Tsuto and charm person

Rise of the Runelords

Grand Lodge

My player's subdued Tsuto and will be charming him. So at this point he'll freely give info? But what should I give? I don't want to give my player's too much info. Specifically, all of Nualia's story is revealed once they find her journal at the end of book one.

So thoughts on what specifically should/shouldn't be revealed?

Grand Lodge

So for context, last week we ran out of time after my player's subdued Tsuto. This is the what I just sent them that they are able to find out just from Ameiko / his Journal (the names that aren't specifically RotRL characters are my PCs' names).

After Tsuto's defeat (being knocked unconscious and bound until further helpless) you found Ameiko barely concious but in a bad state (Gemara gives her a quick once over and is surprised to see she is conscious with wounds as dire as hers). After some healing, she's looking better but still distraught over her brother's treachery and personal betrayal.

Ameiko relays that Tsuto and several other mercenaries were led by Nualia (you recall this is the name of the previous priest's daughter that was assumed to have died in the fire) and hinted that she has "big plans" for Sandpoint's future. Tsuto warned Ameiko that she didn't want to be in town when those plans came to fruition, and he offered her to join him and his cronies (her words, not his) at Thistletop. She recoiled at the suggestion and and slapped him in shock that he'd sunk to such a low. He responded by unleashing his goblins on her. They overwhelmed her and left her here.

After she regains some of her strength, she is eager to find her father to warn him of her brother's betrayal. At this point, Kravar interrupts and tells her of what's happened to Lonjiku. She insists on seeing him herself. Upon seeing her father blistered and burned, encased in glass, she takes in the sight stoically, shedding only a single tear.

She looks around the rest of the Glassworking Room seeing the carnage caused by the goblin fun--the pools of cracked glass poured molten and cooled too quickly that goblins poured over workers' corpses trying to replicate Tsuto's "masterpiece", the half-burned torsos of some of the workers that had been shoved into the furnaces, the myriad of tools battered and broken from use as makeshift clubs, eating utensils, or shoved into various orifices of the dismembered workers... She sighs knowing this is all her responsibility now as the last upstanding member of the Kaijitsu family. She'll have to see to the grisly work of getting this cleaned up and back in working order. Sandpoint depends on the Glassworks and without it much of the trade would die up then the town along with it. A future she never really wanted for herself, she finds herself as Sandpoint's newest member of the nobility.

She thanks you for your help in both capturing her brother and rescuing herself. Even though she and her father didn't see eye-to-eye and had barely a kind word for each other in the last few years, she never wished this for him. While she knows there was nothing you could have done, she wishes there could have been some way to save him. She lets you know that whenever you find yourself in Sandpoint, you'll always have meal and bed waiting at the Rusty Dragon.

*cut to Tsuto*

Looking through Tsuto's person reveals a small, leather-bound booklet contains two dozen parchment pages, most of which has been filled with maps of Sandpoint or erotic drawings of a rather beautiful woman. Squall and Keladry both recognize her as Nualia, the presumed-dead adopted daughter of Father Tobyn. The maps each depict different attack plans. The first set shows the attack plans for a group of 30 goblins—one of these battle maps is circled--you easily recognize it as the attack the goblins made on Sandpoint during the closing ceremony of the festival. Of more pressing concern are the next several pages, which illustrate an assault on Sandpoint by a force of what appears to be 200 goblins. None of these are circled, and while many are scratched out as if they’ve been rejected, you get the ominous feeling that this may be what Ameiko was told about when Tsuto warned her of Nualia's "big plans". The drawing of Nualia on the last page of the book portrays Nualia in a very different manner--it portrays her with a single demonic hand, bat wings, horns, a forked tail, and fangs. Three short passages in Tsuto’s journal contain information that is of particular interest (click link to see the journal--not really safe for work, hence me not attaching it directly). CLICK HERE

Gemara steps up to Tsuto's unconscious body. "We need more information." I'm quite good at getting what I want out of people, she thinks to herself. Giving a quick prayer to Calistria she casts a spell at him and says, "I think he's ready to be woken up." While Denk (Brad if I remembered the wrong name) and Squall are a bit dubious, Keladry and Kravar know that at least for the next hour, Tsuto will find Gemara rather charming. After being brought back to consciousness and some quick interjection from Gemara about the misunderstanding that just transpired between the lot of you, Tsuto is willing to talk.

We'll start here tomorrow.

Some of it is lost without the italics, but it get's the gist across.

Some thoughts:

Most of what he knows is available or inferable anyway. Nualia is alive. She wants revenge against Sandpoint and she is looking for something (he doesn't know what) powerful beneath Thistletop.
If we look at what he does know - it doesn't amount to very much more:

Details on Lyrie and Orik. I can't imagine he cares enough to be anything other than a little dismissive of the mercenaries.

Goblin numbers. I don't imagine he holds them in any higher regard than the mercs and will again be rather dismissive.

A path to Thistletop - maybe enough to give a +2-+4 on the survival check if they need it?

The trapped bridge - but only if they specifically ask for hazards?

