Inquisitor Help: Too many options, not enough obvious winners


Homebrew and House Rules

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ChaosTicket wrote:


Youre arguing your taking things out of context to fit your side point. Sorry I forget some people will dump every stat to max out strength. To me any hybrid class with casting and therefore a mental stat requirement has reduced strength compared to a purely physical class. a 16 strength inquisitor is legal and reasonable.

A 16 Strength Inquisitor is a poor and sub-optimal decision. (Unless you are focusing on an Archer build and have to pump Dex.)

An Inquisitor is primarily a self-buffing martial class with some utility and debuff spells. There is no necessity to start with a Wis over 14. The Inquisitor never really needs a Wis higher than 16 so he/she can get access to 6th lvl spells. The character can achieve that 16 Wis by starting with 14 and spending 4K gold on the appropriate headband. Anything more is wasted resources.


Sorry Chaos but there are way too many "must haves" on your list. Is point blank master mandatory? Heck no, unless you plan to melee every encounter...most archers shouldnt be in that position...when it comes up, you can use litany of sloth to move out of that rough spot and nuke the person who dared threaten you. Really you are so focused on melee with a bow you are forgetting the most important things. Keeping distance.

To give a idea how my inquisitor goes, he uses his animal companion as a meat shield to keep distance IF he had to go melee spend a standard to lose a teamwork for outflank. So with a mace and his spells in effect (level 8 he is at +19/+14 1D6+7 +2d6..(not counting bane) while flanking with his companion (not to mention all the nasty damage a large tiger is doing to the opponent on top)...not bad for a mace and no real feats to back it up at level 8


Point Blank Master is totally not necessary. I've already went through this earlier in the thread.

Point Blank Master is nice, if I have access to it I always take it. But it's not necessary to be effective. In fact, it only comes up when s&~# goes sideways and you don't have anyone running interference to protect you. Although, since you're have medium armor and a high dex you should actually have a pretty good AC. And unless you're up against monster that have a big reach advantage you can 5ft step out of their threatened area and still full attack.


I dont think i have even ever taken PBM on a character before... Its an odd choice to deem mandatory considering the feat is soft locked to the Fighter class. Rangers can get it with one of their combat styles so that lets in Slayers as well. Magus get Fighter Training at level 10 so they can join the club. So 4 out of 43 classes can be "acceptable" archers under that criteria. We could look at archetypes that add ranger combat styles or allow you to count as fighter... but that is too much for me to crawl through. Although i know, and it has been pointed out already, that Inquisitors have an archetype that can access Ranger Combat Styles, so they already get a pass into the elite club of acceptable archers even if they can only take PBM at level 16 but hey, its a high bar set to get that feat.


Inquisitor can get it if they go Sanctified Slayer. Warpriest too with their bonus feats that count as fighter levels. There are probably others I don't know about too.

There are quite a few classes with tricks to gain Point Blank Master, but that doesn't make it mandatory.

Liberty's Edge

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Inquisitor is one of my top 3 favorite classes, precisely because they can do a bit of everything, even though they aren't necessarily the best at things other than monster knowledge or sense motive (Personally, I always go Conversion Inquisition and like 16 wisdom for the extra +1 to lots of things). If the Inquisitor is as good at hitting things in the face (or shooting them in the face) and still has its other options, then why would anybody play a fighter?.

As for Point Blank Master, if it's necessary for a good archer build then all those Archer Paladins near the top of the DPR Olympics must not be good builds...


Dustin Heaton wrote:

Inquisitor is one of my top 3 favorite classes, precisely because they can do a bit of everything, even though they aren't necessarily the best at things other than monster knowledge or sense motive (Personally, I always go Conversion Inquisition and like 16 wisdom for the extra +1 to lots of things). If the Inquisitor is as good at hitting things in the face (or shooting them in the face) and still has its other options, then why would anybody play a fighter?.

As for Point Blank Master, if it's necessary for a good archer build then all those Archer Paladins near the top of the DPR Olympics must not be good builds...

The problem with the DPR Olympics is that they assume you are not always, in every round, in melee range of everything. See, its not a realistic assumption.


I think I've seen once or twice a situation where you couldn't 5ft back and full attack. Things don't normally start on top of a ranged character, and if anything charges you it'll be at max reach so a 5ft works.

And if it comes up that someone has reach and is on top of you, delay for the frontline to run in and take the AoO, or you take the 1 AoO and full attack.


ChaosTicket wrote:
Having a lot of feats for the sake of having them isnt the point but that fighting styles require them to specialize to the point of being crippled. A Glass cannon Inquisitor is easy and even Iconic. So how to improve upon that design? A Ranged Build requires Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Snap Shot, and Point Blank Master just to be able to attack without penalties.

