Spider-Man Homecoming


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Kalshane wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

When's got the cape and tights on, what about Superman is not part of who he actually is? People can lead multifaceted lives, we do this every day when we go to work, then come home and interact different with our family than we did our coworkers. It doesn't mean either is untrue to ourselves (though it is possible).

What about the superman identity is false? Something that he does that runs counter to his true nature. Not just different, but counter.

He's putting on a performance as Supes, as much as he is as Clark (even if Clark involves downplaying his physical abilities). As Superman he is a symbol and tries not to show any cracks in that exterior.

There's a great scene in the Justice League cartoon where he and Martian Manhunter go to visit the Kents for Christmas and he confesses to J'onn that he's looking forward to being able to be himself for a few days.

I specifically asked for something that was false to his character or personality.

I do things that make me tired and I want a break from. That doesn't make them false to my character or personality, it just means that they take effort on my part. Effort does not equal false. Effort and false aren't even close to being synonyms.

It's really easy to show how Superman is being false as Clark Kent. When confronted with a situation where his physical abilities would give him away, Superman lies and pretends that he doesn't have his physical capabilities, such as strength, or even just good eye sight. Both his adoptive parents and biological parents have stressed the importance of honesty and truth. If he truly believes in that, then his lies about himself as Clark Kent are counter, or false, to his character and personality.

Looking forward to a vacation does not mean that your regular life is false towards your character and personality.


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Irontruth wrote:


I specifically asked for something that was false to his character or personality.

I do things that make me tired and I want a break from. That doesn't make them false to my character or personality, it just means that they take effort on my part. Effort does not equal false. Effort and false aren't even close to being synonyms.

It's really easy to show how Superman is being false as Clark Kent. When confronted with a situation where his physical abilities would give him away, Superman lies and pretends that he doesn't have his physical capabilities, such as strength, or even just good eye sight. Both his adoptive parents and biological parents have stressed the importance of honesty and truth. If he truly believes in that, then his lies about himself as Clark Kent are counter, or false, to his character and personality.

Looking forward to a vacation does not mean that your regular life is false towards your character and personality.

By the logic you seem to be following any character with superpowers that doesn't openly use them in their civilian identity is faking that identity. So Peter Parker is a false identity, Barry Allen is a false identity, etc.

The "real" Clark Kent/Superman is a Kansas Farmboy that also happens to have an array of super powers. He grew up as the son of Jon and Martha Kent. Superman is a persona he took on when he decided to use his powers to protect his home.

Yes, as "Clark" in his day-to-day life, he pretends to be an ordinary, possibly (depending on the writer) clumsy human. However, as Superman he leaves out the Kansas and Farmboy. Most of the personality traits are the same, yes, but Superman is "The Last Son of Krypton" as well as a symbol of hope and justice. He intentionally makes no mention of having an Earth family or life.

The real Clark Kent is a blend of it all, the good man raised on Earth by two loving, human, parents that also happens to have been born on an alien world and thus bestowed with incredible powers.


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thejeff wrote:


Though that was kind of the general marvel shtick, back in the early days - superheroes with real people troubles. Or at least troubles.
The FF couldn't pay the rent on the Baxter building in one of the early issues and got evicted. The Thing was stuck as a monster. The X-Men were always feared and hated. The Hulk was a monster, etc.

Even the ones for whom it wasn't a constant thing had their problems. Over time, it kind of evened out - Marvel moved a bit away from it and DC moved towards it. Peter Parker stayed with it more than most.

Yeah, Hulk and Banner had it in spades and pre-dated Spider-man... as did Thing. Early marvel was all about how messed up having powers would be and how at the end of the issue, all your problems weren't magically solved. Grimm was still a monster, Hulk was still hunted, Spidey was still... well, Spidey. Broke in his secret life, Treated as a Menace in his 'fun' life... Secret Ids have been around forever, but it wasn't JUST Spider-man showing the downside of them. It was pretty much Marvel's mission statement.

As for Superman vs. Clark Kent... People are missing the point here. There are not two conflicting personalities... there are THREE. Same with Batman. Superman is NOT the 'real' personality. He's not always the holier than thou super blue boyscout who can rally an entire world behind his cape. That's not who Ma and Pa raised on the farm. He's much more humble than that... He's not clutzy deceiving Clark Kent in the office... that's a mask too. Two masks for him. The Real Clark Kent is the one who hangs out with his family and Lois at home and is his own thing. Both Costumes are their own mask. The kids he grew up with in Smallville... would never really recognize Metropolis Kent anymore.

