Hey all!
I'll be running the Fort Rannick encounter soon and from my point of view, it's one of the coolest instances in the AP, probably the best one at that point in time, and I'd REALLY like to give it a power punch. So, I'm looking for some suggestions (changes from the AP are welcome!) from GMs on how to really make the re-taking a blast for my PCs.
What is the makeup of your PC party ?
I've got a Fighter/Alchemist, a Rogue/Shadowdancer, a Cleric (Luck/Air) and a Monk/Wizard.
Independent on party setup: don't bring the surviving Black Arrows...
I've got Jakadros and Vale plus Shalelu and two new recruits (one is Orik) in tow due to me tinkering with the transition from book 2 to 3.
While I still think the transition was much better than as written I did not foresee what that meant for the rest of the module.
The pure mass of combatants makes it a pain--it's not just that the encounters are a joke (as written) but the pure time which is spent per round sloooooooows combat down.
The PCs potentially know all about the fort which takes away the feeling of exploration.
The encounters outside were OK as I just doubled the ogres involved and added another class level to each of them but now, inside... not so good.
As general advice: make sure to have a more dynamic environment.
- The ogres not responding at all to fighting in such a small keep is just not realistic. Even if they don't conclude that an attack was at large, I'd have them investigate to join the fun or bet on the winner/loser...
- Make the keep bigger, more space means more options for manouvering which I always consider a plus.
- Get rid of the single opponent encounters.
- Add at least one divine caster, say a priestess of Lamashtu. Have her reside in the chapel and move Papy to somewhere else where he can train some lesser ogres (using them as cannon fodder in a fight).
- Add a trap or two (though that was more of a Kreeg thing, I personally like this element of play).
- Think about what you want to do with L. To me, where she is "stationed" feels like an afterthough "Darn, we need to put her somewhere... ah, just design a cellar..." IMC, Valen escaped and has weasled his way to her so that encounter hopefully is more fun.
Ruyan.
You can add combatants or toughen them up and RuyanVe makes some good suggestions along those lines but you can also do quite a bit by changing the npc tactics as written (which RuyanVe also mentions.)
Now the AP is written with middle-of-the-road or perhaps non-optimized tactics to account for the broad range of pc groups that might be making their way through the campaign. So GM's need to tailor the tactics challenge their own group.
No creature should stay in its lair or initial location when its neighbors, like in the next room or across the courtyard, are fighting for their lives. Every npc doesn't have to converge on the combat at once - you can send them in waves, this lets you take your foot off the gas pedal if the pc's are getting overwhelmed.
One significant improvement in challenge would be to make far better use of Lucretia than the AP tactics suggest, implying as they do that she is most likely encountered in her room. And that when she is confronted, she changes into her natural form and attacks. These tactics are, to put it kindly, poor.
First, she can cast charm monster at will. Most if not all the ogres in the keep should be her willing pets. When trouble starts, one of the ogres should alert her perhaps even before the clan leaders. I nominate Silas, he's just up the stairs and bears Jaagrath no love. She should rally groups of ogres to confront the pc's, enhancing them with haste, healing them if needed, use her wand of scorching rays or other powers to harass the pc's from behind her ogre meat shields, go invisible at annoying moments, etc. just like pc spellcasters do. Whenever one group of ogres falls, she dimensions doors to another. Lather, rinse, repeat. Don't forget she has illusion powers too. Images of allies arriving from nearby stairs or across the courtyard, etc. can trick the pc's into attacking or retreating as she needs. Perhaps an image of Jaagrath can motivate the ogres... Or an image of her sister can dismay or distract the pc's.
She cares not for the ogres simply seeing them as tools but she wants the dam taken out and views any assault on the keep as a threat to that. It's unlikely word of Xanesha's fate has reached Lucretia but if she knows something of that or can recognize the pc's she might make a focused effort at vengeance. Though she saves one dimension door to flee to the clan hold - where she does the same thing for/with the creatures there. If you do it right, the pc's should hate her but good by the time you're finished.
