What things would you NOT want to see in Starfinder?


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A leveling system, you know non "in-game world" rewards

LONG LIVE TRAVELER


To be clear, I wasn't actually thinking chakrats (or anything like them, for that matter) would be in the game. No, I was merely concerned that their might that race who is inhumanly beautiful, has more advanced tech than the rest of galaxy, and is constantly spouting some drivel about how they have "outgrown such silly X" when X is what real life societal issue the author feels like grinding in your face ad nauseam.

Like I said before, I do not think Paizo is going to do anything like that, but for some reason when you give a vast sci-fi setting (well, sci-fantasy in this case) a good half of them decide to make one of the groups their ideal society, with tech and physical characteristics to match. While I do agree that me bringing up chakrats was the equivalent of invoking Godwin's Law in terms of comparison to the worse thing I could think of, it still stands that (far,Far) better authors than that have fallen into the same trap and given an audience a group that makes them want to projectile vomit like Linda Blair from the Exorcist. To cut along story short (though it is a bit late for that) "Stronger men(or in this case, pro writers) than you have lost their way".


Malefactor wrote:
To cut along story short (though it is a bit late for that) "Stronger men(or in this case, pro writers) than you have lost their way".

This isn't me trying to insult Paizo writers, as a matter of fact I love their setting material and typically use it for my self, I was just meaning to say that people who write sci-fi for a living can fall in to this trap if they are not careful.


It's good writing to make your character's flaw what stands out about them. Everyone has skeletons in the closet (or out on display). Every race, government, or corporate entity should have at least one or two weak points, flaws, quirks, or distasteful habits. Perfection is for outsiders only.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

No excessive militarization. Traveller had always had a fairly military bent what with military and paramilitary services being the primary prior careers in character generation. But then Traveller: New Era took that and turned it up to 11. Hated it.


The biggest stacks of skeletons are usually exactly what that organization screams against the loudest.

If everyone else is allowed to eat pixies, you're not special. You're not above all the other pixie eaters... and most importantly you're not above the law. So eating pixies should definitely be illegal. It's sort of a Highlander complex, "there can be only one" and all that.

So for most races, governments and corporate entities, unless they're directly producing a service or product and thus profit on the opposition to something (the average religion vs undead for example), then whatever they're most morally against officially is what they're most likely to be caught doing in an airport bathroom but left unpunished due to being an anointed saint or an elected official.

Also useful for spotting flaws; any loose laws. As history has pretty much consistently shown us with few if ever any exceptions; whatever the sickest, worst abuse the wording of a law could possibly lead to is usually precisely the intended goal to begin with. Loopholes aren't accidental, those caught red-handed simply shrug their shoulders and pretend they didn't know. Somehow ignorance of the law IS an excuse, but only as long as you're in office or wearing a badge and uniform.


PaladinDemo wrote:
Bluenose wrote:
No split between classes bound by what's reasonably possible and other classes that get all the 'over-the-top' stuff they could want. Pick one or the other and stick to it for all the classes. If you don't want warriors who stack up alongside Space Marines, then don't have people who make Yoda or Conway Costigan look anaemic among your 'casters'.

Mobile infantry

Imperial guard
Colonial Marines
Star Fleet red shirts
Storm troopers

That should take care of the major chode warriors.

If those are the starting point (or at least low level) for classes, what are the appropriate 'ending points' for them? What are their equivalents in the 'Speshul Powahz!' category, and what do they end up as?

And let's not try to equate Star Wars or 40k with Star Trek or the Alienverse. In the first pair you get PC-equivalent who learn special powers (Jedi and Psykers and perhaps Tech-priests); in Star Trek special powers are the domain of beings who aren't PCs, and the PCs get out-of-play if they ever match up to them (see for instance Gary Mitchell and Annoying Brat, written out of the game when their players succumbed to the lure of special abilities).

Silver Crusade

If we could not derail this thread with armchair social theory that'd be awesome.

I'm not entirely sold on Starfinder and I've already got a fair amount of sunk costs into Fantasy Flight's Warhammer 40k RPGs, but I'll see what catches my eye as more detail emerges. What I really *don't* want to see is single-biome or single-culture planets, which I think is huge waste of potential for sci-fi. Not that every planet needs to be as throughly-developed as Golarion or Abeir-Toril, but "Desert Planet" and "Jungle Planet" are just lazy.

I'd also like have them avoid making even most planets earth-like. A huge source of challenge can be from having creatures capable of thriving in environments utterly hostile to "normal" creatures. Undead infesting an airless asteroid-base, incorporeal creatures using gravity-based traps to their advantage, that sort of thing.


I just grabbed all the recruitment posters of all the military forces I knew that victory is how many bodies you can throw to grab one inch of ground.