Batman is the same way. Batman is dark and scary and violent and manipulative... Bruce Wayne is flippant and easy going and a reckless playboy... Neither of those are real. The REAL Bruce is the one who adopted an orphan and wanted him to be better than he was.

Dark Avenger Batman designed to scare the crap out of random thugs in the street... THAT man wouldn't have the 'family' that the REAL Batman does. He wouldn't be drinking hot cocoa with Dick or Tim and watching a movie. Alfred would never have put up with THAT Batman if he were the 'real' thing. All Star Batman and Robin showed what he would be like if THAT was the real face... and it was horrifying.

There's always a middle ground between the two masks of these characters. When there are no criminals... and no society page watching... THAT's when the real Clark and Bruce are shown.


Kalshane wrote:
Irontruth wrote:


I specifically asked for something that was false to his character or personality.

I do things that make me tired and I want a break from. That doesn't make them false to my character or personality, it just means that they take effort on my part. Effort does not equal false. Effort and false aren't even close to being synonyms.

It's really easy to show how Superman is being false as Clark Kent. When confronted with a situation where his physical abilities would give him away, Superman lies and pretends that he doesn't have his physical capabilities, such as strength, or even just good eye sight. Both his adoptive parents and biological parents have stressed the importance of honesty and truth. If he truly believes in that, then his lies about himself as Clark Kent are counter, or false, to his character and personality.

Looking forward to a vacation does not mean that your regular life is false towards your character and personality.

By the logic you seem to be following any character with superpowers that doesn't openly use them in their civilian identity is faking that identity. So Peter Parker is a false identity, Barry Allen is a false identity, etc.

The "real" Clark Kent/Superman is a Kansas Farmboy that also happens to have an array of super powers. He grew up as the son of Jon and Martha Kent. Superman is a persona he took on when he decided to use his powers to protect his home.

Yes, as "Clark" in his day-to-day life, he pretends to be an ordinary, possibly (depending on the writer) clumsy human. However, as Superman he leaves out the Kansas and Farmboy. Most of the personality traits are the same, yes, but Superman is "The Last Son of Krypton" as well as a symbol of hope and justice. He intentionally makes no mention of having an Earth family or life.

The real Clark Kent is a blend of it all, the good man raised on Earth by two loving, human, parents that also happens to have been born on an alien world and thus bestowed with incredible...

Yes, I am in agreement when people say that the identity of "Clark Kent - mild mannered reporter" is a false identity, the one he shows to those who don't know that Kent-Superman are connected. This logic doesn't necessarily apply to all people with super powers, but those who actively promote truth and honesty would be going against ideals/values for their own benefit. Wolverine for example often hides who he is, but he's also willing to lie and cheat to get what he wants at times. It's part of his nature to be deceptive when he thinks it serves his goals.

I'm not in agreement that the "Superman" identity is false. To say it's false, you have to show what part of it is not true to the man behind the "mask" (not a physical mask in this case, but metaphorical). What does "Superman" do that is false to his true identity?

For example, is there something that Jon Kent taught him to do, or a value he tried to instill in him, that the "Superman" persona rejects?

When I GM some of my games, I put on a "mask" (metaphorical). I act in a specific way and do certain things to a heightened degree. After a 4 hour session, I am actually physically tired. I'm not being false to myself though, all the things that I did are part of my normal personality, I'm just exaggerating them to achieve a certain effect. I'm not doing things I don't believe in, or things I don't enjoy. The character of "Irontruth - GM" is part of me, but it's only one part though. There's more to me than that, but that identity is not a false one.

People act differently at work, school, church, gaming, sporting events, etc... Behaving differently doesn't mean you're behaving falsely. It just means you're adapting to the situation around you and behaving with a specific set of skills that you think that situation requires. It's possibly to behave falsely to your core personality in a situation, but that doesn't mean you are being false in all situations.

A facet of a personality is not the same as a false personality. Facet and false are not synonyms.

For the "Superman" persona to be a false persona some element has to be contradictory or contrary to his true persona. If you think that that's true, please provide an example of a contradictory element in the "Superman" persona from his true one.