I will second (or third) the motion to utilize Lucretia better. Lucretia's a very big-picture sort of villain. Catastrophic mass murder is definitely more her cup of tea than getting her hands dirty. Not that it's entirely beneath her, but she strikes me as the type of villain that likes to play with their food before eating it. Think about how bored she must be here, waiting in the friggin basement! I used her to taunt the party via Major Image: she placed a duplicate of herself next to each PC while they were fighting ogres on the battlements inviting them to visit her down below if they survived. I used her to fill in some of the gaps in the plot as she made them an offer to join her/ gloated over he achievements. But I digress. She's great for showing the party that while the ogres are tough, they'd be in it deep if she decided to join the battle. And/or she really could change the battle if the PCs are rolling through everything.
The corridors and rooms *are* on the smallish size for large critters like ogres. Even when you build the whole thing:
Fort Rannick (ground floor and environs)
Lucrecia needs a boost. No spellcaster does well in small rooms without masses of minions to keep the players at bay while they cast their spells. Lucrecia is lucky to get off even a single spell, where she's set up down in the dungeon. Get her outside, flying, with ogre minions to intercept stalwart PCs. And keep a good exit strategy viable for her, so she can strike back and become a recurrent threat.
I found Fort Rannick a bit anticlimactic. It was too easy for my group, even though they were a full level or more behind the suggested level for this chapter. More ogres with character levels would go far towards making them more of a challenge.
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The corridors and rooms *are* on the smallish size for large critters like ogres. Even when you build the whole thing:
Fort Rannick (ground floor and environs)Lucrecia needs a boost. No spellcaster does well in small rooms without masses of minions to keep the players at bay while they cast their spells. Lucrecia is lucky to get off even a single spell, where she's set up down in the dungeon. Get her outside, flying, with ogre minions to intercept stalwart PCs. And keep a good exit strategy viable for her, so she can strike back and become a recurrent threat.
I found Fort Rannick a bit anticlimactic. It was too easy for my group, even though they were a full level or more behind the suggested level for this chapter. More ogres with character levels would go far towards making them more of a challenge.
that's a beauty of a setup you have there.
Thanks for all of the suggestions!
My big plan was to avoid a lot of the "you enter a room and there's x amount of ogres" here because the Graul homestead felt REALLY stagnant. I'm hoping to have somewhat of a large, wave after wave, courtyard battle (adjusting Ogre numbers and strength as needed). I really want my PCs to feel like they're retaking the fort, but I also want them to have to work together and use their environment to their advantage such as the crumbling tower and the sketchy barracks.
I already planned to leave the Black Arrows out of most of the fighting, playing up the horrors of their time at the Graul's, they'd be in no fighting condition any time soon to avoid, as people said, bogging down the combat with a bunch of NPC movement.
I'm looking forward to toying with my party with Lucrecia as their fight with Xanesha ended up in two deaths and the party temporarily disbanding after our fighter turned on the party to help Xanesha (she promised him power to save his people). He's since found Sarenrae and is on a path of redemption and I'm sure he's eager to settle the score and Lucrecia is just as eager to twist that knife of betrayal again. Assuming she knows of this from the chain of command, since Xanesha was wearing a Sihedron Medallion and that would all scrying from Karzoug.
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I just read this chapter in my hardcover version of the campaign.
It seems to me that the Giant Eagles all getting killed before the PCs arrive might be a bit of a waste.
When the ogres are pouring into the courtyard as suggested above, with Lucretia throwing a spell around, maybe drop a few giant eagles on them adding to the chaos and epic-ness of the encounter.
At the same time make plans ahead for the encounters in the upper level of the keep and factor in whether your party had time to rest or not.
My party just went up the stairs sneaked to B31 and opened the door. The battle triggered Pappy arriving on the scene... just beautiful when the casters stay back and are surprised by a big brute going before them and critting with both attacks...
The group barely defeated him and the others.
Why Dorella and her lover (B32) didn't show up as well? Well...
Lucrecia is still on the move and had her first appearance on the ground floor using major image to good effect.
Ruyan.
I just read this chapter in my hardcover version of the campaign.
It seems to me that the Giant Eagles all getting killed before the PCs arrive might be a bit of a waste.
When the ogres are pouring into the courtyard as suggested above, with Lucretia throwing a spell around, maybe drop a few giant eagles on them adding to the chaos and epic-ness of the encounter.
That's what I thought too, but never thought of adding them to the battle! The alliance with the Eagles is never really expressly talked about in the actual story, but it's such a nice little flavour. Perhaps, during the planning phase when the Black Arrows are detailing possible tactics, they can mention the Eagles could have helped, but are likely all dead now. That way they're introduced and can be an option to drop in if things get hairy in the courtyard.