Don't make it overly magical, I want Scifi, not as much fantasy. So Make sure there is a good amount of the magic, is done by using devices, that make the magical effect.

Silver Crusade

Huh, interesting that you say that Baachus, because what I really want to see is what space-fantasy societies would look like with industrial-scale magic. As in, the degree of food production, transportation, day-to-day living, and warfare where magic is as ubiquitous as cellphones and cars are for us. I think that'd be fascinating.

Liberty's Edge

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Mark Thomas 66 wrote:
andygal wrote:
No alien hive mind hordes looking to assimilate everyone, it's been done to death.
But resistance is FUTILE.

Wrong Resistance is Useless ;)

An attempt to make the various cultures and races stand out. Not take Dwarves and simply reskin and rehash the existing ones from Pathfinder.


Malefactor wrote:
But then, seeing on how (probably) none of the Paizo staff are Chaotic Evil, we will probably not have to fear anything among those lines.

There's Cosmo....


Chyrone wrote:
Malefactor wrote:
But then, seeing on how (probably) none of the Paizo staff are Chaotic Evil, we will probably not have to fear anything among those lines.
There's Cosmo . . . .

kinda FTFY. ;)


Matthew Shelton wrote:

I personally would like to wish against the following:

Please no Star trek style transporters--or anything that dematerializes or rematerializes living things from scratch, nonmagically

Please no breathable fantasy space gas--please no phlogiston or outer-space fresh air that allows creatures to walk outside on deck without spacesuits.

Please no subjective directional gravity in either deep space or The Drift.

Please no super-colossal space amoebas, planet-sized robots, or really anything defined as a creature that is large enough for escape velocity (ex) to be relevan, aside from some weird magical ability to create an artificial gravity well or something. Starbases, death stars, mobile cities with onboard hyperdrives, that's different, just no oversized creatures.

Sorry that i dont source these comments but...

There was an interview where it was called out that Androids as a race are better suited to work in the vacuum of space. In the little art we have seen so far, such as the splash page, we see the Ysoki and Kasatha wearing breathing gear while the Android is just chilling face free and clear. Looks to be leaning your way here.

There is a race of super jelly fish hive minds that can link up into super brains and produce bio-chems organically. at least one in universe company is a conglomerate of millions of these jelly fish working together.. it seemed that individuals were approximately elephant size based on art so the super melded one of millions together would be at least city sized by itself? still thats not quite up to "has its own gravitational pull" just yet.

I agree with you on the matter transporters. please no. or at least make them extremely limited and possibly radioactive to discourage their use.

as for subjective gravity, i quite like the idea of gravity drives for space settings, it gets around the reactionless engine stuff quite nicely.


Niche protection.

Even as it's class based, let each class have a good chance to do abilities that other classes can. A lot more flexibility in range of skills.

Probably not going to happen, but that would be cool.


Quote:
I agree with you on the matter transporters. please no. or at least make them extremely limited and possibly radioactive to discourage their use.

Yeah, I would be perfectly okay with devices that could transmute raw materials, replicate nonliving edible food, and so on.

Quote:
as for subjective gravity, i quite like the idea of gravity drives for space settings, it gets around the reactionless engine stuff quite nicely.

Artificial gravity plating and sublight gravity-drives ought to be OK. I'm talking about subjective gravity as a natural phenomenon that exists throughout hyperspace.


Lack of wardrobe customization. Needing to rely on armor or "magic outfits" to survive limits character customization.


What I don't want to see in Starfinder is, in a word: limits.

The Universe is a big place, there is plenty of room for everything.


I don`t want to see mighty magic. It should be the era of technology! Maybe magic as mysticism of some sort. But that should be the maximum dose of it.
Don`t make it too similar, to Golarion-Pathfinder (witch i love)


Insta-disintegrate/vaporize weapons.

Seeing a buddy fail his stealth check and get shot to dust or less, isn't particularly good for morale.

Makes for good willsaves vs panic, though.


Griesbrei wrote:

I don`t want to see mighty magic. It should be the era of technology! Maybe magic as mysticism of some sort. But that should be the maximum dose of it.

Don`t make it too similar, to Golarion-Pathfinder (witch i love)

In a fantasy world, aren't technology and magic the same thing?

Think about it this way, if you can open up a laptop and press a few keystrokes and through it summon a digital entity into the physical realm, is it any different from if you'd summoned an extra planar entity into the physical world via a wizardly incantation?

And even better... What if the process of doing those two actions both work off the same formula? Just that one abstracts that formula as computer code and one abstracts it as some dead language.

The distinction is made even more moot, when one of said computer's CPU cores is itself just a strip of metal with an arcane formula etched into it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No Planet of Hats trope.

No Universal Translator.