Like, if Superman actually hated humanity, but didn't want to go against the wishes of his dead parents (human and kryptonian), so he just goes through the motions of being "Superman" in order to appease their memory, that would be acting falsely. He would be promoting values and ideals that he doesn't believe in.

I agree that the "real Clark" is his whole identity. The "Superman" persona is not his complete self. It isn't contrary to what he believes in though. It isn't contrary to how he thinks a person should act. The "fake Clark" is false though. It's his attempt to avoid detection and pass as someone he isn't: a normal human. He doesn't completely get rid of his values and ideals, but he does put them partially to the side in order to achieve his deception... because deception is not normally in his nature. When that deception gets in the way of his ideals, he discards the persona of "fake Clark" and becomes "Superman".


I saw it again yesterday a second time. On a general level it's a good movie. As a superhero movie it's decent. Lack of any sense responsability from the main character just stands out so much more a second time imo. Yes I know he is young and 15 but still. I think they should change the iconic phrase of the character to "with great power comes a complete and total lack of responsability".

Given how things are a teacher who barely shrugs when one of his students disappears. Seriously no reaction and instead of being angry and asking for a reason. Welcomes back Peter with open arms and makes him the guy in charge. At the very least we were spared "lack of responsability is patriotic!"

Getting up out of detention and no one and I mean no one really says anything with better coming across as being too good for it because "Spider-man".

A too forgiving love interest because after being Spider-man equal zero to no responsability or any real accountability. Only Aunt May and funny enough Vulture made better act responsabily imo.

Otherwise it's stilla good movie yet the sequal needs to have the character be more responsible or have those around him take him to task.


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The Thing From Another World wrote:
I saw it again yesterday a second time. On a general level it's a good movie. As a superhero movie it's decent. Lack of any sense responsability from the main character just stands out so much more a second time imo. Yes I know he is young and 15 but still. I think they should change the iconic phrase of the character to "with great power comes a complete and total lack of responsability".

This seems fairly harsh. I had a few problems with the show, but that really wasn't one of them.

The Thing From Another World wrote:


Given how things are a teacher who barely shrugs when one of his students disappears. Seriously no reaction and instead of being angry and asking for a reason. Welcomes back Peter with open arms and makes him the guy in charge. At the very least we were spared "lack of responsability is patriotic!"

My memory has Peter quitting and then coming back and being put in charge... While we didn't get the teacher freaking about Peter (which TOTALLY should have happened if a kid goes missing in Washington field trip...) I don't remember him being rewarded in any way from that teacher. FRANKLY, regardless of Peter... that Teacher would probably be fired or crucified by the public for failure to chaperone properly. Nobody ever really blames the kids these days... But that trip was horribly handled.

I wonder what it would be like for Peter if his sneaking out and being Spider-man resulted in a teacher losing his job? That would be an interesting 'responsiblity' lesson to play with... but they'd probably just turn him into a supervillain and settle things with fists... :-/

The Thing From Another World wrote:


Getting up out of detention and no one and I mean no one really says anything with better coming across as being too good for it because "Spider-man".

Much like skipping out on the class... there WERE reprecussions for that though. They just didn't go to in depth with them. He was drug into the principal's office and Ned was sure he was getting expelled. We don't know if that was from bailing on the trip, or bailing on Detention... but his haphazard attitude DID get attention.

He DID get away with it of course... but the Spider-bite isn't THAT old, and Pete had always been a good student and one of the smartest in the school.... and even if they didnt' rehash it again, His Uncle was murdered that year and 'coincidentally' the same time his attitude problems started. It's not unforeseen that the school is cutting him slack when everything works out in the end.

The Thing From Another World wrote:


A too forgiving love interest because after being Spider-man equal zero to no responsability or any real accountability. Only Aunt May and funny enough Vulture made better act responsabily imo.

Ehhh Liz was moving a continent away and her dad was a supervillain. It put 'weak boyfriend' into perspective. I actually loved that scene. It showed a maturity you don't usually see dealing with 'high school romance'...

The Thing From Another World wrote:


Otherwise it's stilla good movie yet the sequal needs to have the character be more responsible or have those around him take him to task.

For me, the responsibility WAS there... it just wasn't directed where you wanted it. Which was actually consistant with MOST Spider-man stories. School, job, girlfriends.... they ALWAYS take a back seat to being Spider-man.