Also, I'm trying to think of some environmental things that could happen, like having one character need to manually close a gate to stop more enemies from coming (I know this wouldn't work well in this scenario, but something along those lines). Suggestions on that?
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I just read this chapter in my hardcover version of the campaign.
It seems to me that the Giant Eagles all getting killed before the PCs arrive might be a bit of a waste.
When the ogres are pouring into the courtyard as suggested above, with Lucretia throwing a spell around, maybe drop a few giant eagles on them adding to the chaos and epic-ness of the encounter.
That's what I thought too, but never thought of adding them to the battle! The alliance with the Eagles is never really expressly talked about in the actual story, but it's such a nice little flavour. Perhaps, during the planning phase when the Black Arrows are detailing possible tactics, they can mention the Eagles could have helped, but are likely all dead now. That way they're introduced and can be an option to drop in if things get hairy in the courtyard.
Also, I'm trying to think of some environmental things that could happen, like having one character need to manually close a gate to stop more enemies from coming (I know this wouldn't work well in this scenario, but something along those lines). Suggestions on that?
well... and this is just a thought... but the fortress was attacked suddenly and not all its defenses were deployed.
maybe there's a big rock slide ready to go as a final defense. a second horde of ogres coming up can either get crushed in the courtyard, or maybe just outside the walls. or there's some traps inside the keep itself that the PCs can trigger to defend against ogres - use some of their nasty tactics against them!
Depending on what you've described to them already a well placed fire ball or similar could cause one of the buildings outside to collapse. Maybe you can place it somewhere else in the courtyard for greate effect.
Put portcullis in one of the gates, even B16!--maybe your group needs to escape by running away and they trigger the portcullis.
Ruyan.
Depending on what you've described to them already a well placed fire ball or similar could cause one of the buildings outside to collapse. Maybe you can place it somewhere else in the courtyard for greate effect.
Put portcullis in one of the gates, even B16!--maybe your group needs to escape by running away and they trigger the portcullis.
Ruyan.
So, currently, I'm having the Black Arrows give them some insight on the base and possible tactics, but because of their wounds they suffered from their time at the Grauls', they are unable to aid in battle (I don't want to give them extra help, nor bog down battle with NPC turns). However, my plan is to have Kaven away from the recovering Black Arrows and make it to the Fort ahead of the PCs and set traps. One of them being, if the PCs get close enough to the tower, having him collapse it on them before trapping some important doors within the base before alerting Lucrecia.
Now, some more logistical questions because I can't seem to find the info anywhere. How deep would you say the river around the fort is? I'm thinking 10 feet and then increasing in depth by the waterfall to 20-25 feet. Also, are the ogres stationed at the gates on the walls or are they guarding on the ground outside the walls or inside the walls?
According to information on page 149 AE you're correct about the creek's depth. The pond is 30 ft deep (p. 151, B9).
Regarding the ogres' whereabouts: I had them inside on the ground. I reasoned that the upper level of the towers guarding the gates were similarly built to the ones in the keep and thus not accessible for the ogres.
Ruyan.
According to information on page 149 AE you're correct about the creek's depth. The pond is 30 ft deep (p. 151, B9).
Regarding the ogres' whereabouts: I had them inside on the ground. I reasoned that the upper level of the towers guarding the gates were similarly built to the ones in the keep and thus not accessible for the ogres.
Ruyan.
Well, the AP says that the south gate is guarded by three ogres along with Minktuck. Other than that, you're correct, the rest of them are just causing mayhem.
The AP is pretty clear - the ogre on guard at B2 is distracted and the 4 on guard at B8 are not. In both cases they are explicitly described as "posted" or "on watch" so they are guarding not aimlessly milling about. Putting them on the ground inside the keep makes absolutely no sense since from that position they could see nothing of the surrounding area or anyone approaching the keep. This doesn't require a military genius to figure out just eyes that work. I'd also suggest the art on p. 129 of the AE version suggests the ogres scaled the walls in their own attack so they should expect that to be a thing to watch against.
The map on p. 148 (upper right, with 1 square = 20 feet) suggests the outer walls are well more than 10 feet wide, perhaps as much as 20. I see no reason the ogres could not be stationed anywhere along the wall. Most likely right over or near the gate.