Incorrect. A Ranged build only needs the first two. The second two are for those ranged shooters who insist on being in melee.

I would not call two feats for ranged combat to be a crippling amount. Two feats do the basics for most builds... the rest are gravy.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:
Having a lot of feats for the sake of having them isnt the point but that fighting styles require them to specialize to the point of being crippled. A Glass cannon Inquisitor is easy and even Iconic. So how to improve upon that design? A Ranged Build requires Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Snap Shot, and Point Blank Master just to be able to attack without penalties.

Incorrect. A Ranged build only needs the first two. The second two are for those ranged shooters who insist on being in melee.

I would not call two feats for ranged combat to be a crippling amount. Two feats do the basics for most builds... the rest are gravy.

And as niche as cleaving finish or improved sunder for a THW build. They are things you CAN take if you want and have room for. But they aren't required to pull off the combat style.


i would call Rapid Shot and Manyshot vastly more popular for ranged builds but even then, they are not mandatory.


There is too much debate here with people basically arguing situations Ive been in dont exist so I should ignore them.

Im working through my own experiences so when you say you dont need more than a minimal Wisdom Ill just point out the enemy that Wisdom drained party members so you cannot even cure it.

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

Now if you can do that good on you. I like being prepared. Ive pointed out repeatedly how I dont like specialized min-maxed builds for Glass Cannon types characters. I dont dump all my starting points to get a strength 20 character.

Yes I am looking for an ideal Inquisitor. For an Inquisitor it would be a Virtuoso in skills with strong basic fighting ability that goes Up To Eleven whenever a buff ability is activated.

So please dont tell me I dont need [blank].


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You need to readjust your expectations of classes in this game and understand better how this game operates.

Archery is functional at all ranges. If someone is next to you, you step away or deal with the AoO.
Snapshot isn't likely to trigger much since you should be keeping your distance from people and playing to your strengths, not your weaknesses.

You don't need more than a 16 ever on an inquisitor for all of it's features to work. Sure a higher one would make things a little better. But it's not required, nor is that 16 required from the start.

YOU DON'T NEED THESE THINGS. YOU JUST WANT THESE THINGS. THE CLASS IS COMPLETELY FUNCTIONAL AND SUCCESSFUL.


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ChaosTicket wrote:
So please dont tell me I dont need [blank].

You don't "need" it.

You WANT it.

There's a difference.

A 14 Wisdom isn't "minimal;" it's well above what the vast majority of characters out there have. Starting higher isn't necessary (as in, isn't "needed"), and basing that decision on the one or two times during your character's entire adventuring career that you will go up against a Wisdom draining enemy is pretty funny. (Seriously, though, what Martial types have you been playing that typically had higher than a 14 Wisdom at 1st level? None of the Martials really benefit from a high Wisdom, and pumping it that high detracts from the stats that most Martials really do "need" to function.)

But, what it boils down to is that Inquisitor probably doesn't fit your playing style.


ChaosTicket wrote:

There is too much debate here with people basically arguing situations Ive been in dont exist so I should ignore them.

Im working through my own experiences so when you say you dont need more than a minimal Wisdom Ill just point out the enemy that Wisdom drained party members so you cannot even cure it.

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

Now if you can do that good on you. I like being prepared. Ive pointed out repeatedly how I dont like specialized min-maxed builds for Glass Cannon types characters.

Yes I am looking for an ideal Inquisitor. For an Inquisitor it would be a Virtuoso in skills with strong basic fighting ability that goes Up To Eleven whenever a buff ability is activated.

So please dont tell me I dont need [blank].

So in all honesty, what i am getting from your posts is that you want a character that has a response or defense to everything you have seen happen at the table and then the ability to "boost" skills and damage outside of those responses. If that is the case than i would reiterate what Chess Pwn has been saying, this is not that kind of game. you must accept that your character will have not just areas you cant excel in but also some actual weaknesses. that is an inherent part of the game. when people post "super builds" what they are really saying is that they have 80% solutions to what you want but no one gets to 100% in a real table situation.

To get you closer to your goal, have you considered throwing weapons? you can melee with them at no penalty and still use them at range. An inquisitor of Desna can get by pretty well with just Charisma and Wisdom.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
ChaosTicket wrote:

There is too much debate here with people basically arguing situations Ive been in dont exist so I should ignore them.

Im working through my own experiences so when you say you dont need more than a minimal Wisdom Ill just point out the enemy that Wisdom drained party members so you cannot even cure it.

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

Now if you can do that good on you. I like being prepared. Ive pointed out repeatedly how I dont like specialized min-maxed builds for Glass Cannon types characters.

Yes I am looking for an ideal Inquisitor. For an Inquisitor it would be a Virtuoso in skills with strong basic fighting ability that goes Up To Eleven whenever a buff ability is activated.