Alien Weaponry was on the streets... Supervillains were causing chaos... Crossing Tony meant losing his chance at the Avengers... but blast it, people could get hurt if he doesn't DO something! He bailed on the pool party to track villains... He bailed on the dance to stop Vulture (even after Vulture told him what would happen...)

He took a lot of great responsibility to go with that Great power... His personal life was in shambles, but that's usually been par for course.

I would like to see a better balance in the future... Honestly it's why I prefer the college Peter to the High School one... Fewer Adults hovering of his every move. More personal freedom to make his own choices... but I still saw the themes here too.


phantom1592 wrote:
The Thing From Another World wrote:
I saw it again yesterday a second time. On a general level it's a good movie. As a superhero movie it's decent. Lack of any sense responsability from the main character just stands out so much more a second time imo. Yes I know he is young and 15 but still. I think they should change the iconic phrase of the character to "with great power comes a complete and total lack of responsability".

This seems fairly harsh. I had a few problems with the show, but that really wasn't one of them.

The Thing From Another World wrote:


Given how things are a teacher who barely shrugs when one of his students disappears. Seriously no reaction and instead of being angry and asking for a reason. Welcomes back Peter with open arms and makes him the guy in charge. At the very least we were spared "lack of responsability is patriotic!"

My memory has Peter quitting and then coming back and being put in charge... While we didn't get the teacher freaking about Peter (which TOTALLY should have happened if a kid goes missing in Washington field trip...) I don't remember him being rewarded in any way from that teacher. FRANKLY, regardless of Peter... that Teacher would probably be fired or crucified by the public for failure to chaperone properly. Nobody ever really blames the kids these days... But that trip was horribly handled.

I wonder what it would be like for Peter if his sneaking out and being Spider-man resulted in a teacher losing his job? That would be an interesting 'responsiblity' lesson to play with... but they'd probably just turn him into a supervillain and settle things with fists... :-/

The Thing From Another World wrote:


Getting up out of detention and no one and I mean no one really says anything with better coming across as being too good for it because "Spider-man".
Much like skipping out on the class... there WERE reprecussions for that though. They just didn't go to in depth with them. He was drug into the principal's...

I like college peter too...Made more sense to me.

But come on..he's 15 here. Anybody else remember being 15? It's not fun on any end. I agree with the walking out of detention thing...that struck me as unrealistic. Someone(guy in the chair) should have pulled fire alarm.


Again I'm not saying it's a bad movie by any means. Or that no one should go see it because some parts of it I dislike. What can I say I really did not get any sense of responsability on this version of Peter Parker imo. The other movie versions yes just not this one. Yes I know he is 15 and being 15 did in no way shape or form at least in my time suddenly give someone a free pass on responsability. Maybe it's different now and granted I was not held accountable for every mistake. I can tell you good luck trying to use "but...but I'm young" as a reason to get out of trouble and responsability in the 1970s and 1980s. One could have tried nine times out of ten it was not going to work.


The Thing From Another World wrote:
Again I'm not saying it's a bad movie by any means. Or that no one should go see it because some parts of it I dislike. What can I say I really did not get any sense of responsability on this version of Peter Parker imo. The other movie versions yes just not this one. Yes I know he is 15 and being 15 did in no way shape or form at least in my time suddenly give someone a free pass on responsability. Maybe it's different now and granted I was not held accountable for every mistake. I can tell you good luck trying to use "but...but I'm young" as a reason to get out of trouble and responsability in the 1970s and 1980s. One could have tried nine times out of ten it was not going to work.

he did get yelled at a few times in the film, but that's weak compared to my mom's idea of punishment.


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Freehold DM wrote:
The Thing From Another World wrote:
Again I'm not saying it's a bad movie by any means. Or that no one should go see it because some parts of it I dislike. What can I say I really did not get any sense of responsability on this version of Peter Parker imo. The other movie versions yes just not this one. Yes I know he is 15 and being 15 did in no way shape or form at least in my time suddenly give someone a free pass on responsability. Maybe it's different now and granted I was not held accountable for every mistake. I can tell you good luck trying to use "but...but I'm young" as a reason to get out of trouble and responsability in the 1970s and 1980s. One could have tried nine times out of ten it was not going to work.
he did get yelled at a few times in the film, but that's weak compared to my mom's idea of punishment.

