Cleric of Zon-Kuthon / Dou-Bral?


Advice


Since my first character was killed by Orcs (and his soul consumed by Szuriel like he wanted) it's time for me to roll up a new one, and I'm thinking about making a cleric of Dou-Bral, the previous form of Zon-Kuthon. My question is, does Dou-Bral still have worshipers on Golarion, and if so, what are they like?


From what I've read... Dou-Bral's conversion to Zon-Kuthon is extremely ancient history, like shortly after the battle to cage Rovagug kind of history.

There is absolutely no evidence of surviving worshippers or clergy. In fact he is totally unknown outside of scholarly and archeological research.

It's a safe bet that he no longer has worshippers of that aspect, which was shared with Shelyn, so Shelyn pretty much carries the full load of what was once their shared portfolio.

So actually Shelyn is your go to in that department. If there were such a thing as a worshipper of Dou-Bral, they'd be worshipping Shelyn as the surviving holder of his portfolio and concerns.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

From what I've read... Dou-Bral's conversion to Zon-Kuthon is extremely ancient history, like shortly after the battle to cage Rovagug kind of history.

There is absolutely no evidence of surviving worshippers or clergy. In fact he is totally unknown outside of scholarly and archeological research.

It's a safe bet that he no longer has worshippers of that aspect, which was shared with Shelyn, so Shelyn pretty much carries the full load of what was once their shared portfolio.

So actually Shelyn is your go to in that department. If there were such a thing as a worshipper of Dou-Bral, they'd be worshipping Shelyn as the surviving holder of his portfolio and concerns.

My GM wants non-evil worshipers of evil gods in the party, and Zon-Kuthon seems like the best fit sense we don't have a healer. However, worshiping him as the god of torture won't really mesh well with the other party members, so I considered making an appeaser who worships Zon-Kuthon as Dou-Bral. Since he doesn't have any active worshipers, maybe make the character some kind of scholarly heretic?

Sovereign Court

I can't think of it offhand but there is a trait that allows you to treat Asmodeus as a LN deity, which would allow you to pick whether to heal or harm with your channel. If that helps at all.


crashcanuck wrote:
I can't think of it offhand but there is a trait that allows you to treat Asmodeus as a LN deity, which would allow you to pick whether to heal or harm with your channel. If that helps at all.
It doesn't work that way. It's from Distant Shores.
Quote:
Pact Servant (Faith): The faith of Holomog focuses on finding the good in unusual places and appreciating the nuances of virtue in the world. You may treat Asmodeus as if he were a lawful neutral deity for the purposes of determining your own alignment as a cleric, inquisitor, or other divine spellcaster. You may not select the evil domain unless your own alignment also contains an evil aspect.

It lets you be a N or LG worshipper, but doesn't change the unavailability of positive energy.


You could think about Deities from other Pantheons. For example a character from Osirion could worship Ancient Osirion deities, or a Chelaxian could worship an Archdevil. You might look at Set a NE god of Darkness, Deserts, Storms, and Murder. Most of the Archdevils areas of concern are reasonable that a non-evil person would follow.


I would also encourage branching out beyond the core dieties.

Zyphus (Inner Sea Faiths), for example, is a pretty good fit for an adventuring cleric, especially one who is not evil themselves and sees accidents as things that just happen, rather than things to be arranged or "encouraged".

Among the Eldest (see the newly released The First World sourcebook), if you want to add a different twist to the game, there is The Green Mother.


MidsouthGuy wrote:


My GM wants non-evil worshipers of evil gods in the party,

I have to ask... why? is it an evil campaign?


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
MidsouthGuy wrote:


My GM wants non-evil worshipers of evil gods in the party,

I have to ask... why? is it an evil campaign?

Redemption vs. damnation is a theme in the campaign our GM wants to run. And as he put it, "I want to see just how grey something can be before it turns to black or white."


You could take a seperatist cleric who worships Zon and Shelyn. You embrace the darkness of Zon but as a follower of Shelyn you know and honor what Zon once was.


Most evil deities can have non-evil clerics (never mind lay worshippers) with a somewhat different interpretation of the dogma. It is a matter of how you read it.

For example, I had previously planned a LN inquisitor of Zon-Kuthon, in whose views suffering and pain are necessary for enlightenment and spiritual growth. Those who indulge in pleasure and comfort are not going to grow stronger and purer. However, enlightenment is not to be randomly imposed on everyone. It must be done for a purpose.