So please dont tell me I dont need [blank].

If there were a way to get everything you say you want, this game would not be fun. You have to make some choices, people are just trying to help you make better ones.


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Hey guys, not to hijack the thread, but I've been looking for a wizard build.

I like that the class can cast spells to basically alter the reality of the world around them and really turn the tides against opponents, but there are just a few things that irk me.

1) Not enough health or armor
2) Standard action cast times
3) Can't cast on opponents turns
4) Weak fort and reflex saves
5) Has to think about what spells I know on any given day

So, can you give me a build that meets the following requirements:
1) Can cast any spell at will from my spell book like a sorcerer
2) Can cast all spells as immediate actions to respond to imminent threats
3) Can wear full plate and get Int to AC instead of Dex
4) Gets at least 3/4 BAB to make touch attacks easier
5) Can reroll saving throws

Get back to me or I'm going to declare Wizards non-viable.


ChaosTicket wrote:

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

For the vast majority of such situations, most shooters have this free trick that costs no feats at all.. called the 5 foot step.


Why are your responding if you think what I am working for is impossible?


ChaosTicket wrote:
Why are your responding if you think what I am working for is impossible?

You assume they thought you were being unreasonable at first. That was only made evident as this unfolded.

The real question isn't why they're responding, but why you're ignoring the preponderance of people who did.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
ChaosTicket wrote:
Why are your responding if you think what I am working for is impossible?

Some very generous people are trying to save you the frustration.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

For the vast majority of such situations, most shooters have this free trick that costs no feats at all.. called the 5 foot step.

Counters my deal GiRL. Step Up, prepare actions, reach weapons, combat reflexes, etc.

Do you seriously get into situations where you never get countered?


KingOfAnything wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:
Why are your responding if you think what I am working for is impossible?
Some very generous people are trying to save you the frustration.

Honestly this could be cut down massively if anyone who thinks things arent possible just stop responding.

Actually Ill just show what I have now to see if anyone have suggestions of improvement.
------------------------
Half-Orc (Sanctified Slayer) Inquisitor of the Black Powder Inquisition

starting stats str 14, dex 16, con 14, int 12, wisdom 15, cha 7

Alternative racial ability: sacred Tattoos, Shaman's Apprentice

Traits: Fate's Favored, Focused mind

level 1 point blank shot
3 Precise Shot
5 Weapon Focus(rifle)
7 Rapid Reload(rifle)
8(bonus) Point Blank Master
9 Snap Shot
11 Rapid Shot
13 Iron Will
15 Improved Precise Shot


ChaosTicket wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

For the vast majority of such situations, most shooters have this free trick that costs no feats at all.. called the 5 foot step.

Counters my deal GiRL. Step Up, prepare actions, reach weapons, combat reflexes, etc.

Do you seriously get into situations where you never get countered?

dude, there is literally a counter for everything but not every schmuck you run across in the game is going to have them. i dont walk around in a bullet proof vest every day because some people have guns. characters have weaknesses. its just a fact. yes, you can build them up to minimize those weaknesses but itll take time. so inquisitors take longer to get to pbm then fighters but theyre also a lot more well rounded while theyre getting there. you cant be superman out of the box. being a half orc inquisitor of erastil with the conversion inquisition is probably going to give you the best start but theres no build that can do everything. thats why this game is built around parties.

Liberty's Edge

ChaosTicket wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

For the vast majority of such situations, most shooters have this free trick that costs no feats at all.. called the 5 foot step.

Counters my deal GiRL. Step Up, prepare actions, reach weapons, combat reflexes, etc.

Do you seriously get into situations where you never get countered?

If you're that obsessed with trying to get rid of counters, then what about wind wall? Counters are a part of the game. If there were a class that got around all counters, then there would be no reason to play anything else.

Liberty's Edge

As far as weapon proficiencies go: the above racial methods are viable. Dwarves and Half-Orcs hands down for weapon ability and survival features.

Alternatively, Inquisitors have Bestow Weapon Proficiency on their class list, and it's a worthy choice for combat utility.

It sounds like you want to build a super switch hitter. It can be done, and it's generally how I play. Still it takes a very Batman approach.

Race: Dwarf/Half-orc
Domain:Tactics

Stat array: Dwarf
STR: 15
DEX: 14
CON: 12 (+2)
INT: 12
WIS: 12 (+2)
CHA: 12 (-2)
Traits: Glory of Old, Zest for Battle/Grounded/Defensive Strategist
1st level feat: Steel Soul or Point Blank Shot

Stat array: Half-Orc
STR: 14
DEX: 14
CON: 10 (+2)
INT: 14
WIS: 14
CHA: 10
Traits: Tusked/Veteran of Battle(for melee threat if ranged), Armored Expert or River Rat
1st Level Feat: Adaptability or Point Blank Shot

The Dwarf will have better saves right out the gate while the Half Orc will have better skills and hitpoints. Both are built around a no weakness stat array.

