RotR Character Variations from the App


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion


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Hey, just so people are aware, the app now features variants of the original cast of RotR. The slight changes can be found here.

Now the obvious questions:
Is there any chance to get them available as character sheets for the physical card game?

Also, in the long run, whats the plan for custom content in the app? Is it supposed to stay there or will it come to the physical card game?

On a related note, there is some major rebalancing going on in the app. Might we see another errata that brings the RotR rules in line with the state-of-the-art wording at some point, updating the balance as well?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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We have just barely discussed the potential for bringing content introduced in Pathfinder Adventures back to the tabletop game. As far as character sheets for their alt characters go, while it's possible we could do those, I would rather put the same resources (primarily me, actually) on the DriveThru errata decks and PACG season decks.

I'm not sure I understand your last question. The mechanics Obsidian is using should be up-to-date with the latest rules and all but perhaps the very newest FAQs. Even the rules text presented in the Obsidian game should be current. (Note that the rules presented within the app while current are not *identical* to the MM rules because some of the things you need to be told to actively set up and arbitrate tabletop play are just handled automatically in the app—for example, we don't have tell you to discard the top card of the blessings deck at the start of each turn, because the game does it for you. Similarly, the Obsidian rules don't need to include all the fiddly bits that tell you when you can and can't do certain things because the game itself tells you when you can and can't do those things. There are also intentional variations in a few cases where they present things a bit differently—the way "display" works, references to the vault instead of the box, and a couple other things.)


Vic Wertz wrote:

... I would rather put the same resources (primarily me, actually) on the DriveThru errata decks and PACG season decks.

...

You made my day!


Vic Wertz wrote:

We have just barely discussed the potential for bringing content introduced in Pathfinder Adventures back to the tabletop game. As far as character sheets for their alt characters go, while it's possible we could do those, I would rather put the same resources (primarily me, actually) on the DriveThru errata decks and PACG season decks.

Thanks for the answer Vic, I agree with these priorities.

Sorry for the other question, I used the word rules where I actually meant cards:
I wanted to ask if there might be another errata that brings the RotR *cards* in line with the state of the art wording, as well as an optional rebalancing errata that change the cards in a way that the app does.
I'm refering to balancing changes like the ones to the bandit, holy candle, acid arrow, and so on.
My guess would be that its unlikely at this point, but I'd still would like whats your take on that. I'm not sure if the errata decks you'd like to work on to still includes RotR or just the newer sets.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I'd like to make use of this thread, since we're discussing the flow of content back from virtual to real, to say that I'd like to see some of the cards that have been produced for PfAdventures made into physical cards, perhaps purchasable through DriveThru. I bet I'm not the only one who wants a Blacksmith's Son.


Doppelschwert wrote:
I'm refering to balancing changes like the ones to the bandit, holy candle, acid arrow, and so on.

Is the change to bandit that they basically made him a veteran, to make the Guard Tower and such more challenging? Probably a good change.

The change to Holy Candle is very specific to the digital game, and is an example of a change that shouldn't be ported back into the card game. The digital game lets you build a party in which every character has a Holy Candle. This is the reason the HC has to be banish instead of bury in the digital game.

Acid Arrow is stronger in the digital game, right? (d10+1 vs 2d4 ?) Not sure we need that.


elcoderdude wrote:
Doppelschwert wrote:
I'm refering to balancing changes like the ones to the bandit, holy candle, acid arrow, and so on.

Is the change to bandit that they basically made him a veteran, to make the Guard Tower and such more challenging? Probably a good change.

Yes, the Bandit is veteran and its difficulty increases with the scenarios adventure deck number.

elcoderdude wrote:

The change to Holy Candle is very specific to the digital game, and is an example of a change that shouldn't be ported back into the card game. The digital game lets you build a party in which every character has a Holy Candle. This is the reason the HC has to be banish instead of bury in the digital game.

Are you sure its only about that? I don't have a quote, but my impression was that mike was not very happy about the holy candle in hindsight, since it is a no-brainer and easily one of the best items in the whole set.

Note that I asked about an optional errata for these kinds of cards - most of these changes are not necessary at all for the physical game. However, my assumption here is that the app changed some cards that Lone Shark would do differently if they were to make RotR with todays knowledge.
If that is the case, I'd definitely be interested in knowing what those changes are, and how it could improve my home games by adapting them for the physical version. On that basis, I think it would be cool to have an optional errata, if ressources allow for it. Imho, there is no point to debate which card would warrant a change and which ones do not - since its optional, you would be free to only use the cards you want to change in the end anyway.


Doppelschwert wrote:
elcoderdude wrote:

The change to Holy Candle is very specific to the digital game, and is an example of a change that shouldn't be ported back into the card game. The digital game lets you build a party in which every character has a Holy Candle. This is the reason the HC has to be banish instead of bury in the digital game.

Are you sure its only about that? I don't have a quote, but my impression was that mike was not very happy about the holy candle in hindsight, since it is a no-brainer and easily one of the best items in the whole set.

Vic explaining this.


elcoderdude wrote:
Vic explaining this.

"But when Obsidian incorporates multiplayer..."

HAHAHA!!


:)

The truth is, though, because the app lets you swap characters between parties, you can already create a party where every character has a Holy Candle...