Basically, it was a very "no pain, no gain" reading of the rules. Chances are, this character would think that the main body of the church has become misguided at best, forgetting the reasons behind the sacrament of pain and using it for their own indulgence and powergrabbing.

I think too much of Dou-bral´s old theme and portfolio has passed over to Shelyn. If you start seeking joy and beauty in Zon-Kuthon as he is now, it is possible, but difficult to justify. At that point, pretty much every other evil deity except maybe Rovagug is fair game

- Asmodeus as representing order, rules and logical consequence
- Norgorber as master of all hidden knowledge (it is one of his aspects)
- Urgathoa as representing indulgence, the will to live and enjoy life
- Lamashtu as representing motherhood, unrestrained fertility and growth
- Rovagug... okay, that is harder, but he could be the endless destructive impulse, without which all the world would wither and rot. After all, was it not him who united all the Golarion gods for the first and perhaps last time?


There is an example of a cleric who reveres Zon-Kuthon, but from the standpoint of Dou-bral being a deific martyr. They are LN and channel positive energy. You could use that as a route.


Humm, how do they get to channel positive energy?


The Shaman wrote:
Humm, how do they get to channel positive energy?

To borrow a quote from James Jacobs

James Jacobs wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Reading the stats for the cleric of Zon Kuthon, who is LN, with apparently the ability to channel Positive Energy -- is this a mistake? According to the CRB, neutral clerics of an evil deity still have to channel negative energy.
He can channel positive energy; it's not a mistake, although it DOES go against what the Core Rulebook says. If you want this cleric to comply with the Core Rulebook, that's fine and it's an easy change to make, but in the development of the adventure, I felt it made sense for the character and his near heretical take on his religion to support that heresy by bending the rules.


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
crashcanuck wrote:
I can't think of it offhand but there is a trait that allows you to treat Asmodeus as a LN deity, which would allow you to pick whether to heal or harm with your channel. If that helps at all.
It doesn't work that way. It's from Distant Shores.
Quote:
Pact Servant (Faith): The faith of Holomog focuses on finding the good in unusual places and appreciating the nuances of virtue in the world. You may treat Asmodeus as if he were a lawful neutral deity for the purposes of determining your own alignment as a cleric, inquisitor, or other divine spellcaster. You may not select the evil domain unless your own alignment also contains an evil aspect.
It lets you be a N or LG worshipper, but doesn't change the unavailability of positive energy.

It does, because clerics with a good alignment are locked into channeling positive energy.

Cleric wrote:
A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures.


They're also normally locked into worshipping a good or neutral deity. It's by no means obvious that evil or good gods CAN grant the ability to channel the other type of energy. I'd saw a LG Asmodeus follower has to channel negative energy.

Grand Lodge

I don't see why a cleric couldn't worship Dou-Bral, but there are some pretty heavy caveats. Drahliana is right: there is NO clergy. I don't know if there ever was a clergy. We know almost nothing about the guy. In-game, the fact that Shelyn & Zon-Kuthon mutually acknowledge each other as siblings is the only reason to believe that Dou-Bral ever existed.

If I was the GM for a player that wanted to do this, I'd allow it but the player would need to understand that they are basically on a search for their god: a search that they may never complete or even make much progress on. Possibly there might be repercussions from pulling divine energy from Zon-Kuthon while trying not to worship him and basically trying to pursue Shelyn's goals rather than his own. How long Zon-Kuthon would put up with that is unknowable. The guy is pretty crazy...the fact that he only seems to care about his worshipers at a marginal level should help a little. There would be a substantial chance that I would attempt to corrupt the character with Zon-Kuthon's evil at some point during the campaign. All but guaranteed that I would hunt him with Nidalese inquisitors.

GM involvement with the story of such a character would be heavy, so you really ought to be consulting them. We can provide ideas but that's about it.


Also some advice in playing the cleric, u could steal from temple of pharsma in ustalav. They have sects that believe in torture and mutilation because of how bad u have it in this life, ur next one will be better. Kinda like stocking up on credit for ur next life.


Okay, so after quite a bit of looking, according to the Agents of Evil book, there is a group of people on Golarion called the Scions of Dou-Bral. They worship the God Zon-Kuthon was, but want to spread the influence of the God He is now. They pierce and tattoo themselves and do moderately painful and vaguely BDSM kind of stuff without the insane mutilation Zon-Kuthon usually requires. This group seems like a perfect fit for the character I've made, but I know next to nothing else about them. And I definitely see Nidalese inquisitors on my trail in the future.

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