duration/dispelling for some spells 3+CL times per day. Replacement Domain Spells: 1st—sanctify corpse UM , 5th—permanency, 8th—binding.
Magic domain (the parent) has Domain Spells: 1st—identify, 2nd—magic mouth, 3rd—dispel magic, 4th—imbue with spell ability, 5th—spell resistance, 6th—antimagic field, 7th—spell turning, 8th—protection from spells, 9th—mage's disjunction.
3rd - Collaborative Thaumaturgy. Arcane Concordance would have been nice for Divine. Replaces Dispel Magic.
6th - Permanent Image. Replaces Antimagic Field.