Dragon Disciple and Primal Bloodrager

[FrodoOf9Fingers]

Dragon disciple has a few "ability" wordings that confuse me when combined with the Primal archetype of the bloodrager.

Primal wrote:

Primal Choices: At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, a primalist can choose to take either his bloodline power or two barbarian rage powers. If the primalist chooses rage powers, those rage powers can be used in conjunction with his bloodrage, and his bloodrager level acts as his barbarian level when determining the effect of those bloodrage powers and any prerequisites. Any other prerequisites for a rage power must be met before a primalist can choose it. This ability does not count as the rage power class feature for determining feat prerequisites and other requirements.

Dragon Disciple Abilities in Question wrote:

Breath Weapon (Su): At 3rd level, a dragon disciple gains the breath weapon bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power. Once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the dragon disciple gains an additional use of his breath weapon each day. The type and shape of the breath weapon depends on the type of dragon selected by the dragon disciple, as detailed under the Draconic sorcerer bloodline description.

Wings (Su): At 9th level, a dragon disciple gains the wings bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power. Once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the dragon disciple's speed increases to 90 feet.

What happens if I trade my breath weapon or wings away for 2 rage powers?

A. I can't.
B. I can, but I don't get them when I take levels in dragon disciple. (RAI I think)
C. I can, and I still get them as I take levels in dragon disciple. (RAW?)

Thanks in advance!

[Calth]

I would rule that you should treat the DD abilities as improvements on the base abilities and by the archetype rules when you get an improved version of a base ability you lost you get the base ability.

So kinda C but without the DD ability improvements.

[Andre Roy]

You get them as they are granted by you Dragon Disciple's level (and not your Bloodrager's level). However you do not gain the second breath weapon attack use, nor the speed increase as you traded that Bloodrager Bloodline Power for Rage Power and thus never gain them as a Bloodrager.

[Bob Bob Bob]

I would say B. The DD abilities say "even if his level does not yet grant that power". If you trade something out using Primalist you cannot get it back using DD because your level will never grant those powers. The Breath Weapon entry doesn't say "If they get the Breath Weapon power later", it says "Once they get the power". That being said, it's irrelevant for Wings unless you're level 21 (12 levels Bloodrager, 9 DD).

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

I would say B. The DD abilities say "even if his level does not yet grant that power". If you trade something out using Primalist you cannot get it back using DD because your level will never grant those powers. The Breath Weapon entry doesn't say "If they get the Breath Weapon power later", it says "Once they get the power". That being said, it's irrelevant for Wings unless you're level 21 (12 levels Bloodrager, 9 DD).

Actually, could be level 17 with Robes of Arcane Heritage, right?

Robes of Arcane Heritage:

Robes of Arcane Heritage

Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th

Slot body; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Description

These elegant, dark purple and royal blue robes are usually decorated with gold stitching depicting a sorcerer bloodline, though some indicate a family tree. The stitching changes to match the sorcerer bloodline of the wearer. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.

Construction

Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, creator must be a sorcerer; Cost 8,000 gp

[Lady-J]

dragon disciple works weird with bloodrager as it doesn't level the bloodragers bloodline abilities but instead gives them the sorcerer blood line so you would only be able to trade away your bloodrager bloodline powers for rage powers and not your dragon disciple abilities

[Bob Bob Bob]

Bloodrager can't use the robes, but I completely forgot that they made Blood of Dragons work with Bloodrager. Which leads to a much more complicated question, as Primalist can only trade out powers every four levels of Primalist. If you take levels of DD in anything but multiples of 4 then you won't have a bloodline power that level to trade away. Can you trade out a power if you don't get one that level? Do you choose whether to trade your next power or do you give up your last power?

[Lady-J]

interesting i didn't know they fixed it but primalist still requires you to use bloodrager levels to get the bloodrager bloodline powers to be able to trade them away

[FrodoOf9Fingers]

So this only becomes an issue if you hit level 8 before going into DD.

Trying to come up with a good natural attack build, and thought that DD getting a 1.5str bite, along with two claw attacks was great, plus the +str.