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Doppelschwert wrote:

Sorry for the other question, I used the word rules where I actually meant cards:

I wanted to ask if there might be another errata that brings the RotR *cards* in line with the state of the art wording, as well as an optional rebalancing errata that change the cards in a way that the app does.
I'm refering to balancing changes like the ones to the bandit, holy candle, acid arrow, and so on.

Ah—that makes total sense now.

I don't have any current plans to issue revised wordings for RotR cards other than functional errata. Literally hundreds of cards have changed in cosmetic ways. To give you an idea of what that means, I picked three cards at random:

---
Giant Hermit Crab (Tabletop): If the Giant Hermit Crab would be defeated, reroll the dice. The Giant Hermit Crab is defeated or undefeated based solely on the results of the second die roll.

Giant Hermit Crab (Obsidian): If the Giant Hermit Crab would be defeated, reroll the dice. The Giant Hermit Crab is defeated or undefeated based solely on the result of the new roll.
---
Cat (Tabletop): Check to Acquire is Wisdom Survival Intelligence Arcane 8.

Cat (Obsidian): Check to Acquire is Intelligence Arcane Wisdom Survival 8.
---
The Skinsaw Man (Tabletop): Traits are Undead Ghoul Rogue. Last paragraph in powers block is "If undefeated, reset your hand and end your turn."

The Skinsaw Man (Obsidian): Traits are Undead Ghast Rogue. Last paragraph in powers block is "If undefeated, end your turn."

(Ghast vs. Ghoul is cosmetic because no cards care about it. The powers change is the result of a post-S&S FAQ in which the "End Your Turn" step was changed to include resetting your hand.)
---

Cards that have mechanical changes between the tabletop game and the app fall into four categories:

Cards that Obsidian needed to change for technical reasons, but the tabletop implementation is our preference. For example, the card Levitate allows you to move another character at the end of any turn. Which would mean that if you have Levitate in your hand, the app would need to ask you at the end of every character's turn whether or not you would like to use it, and that's annoying (and would be especially so in multiplayer). So it needed to be limited your own turn. But because that makes it less useful, we rebalanced it by letting you move other characters during any part of your turn. And now it's really not the same card anymore, so we gave it a new name: Stride.

Levitate:
At the end of a turn, discard this card to move another character.

Stride:
During your turn, discard this card to move another character.
At the end of your turn, discard this card to move.

That's the biggest example. The second biggest would be Daggers (and cards like them). On the tabletop, you can reveal a Dagger for your combat check, then discard a second Dagger to add to the check, then discard the first Dagger to add to the check. Obsidian isn't able to let you both display and discard the same Dagger for two different powers on the same check.

Current tabletop Dagger template: "On your combat check, if you played another weapon, discard this card to add 1d4."

(Playing the second Dagger is playing another weapon ON your combat check, so that allows you to use this power.)

Obsidian's Dagger template:
"When you play another weapon for your combat check, discard this card to add 1d4."

(Playing the second Dagger is NOT playing another weapon FOR your combat check, so that doesn't allow you to use this power.)

There are a couple other cards that have less significant changes than that; I could not easily provide a list of them.

Cards that needed to be changed due to the possibility that parties can acquire multiple copies in the app (where availability is limited in the tabletop game by the number of copies we put in the box). So far, Holy Candle is the only example.

Cards that Obsidian suggested changes for that we would consider implementing in a future edition. I believe the only ones that currently fit that category are Bandits and Zombie Minions, both of which have gained the Veteran trait and the power "The difficulty to defeat is increased by the scenario’s adventure deck number."

Non-Basic spells that add 3 to base skill checks (as in this FAQ) were replaced with cards that have the Basic trait. So Speed, which was neither Basic nor Elite, was replaced with Agility (from Wrath). And Glibness, which was Elite, was replaced with Eloquence (from the Witch deck). Both cards are functionally identical except that they have the Basic trait.

So I think the "optional" list you're looking for is this:
• Make Bandits and Zombie Minions Veterans
• Replace Speed with Agility and Glibness with Eloquence (or just give them both the Basic trait).

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Actually, there are a few more cards in the "changes that we would consider implementing in a future edition" category, like Acid Arrow, but I'm not sure I have a complete list of them in one place.


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Mokmurian's club in the card game says:

Mokmurian's Club card version wrote:
...you may additionally discard one other card from your hand to add another d10.

Mokmurian's club in the Obsidian app says:

Mokmurian's Club digital version wrote:
...you may additionally discard a card from your hand to add another 1d10.

So, in the digital game, you can discard the Club itself for a d10. Which in particular changes it from a weapon Valeros shouldn't carry to one he should.

A developer at Obsidian said this text change came from Paizo.

Did it?


Thanks for the elaborate answer, Vic, that has been very helpful!
I'll be content with adding the veteran trade to the bandits then.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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elcoderdude wrote:

Mokmurian's club in the card game says:

Mokmurian's Club card version wrote:
...you may additionally discard one other card from your hand to add another d10.

Mokmurian's club in the Obsidian app says:

Mokmurian's Club digital version wrote:
...you may additionally discard a card from your hand to add another 1d10.

So, in the digital game, you can discard the Club itself for a d10. Which in particular changes it from a weapon Valeros shouldn't carry to one he should.

A developer at Obsidian said this text change came from Paizo.

Did it?

It appears that that change did come from us, but it was not intentional. The current text should be "you may additionally discard another card to add another 1d10."

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