Your mom is unlikely to be sued by the parents/guardians of a gifted and troubled special darling who just needs love and attention...

*cough*Teachforayearandthescarslastforever*cough*

I do think the script could have done with someone besides a fellow student mentioning the possibility of expulsion, but this film was clearly striving for a generally lighter tone than previous Spiderman flicks.


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Cole Deschain wrote:


Your mom is unlikely to be sued by the parents/guardians of a gifted and troubled special darling who just needs love and attention...

*cough*Teachforayearandthescarslastforever*cough*

I do think the script could have done with someone besides a fellow student mentioning the possibility of expulsion, but this film was clearly striving for a generally lighter tone than previous Spiderman flicks.

Freehold DM wrote:
But come on..he's 15 here. Anybody else remember being 15? It's not fun on any end. I agree with the walking out of detention thing...that struck me as unrealistic. Someone(guy in the chair) should have pulled fire alarm.

After being in the school system last year as a Substitute.... I'm not really surprised. There really isn't a whole lot people could do in this day and age. He could have said something or warned him of consequences... but there really aren't many any more. He couldn't pull a fire alarm, or physically restrain him or tie him to the chair... These kind of 'time outs' are pretty symbolic at best and if the kids just flip you off and do what they want you really don't have the power you had in the 80's or even 90's.

One thing I noticed during the show is just how... broken the teachers seemed to be. They seemed pretty depressed an apathetic... which sadly struck as pretty realistic.


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The Thing From Another World wrote:
Again I'm not saying it's a bad movie by any means. Or that no one should go see it because some parts of it I dislike. What can I say I really did not get any sense of responsability on this version of Peter Parker imo. The other movie versions yes just not this one. Yes I know he is 15 and being 15 did in no way shape or form at least in my time suddenly give someone a free pass on responsability. Maybe it's different now and granted I was not held accountable for every mistake. I can tell you good luck trying to use "but...but I'm young" as a reason to get out of trouble and responsability in the 1970s and 1980s. One could have tried nine times out of ten it was not going to work.

I could be wrong here, but you seem to be talking about an entire different kind of responsibility than the classic Spider-man "With great power comes great responsibility" version.

Peter, as Spider-man, is living up to the responsibilities that come with his power - he's going out, risking his life to be heroic, stop the bad guys and save people. He's also risking getting in trouble - with school, with his aunt, with his love interest. Because he treats his responsibilities as a hero more seriously than getting in trouble for disappearing from the field trip or whatever.

Peter is doing the right thing. You seem to mostly be complaining that he doesn't actually get in sufficient trouble for it, but that's on the other characters not on him.


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Just finished watching this on disc.

They made Eugene Thompson part of the academic decathlon team, a social bully, and DJ Flash. Because Midtown Science and Technology School doesn't have a sports team.

So why do they have:
1) a football field?
2) a school mascot?
3) cheerleaders?

Sovereign Court

GreenDragon1133 wrote:

Just finished watching this on disc.

They made Eugene Thompson part of the academic decathlon team, a social bully, and DJ Flash. Because Midtown Science and Technology School doesn't have a sports team.

So why do they have:
1) a football field?
2) a school mascot?
3) cheerleaders?

Because physical bullies are so 20th century. Plus, emotional and social bullying is far worse.


The character fell flat because he wasn't credible as a bully.

Silver Crusade

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GreenDragon1133 wrote:
The character fell flat because he wasn't credible as a bully.

That’s an assumption you are having.


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Hama wrote:
GreenDragon1133 wrote:

Just finished watching this on disc.

They made Eugene Thompson part of the academic decathlon team, a social bully, and DJ Flash. Because Midtown Science and Technology School doesn't have a sports team.

So why do they have:
1) a football field?
2) a school mascot?
3) cheerleaders?

Because physical bullies are so 20th century. Plus, emotional and social bullying is far worse.

I wouldn't say far worse. Not to diminish the social version, but the physical stuff can be pretty bad. And it's not like there isn't a social component to it, even if it's less subtle.

Beyond that, I think Flash works better as a physical bully. Makes a nice contrast when Parker, after becoming Spider-man, can easily beat him up, but doesn't.


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I really liked how they handled Flash.

Sovereign Court

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It's a school for smart kids. So it's pretty reasonable to assume that social bullying is much much more prominent than physical.