Peppered with adulation of Nualia to the point of inducing nausea, how much more does he actually know? and how much more are your players going to want to ask :D

He doesn't necessarily know all of what happened to Nualia, she doesn't strike me as the sharing type. He might be able to fill in some background on her time in Magnimar - foreshadow Xanesha a little? doesn't have to be accurate or detailed as his source of information isn't necessarily reliable. He trusts Nualia, but the reverse isn't true.

First a couple anal retentive rules observations. Charm person (I assume this is the spell or power in question) doesn't make the subject your willing thrall, just makes it perceive you as a friend in the best light. Second, given the pc's were just trying to kill him, I'd give Tsuto the +5 save bonus described in the spell description. And it's a technicality but I don't think Tsuto can be charmed while unconscious (which is how I read your spoiler.)


Assuming Tsuto fails the save, he will view the pc who charmed him as a trusted ally but not any of the pc's who may have been stabbing him with sharp nasty objects. So he doesn't respond well to any questioning from them. Also, just because he perceives the charming pc as a trusted friend doesn't mean he loses his loyalty/love for Nualia. So if one of your friends asks you to betray another friend do you do it? Probably not. Even if confronted with evidence in his diary, he may try to pass it off as a work of fancy or speculation, trying to protect Nualia.

He'd be more than happy to rant on about his father and how much he hated him. He might willingly confess to what's happened in the Glassworks - not much sense in denying it. He might also provide information about Bruthazmus or the goblins or Lyrie or Orik - his loyalty to them is low (or hostile in the case of the bugbear.)

If the pc's are clever, he might be persuaded to lead them or give them directions to Thistletop. If for instance they made comments symapthetic to Nualia or indicate they want to meet with her. He would be reluctant to discuss the Cathedral of Wrath, Elyrium, Malfeshnekor, etc. as those are all tied to Lamashtu and Nualia's quest which is the defining goal of her existence. Again if the pc's are clever they might get him to brag about Nualia, how she sacrifices the goblins in her temple or how she's allied with demonic powers, etc.

Grand Lodge

Latrecis wrote:

First a couple anal retentive rules observations. Charm person (I assume this is the spell or power in question) doesn't make the subject your willing thrall, just makes it perceive you as a friend in the best light. Second, given the pc's were just trying to kill him, I'd give Tsuto the +5 save bonus described in the spell description. And it's a technicality but I don't think Tsuto can be charmed while unconscious (which is how I read your spoiler.)

** spoiler omitted **

Of course it doesn't, but per the book, he's more than willing to spill his guts (well, his verbal guts) if the PCs are able to magically persuade him (i.e. charm being the specific example). There's nothing anywhere that says an unconscious person can't be charmed.

And at this point he doesn't get the +5 for being threatened/attacked. Combat is over, he's been subdued, they rescued his sister, then moved back to him. Combat is definitely over. Unless you want to count the spell itself as an attack then it would just be pointless as anyone would be considered "being attacked" when targeted by charm person.

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Hmmm, the AE version says that he gives the pc's nothing unless they use magical persuasion. It doesn't necessarily say what he would or would not share if charm person is used. Which is what I thought you were asking about in the original post...

Whether an unconscious person can be targeted is likely a moot point since the charm has no affect until he's conscious but... The spell provides a bonus to the save based on the target's awareness of his surroundings so that suggests the spell relies on the target actually being aware of his surroundings.

Speaking of which, the spell actually says "If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw." If you and your buddies use lethal means to knock me unconscious (like stabbing me with swords or shooting me with arrows) in what is an obvious effort to kill me and I wake up surrounded by you, perhaps bound or restricted from moving/fleeing, it's hard not to see that as "threatening." If you want to rule the bonus only applies if initiative order is in play and combat is actually occurring, your table, your call. But that seems an awfully narrow interpretation. And I assume you and your players will be equally comfortable with that interpretation when NPC's use the spell on them.

GM: Roll a will save.
PC: Why?
GM: The lich cast charm person on you.
PC: I get a bonus to save right? He's only been trying to kill us for the past 6 months. He cast horrid wilting and meteor swarm on us two minutes ago before we ran away.
GM: Nope. We haven't rolled initiative yet so he's not threatening you.
PC: ????

My players charmed Tsuto, but then got antsy and restarted combat with Jim before knocking him unconscious. He hasn't revealed much beyond what his journal had yet. They are out of spell slots but will probably try charming him tomorrow to get more information out of him.

Since I can't find anything preventing charming someone who has already broken out of a previous casting, I think he's probably going to try and hang himself per his described behavior. The only question in my mind is if he CAN do it from the Sandpoint jail. I'm leaning towards yes, barring the PCs specifically taking precautions to prevent that.

Otherwise, he will at bare minimum spill what he knows about the command structure and other mercenaries I guess, given that he fails his save and loses a charisma check.

Sovereign Court

in the anniversary edition there is a paragraph for this.
"If the PCs secure Tsutos cooperation bia magic, he can be a font of information, revealing the entirety of nualias plans, her current location, and even information on thistletops layout and defenses. if confronted about his joirnal he confirms nualias plan to offer sandpoint as a burning sacrifice to lamashtu in return for a transformation from the angelic to the demonic, a ritual shes already begun by burning father tobyns remains. He doesnt know much about the creature she calls malfeshnekor only that its some monster she believes is imprisoned somewhere below thistletop amd that releasing and recrukting it will make their coming raid on sandpoint a garunteed success"

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