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Odraude wrote:
I don't want to see anything fun in Starfinder. No fun allowed here :p

The 4e PHB asserts that the game is supposed to be fun. Hence, any game which is in any way fun is automatically the same as 4e. We all know that 4e is a conspiracy by MMO Illuminati to destroy our hobby, thus any game which is fun will be the death of Real Roleplaying games.


Malefactor wrote:

I don't want to see any of the straw "cultures-who-are-way-better-than-you-in-every-way-and-you-pale-in-comparis on-to-me"

In a word, I don't want to see Chakrats. (WARNING, ADDS ARE SOMETIMES NSFW)

But then, seeing on how (probably) none of the Paizo staff are Chaotic Evil, we will probably not have to fear anything among those lines.

Agreed on the whole "no Mary Sue" cultures or races thing. That said, there's probably nothing I wouldn't forgive Starfinder doing or including if it actually had Chakats in it.

Spoiler:
And no, I don't consider that mutually contradictory, but then, I think the whole "Mary Sue" impression is just because of the writing of the earlier stories. I started reading midway through the series, so I didn't get that impression until I went back and read Forest Tales in order (and then, only for the first few chapters).


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PaladinDemo wrote:


Mobile infantry

That's not MI! This is MI! And even here, they're dropping too close together.

Quote:
"You’ll be dropped in two skirmish lines, calculated two-thousand-yard intervals. Get your bearing on me as soon as you hit, get your bearing and distance on your squad mates, both sides, while you take cover. You’ve wasted ten seconds already, so you smash-and-destroy whatever’s at hand until the flankers hit dirt."


I don't want magic or psionics because I prefer hard SF to science fantasy. No sunbeams, free planets, or negaspheres either! :-D


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Scott Romanowski wrote:
I don't want magic or psionics because I prefer hard SF to science fantasy. No sunbeams, free planets, or negaspheres either! :-D

Technomancy and mystics are already in there. Starfinder will be science fantasy, not science fiction.


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Scott Romanowski wrote:
I don't want magic or psionics because I prefer hard SF to science fantasy. No sunbeams, free planets, or negaspheres either! :-D

Err... then you kind of got the wrong game, Scott. They have been very upfront about how this will be very strongly science fantasy themed, right down to space marines with magic space suits and holy laser rifles.

EDIT: Gasp! Ninja'd!

Scarab Sages

No WARHAMMER 40K-style comic relief space-orcs.

No space-rednecks - yes, I'm looking at you, Starcraft!

And definitely no hyperspace bypasses!


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

No WARHAMMER 40K-style comic relief space-orcs.

No space-rednecks - yes, I'm looking at you, Starcraft!

And definitely no hyperspace bypasses!

With the way mechanics of "the Drift" have been described, faster than light travel does not appear to be a bypass so you may get your wish.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Have we ruled out the possibility that the Vogons demolished Golarion to make way for a hyperspace bypass?


David knott 242 wrote:

Have we ruled out the possibility that the Vogons demolished Golarion to make way for a hyperspace bypass?

Its been on the notices at Rigel Prime for years.

EDIT: Although I won't be using the Drift as hyperspace in my games. It's Temporal Jump Drives all the way. While I understand the Drift, its not going to be in my games.


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:


And definitely no hyperspace bypasses!

The plans for the hyperspace bypass have been available on record in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your earth years. You've had plenty of time to file a complaint.


Dang, quasi-ninja'd by nearly half an hour. That's what I get for walking away and coming back before hitting "submit post."


David knott 242 wrote:

Have we ruled out the possibility that the Vogons demolished Golarion to make way for a hyperspace bypass?

Or the Thanagarians did it.


Thinking on it, I'd really prefer race specific archetypes and favored class bonuses that have nothing to do with racial features go away. Paizo wanted to get away from the "this class + this race = best", didn't they? If they tie those race specific options to the actual race for a change(like the Qouat, a monk archetype for dwarves that alters/changes things like Hatred) then it at least makes sense.


In a general sense, I don't want to see Starfinder make to many comprises to be "backwards compatible (or the like)" to the Pathfinder RPG instead of striking on its own to be a more solid stand alone product line.

I also want to see a good balance of fantasy, technology and magic (along the lines of Dragonstar), and not a game where one of those themes clearly dominates the other.

Finally, I don't want to see Starfinder duplicate or repeat material that is better handled by a different rules system (like Alternity, GURPS Space, d20 Future, d6 Space...)which are more oriented to "hard" science fiction settings.

So far, I like what I am reading about the direction this game development is going. :)


Space ponies.


Giorgo wrote:

In a general sense, I don't want to see Starfinder make to many comprises to be "backwards compatible (or the like)" to the Pathfinder RPG instead of striking on its own to be a more solid stand alone product line.