Rysky wrote:
GreenDragon1133 wrote:
The character fell flat because he wasn't credible as a bully.
That’s an assumption you are having.

I agree with GreenDragon. As a bully he fell flat, because multiple times he tried to put Parker down, and multiple people around them sided with Parker. The only time that Flash really seemed to be the more popular kid was at the party. In school though he seemed pretty powerless.

He seemed less like a bully, and more how we wish the world would view bullies: impotent and desperate for attention.

Silver Crusade

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Irontruth wrote:
Rysky wrote:
GreenDragon1133 wrote:
The character fell flat because he wasn't credible as a bully.
That’s an assumption you are having.

I agree with GreenDragon. As a bully he fell flat, because multiple times he tried to put Parker down, and multiple people around them sided with Parker. The only time that Flash really seemed to be the more popular kid was at the party. In school though he seemed pretty powerless.

He seemed less like a bully, and more how we wish the world would view bullies: impotent and desperate for attention.

Yeah, and?


Well Its kind of a weird thought but to make flash seem weaker simultaneously makes peter seem weaker. Rated against your "enemies" I suppose. Kind of like how they spent so much time making hammer into a putz in iron man 2 made him seem so less threatening. Flash being a joke and still bullying peter makes peter look weaker as well. You could probably attribute it somewhat to this being after peter is already spider man and has his confidence improved. (I mean he was on the avengers that has got to boost it.)

Plus Some people might be fans of the new(ish) venom which is flash and They make the character into a joke.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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IIRC, it's really only the Academic Decathalon team that regularly sided with Pete over Flash--probably because Peter has actually contributed to the team whereas Flash has just been coasting on the success of the others.

That seems to be what's really driving Flash's bullying in the new film. Flash is not as smart as he thinks he is (see the physics question at the beginning, or how he takes credit for the championship win despite not answering a single question). He can't admit that, so he needs to blame someone for "making him look dumb". Peter is the obvious target, since he makes the brainy stuff look so effortless.

If Flash looks weak in the film, it's only because by focusing on specific parts of Peter's life we mostly see Flash when he's out of his element. It's clear that, outside the Academic Decathalon club, Flash is broadly popular.


Having watched it a second time. I too agree with Green Dragon. I still find the Flash in this version a absolute laughable joke as a bully. Everytime the character showed up on the TV my buddies and myself had to restrain ourselves from laughing. The actor portraying the character did the brst with what he was given in terms of script. Yet Flash felt more like the spoiled rich kid who can't understand why Peter was better than him as a person on do many levels.


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Not every Flash Thompson will be the dickish kind.


I'm not disputing that. Once again nothing against the actor portraying Flash. Yet I found him as intimidating as a bowl of ostmeal imo. Nothing that realistically makes him a threat in anyway, shape or form towards Peter Parker. Here is a guy who fights the Vulture and other supervillians. Compared to that the current version of Flash is a joke.

Unlike Hollywood movies. Where people who run their mouths never face any kind of repercussion. In the real world Flash would get his butt handed to him.


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Michelle was a more effective bully than Eugene/Flash.


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Homecoming was the first movie to have flash act like he did in the comics. Flash in the comics bullied Peter verbally, not physically.


Milo v3 wrote:
Homecoming was the first movie to have flash act like he did in the comics. Flash in the comics bullied Peter verbally, not physically.

Depends on how far back you go. At one point their was a certain boxing match and flash got kncoked silly and after that he kept with the verbal abuse and cut out the physical (scared him one would imagine.)


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The Thing From Another World wrote:

I'm not disputing that. Once again nothing against the actor portraying Flash. Yet I found him as intimidating as a bowl of ostmeal imo. Nothing that realistically makes him a threat in anyway, shape or form towards Peter Parker. Here is a guy who fights the Vulture and other supervillians. Compared to that the current version of Flash is a joke.

Unlike Hollywood movies. Where people who run their mouths never face any kind of repercussion. In the real world Flash would get his butt handed to him.

Of course he's not a threat to Spider-man. No normal school kid is going to be a threat to Spider-man. He was a bully to Peter Parker, from before he became Spider-man.

The challenge afterwards was dealing with him without blowing his secret identity or showing how the nerdy wimp Peter Parker was suddenly tougher than the jock.

I don't know what kind of real world you live, but in mine plenty of bullies run their mouths, or their fists, without getting their butts handed to them. The bully getting his comeuppance when the protagonist finally stands up to him seems more of Hollywood thing to me.


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GreenDragon1133 wrote:

Just finished watching this on disc.

They made Eugene Thompson part of the academic decathlon team, a social bully, and DJ Flash. Because Midtown Science and Technology School doesn't have a sports team.

So why do they have:
1) a football field?
2) a school mascot?
3) cheerleaders?

As someone who went to a high school kinda sorta like this in Brooklyn, you'd be surprised just how much stuff is handed down to a school just 'cuz.

MURROW FOREVER WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO UNDEFEATED CHESS TEAM


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The Thing From Another World wrote:

I'm not disputing that. Once again nothing against the actor portraying Flash. Yet I found him as intimidating as a bowl of ostmeal imo. Nothing that realistically makes him a threat in anyway, shape or form towards Peter Parker. Here is a guy who fights the Vulture and other supervillians. Compared to that the current version of Flash is a joke.

Unlike Hollywood movies. Where people who run their mouths never face any kind of repercussion. In the real world Flash would get his butt handed to him.

Again, as someone who went to a school like this IRL, a comic book flash bully would NOT WORK in this enviornment.

He made a lot of sense in the movie as is. And I watched it with my best friend who went to the same school as I did, he wholeheartedly agreed.


thejeff wrote:
The Thing From Another World wrote:

I'm not disputing that. Once again nothing against the actor portraying Flash. Yet I found him as intimidating as a bowl of ostmeal imo. Nothing that realistically makes him a threat in anyway, shape or form towards Peter Parker. Here is a guy who fights the Vulture and other supervillians. Compared to that the current version of Flash is a joke.

Unlike Hollywood movies. Where people who run their mouths never face any kind of repercussion. In the real world Flash would get his butt handed to him.

Of course he's not a threat to Spider-man. No normal school kid is going to be a threat to Spider-man. He was a bully to Peter Parker, from before he became Spider-man.

The challenge afterwards was dealing with him without blowing his secret identity or showing how the nerdy wimp Peter Parker was suddenly tougher than the jock.

I don't know what kind of real world you live, but in mine plenty of bullies run their mouths, or their fists, without getting their butts handed to them. The bully getting his comeuppance when the protagonist finally stands up to him seems more of Hollywood thing to me.

also, this.


Oh it happens. Very sweet moment of my life when I realized that if you start kicking chairs at peoples heads you'll thin the herd down to a manageable level and get some one on one time with the bully without his friends...

(met someone i still play D&D with that day...)


Then we will agree to disagree. No one here or elsewhere will ever convince me that the Flash in Homecoming was a credible bully.

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Michelle was a more effective bully than Eugene/Flash.

I'm not sure if that was the director impression yet I cannot really disagree. Then again I like Flash more than her. She came off to me at least as the kind of person who had either no parenting growing up. Or parents that spoiled her imo. She came off as incredibly spoiled. With NO social filter whatsoever. It seemed the adults around her or the way the script was written as being utterly unable to deal with her.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Oh it happens. Very sweet moment of my life when I realized that if you start kicking chairs at peoples heads you'll thin the herd down to a manageable level and get some one on one time with the bully without his friends...

(met someone i still play D&D with that day...)

I'm sure it does happen, but I don't think it's as reliable an approach as the trope makes it out to be.

I just got beaten up worse and detention when I tried to fight back.


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I don't get the Michelle=bully thought. She was sarcastic and snarky, sure. But she was clearly an outsider; bullies like Flash assemble a court of followers around themselves. Michelle punched up with her criticisms and snark; Flash, like other bullies, punches down.


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Both were rather annoying, but I found Michelle to be moreso. I also agree that Flash was not a credible bully.


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Michelle was awesome.


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Nah. She was a cliché. A trope. The free-wheeling loner kid who says "Hey. It's me. Deal". Same old same old. YMMV of course...

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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Tropes are not bad.

The movie was clearly going for a John Hughes vibe, and Michelle the weird snarky loner kid helped sell that.

I thought Zendaya's performance was great, and that she had some legitimately funny bits--drawing in detention was my favorite. I also appreciated the hints they were dropping that Michelle is figuring out Pete's secret.


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She reminded me of my daughter.

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