So far, I like what I am reading about the direction this game development is going. :)

It should be it's own product line, and has all the potential to be solid by itself. PAIZO is going in the right direction for it, based off what a friend of mine is telling me.

I love the idea that its going to have an OGL. And the possibilities to think outside of the boxed setting are staggering. So I'd like to see some encouragement in that area. What I don't want to see is it floundering in it's first year. I hope everyone agrees.


Dragon78 wrote:
Deathstar wannabes, it's been done to death.

Lol. It's been done to death in Star Wars alone.


EltonJ wrote:
What I don't want to see is it floundering in it's first year. I hope everyone agrees.

I think it's almost inevitable that it'll have a rough first year. A largely new system and setting that the writers are still getting familiar with is one where there are likely to be more than a few missteps early on. Treating that as a sign of an unsuccessful product and trying to fix it is one of the things I'd not want to see.

The other would be seeing the same problems continuing to appear after a couple of years and not trying to do something about them after that. Discovering that one of the classes is a '3.x Monk' and leaving it alone so that people wanting to play the sort of character it represents will know they aren't going to be as useful as other characters is not a good policy, and can't be excused by 'backwards compatibility'.


Ignoring distance and the speed of light, aka instantaneous interstellar communication and interstellar sensors. Just listing distances as light hours/minutes would allow GM's to cover this and make the game more realistic and challenging in that we have react to what we think they are gonna do not what we see them do.


Raef13 wrote:
Ignoring distance and the speed of light, aka instantaneous interstellar communication and interstellar sensors. Just listing distances as light hours/minutes would allow GM's to cover this and make the game more realistic and challenging in that we have react to what we think they are gonna do not what we see them do.

Don't use parsecs as a measurement of time. Han you had one job!


I don't want to see a whole bunch of humanoids are the most populous category in the universe. I must point out that some people have pointed out that it would be Hubris to think that life would be limited in such a way as to make sapient beings all look like ape-descendant Arthur Dent, Starship Captain James T. Kirk, or Luke Skywalker. we need more of what Han Solo says in The Force Awakens. I think you know what I'm Talking about...

Movie plot spoiler:
"Whatever you do, don't stare."
"At What?"
"Any of it"


I would not like to see nonmagical ways to bring back the dead. This doesn't mean "no defibrillators" or emergency life-support chambers to stuff a newly-minted corpse into, which will start artificially reoxygenating their brain right way. I'm talking about technology versions that mimic Resurrection or True Resurrection.

Or, for that matter, nothing technological that will convert undead tissue or creatures into living ones. Two exceptions might be "nannite zombies" (nanorobot swarms that take possession of a dead body and use it to move around and do things) or "nannite ghosts" (nannite swarms that can take over a living person's body and turn them into a living marionette doll).

Anti-nannite technology might purge the nannites from a dead body and neutralize the threat, or exorcise the nannites from a marionette so they can have control over their bodies again.


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Giorgo wrote:
In a general sense, I don't want to see Starfinder make to many comprises to be "backwards compatible (or the like)" to the Pathfinder RPG instead of striking on its own to be a more solid stand alone product line.

If it wasn't nominally the same universe as the default Pathfinder setting, I'd agree. But I played classic World of Darkness. Insufficient compatibility which requires a lot of work to put characters/gear/whatever from one into the other is a step backwards not forwards.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Matthew Shelton wrote:

I would not like to see nonmagical ways to bring back the dead. This doesn't mean "no defibrillators" or emergency life-support chambers to stuff a newly-minted corpse into, which will start artificially reoxygenating their brain right way. I'm talking about technology versions that mimic Resurrection or True Resurrection.

Or, for that matter, nothing technological that will convert undead tissue or creatures into living ones. Two exceptions might be "nannite zombies" (nanorobot swarms that take possession of a dead body and use it to move around and do things) or "nannite ghosts" (nannite swarms that can take over a living person's body and turn them into a living marionette doll).

Anti-nannite technology might purge the nannites from a dead body and neutralize the threat, or exorcise the nannites from a marionette so they can have control over their bodies again.

The Technology Guide already has the clonepod and neurocam.


I really hope Aroden doesn't get any mention in Starfinder. His mystery has grown stale and there's no reason to try and figure it out, because his death only had one effect on the world: Iomedae.

Golorian is gone. Aroden shouldn't be a concern for anyone.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Azten wrote:

I really hope Aroden doesn't get any mention in Starfinder. His mystery has grown stale and there's no reason to try and figure it out, because his death only had one effect on the world: Iomedae.

Golorian is gone. Aroden shouldn't be a concern for anyone.

First of all, it's Golarion, not Golorian.

Aroden's death has had far more effects on the world than Iomedae, to list a few:

- Milani
- Cheliax going to hell in a handbasket, literally
- Eye of Abendego
- prophecies and omens lose any credibility

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