Feats by level
3: Power Attack or Point Blank Shot
5: Barroom Brawler
7: Improved Unarmed Strike
9: Snake Style
11: Precise Shot, Versatyle Weapon, or Two Weapon Fighting

Pretty much the build centers around your ability to quickly swap feats. At level three for a minute a day you can switch hit or focus on archery. Level 4 you can swap out teamwork feats and any other combat feat you need for a minute. At level 8; you're fully up for any combat. Two swapable feats (thanks to Barroom Brawler and Weapon Master) and swapable teamwork feats. With Bane/Judgement/Spell use: you outfight anything you focus on. Ontop of that Snake style let's you use a skill check(sense motive) as armor class. Inquistiors are ridiculously good at sense motive.

I hope that helps.


ChaosTicket wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:
Why are your responding if you think what I am working for is impossible?
Some very generous people are trying to save you the frustration.

Honestly this could be cut down massively if anyone who thinks things arent possible just stop responding.

Actually Ill just show what I have now to see if anyone have suggestions of improvement.
------------------------
Half-Orc (Sanctified Slayer) Inquisitor of the Black Powder Inquisition

starting stats str 14, dex 16, con 14, int 12, wisdom 15, cha 7

Alternative racial ability: sacred Tattoos, Shaman's Apprentice

Traits: Fate's Favored, Focused mind

level 1 point blank shot
3 Precise Shot
5 Weapon Focus(rifle)
7 Rapid Reload(rifle)
8(bonus) Point Blank Master
9 Snap Shot
11 Rapid Shot
13 Iron Will
15 Improved Precise Shot

So how do you see this character playing out? Some things that concern me, you have proficiency with Firearms but dont start out with one. what will you do until then? it could take a few levels to save up the 1,500Gp for a Musket... which takes me to my next question, you keep saying rifle in your build plan, how are you getting one? I dont think they are available in PFS and most home games are hesitant to allow WWII weapons at the table. even then and with the GMs aproval, you would have to sink 2,500GP into crafting your own. that is hefty. And if you GM allows it (it is called out throughout the firearms that the Rifle is only supposed to exist at GMs discretion as high level loot, and Gunsmithing further says its entirely up to the GM if you can even make metal cartridges for that rifle) its still 7 GP per attack roll if you are staying up all night making your own bullets for that thing. You could get around this with a Shadowshooting enchantment but thats another load of gold to drop onto an expensive weapon and without a lot of static modifiers to drop onto your gun its not super efefctive.

Anyways, past your rifle and the time to get it online, at level 8 you can get a Slayer Talent, that would let you take the Ranger Combat Style Talent, that specifically says when you first take it you can only choose from the first line of feats, Point Blank Master is from the second line of feats and you could only get that one with a second Ranger Combat Style Talent. Its technically not allowed but reasonable to assume a GM would allow Talented Slayer to qualify you for the feat "Extra Slayer Talent" that would let you grab PBM but you dont have space in your build for that until level 9.

Where is your damage coming from in your build? you get 1 from PBS if you are close enough but if you are able to get that rifle than you really wouldnt want to be that close. you get whatever enchantments you can grab for your rifle but that is a long way off considering how much you need to sink in just to get your rifle. you wont ever get to add a stat modifier to your damage rolls either. you will get a +1 to hit and damage from studied target that increases 1 point every 5 levels. Thankfully Studied Target has no range limit on when it can be applied. Divine Favor will add a few extra points in there as well.

But here is where i am going with this, the rifle may guarantee you will hit but lets look at your level 10 damage. you've gone all in and spent 20,500GP on a +3 rifle. you studied your target with a swift action for +3 and self buffed Divine Favor going up to +4 with Fate's Favored. Now on round two you get to swift action Bane and attack. who cares about your attack roll, you will hit with 1D10+2D6+12. +13 if you are within 30'. And your average damage with that comes out to 24 per hit. This is not much to be putting out with three buffs at level 10.

There are ways to work with it, there are ways to boost your speed up to 60 or more pretty easily so you could shoot and scoot to try to stay out of melee and pick off enemies over time but your damage output isnt going to be very competitive as is.


ChaosTicket wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:
Why are your responding if you think what I am working for is impossible?
Some very generous people are trying to save you the frustration.

Honestly this could be cut down massively if anyone who thinks things arent possible just stop responding.

Actually Ill just show what I have now to see if anyone have suggestions of improvement.
------------------------
Half-Orc (Sanctified Slayer) Inquisitor of the Black Powder Inquisition

starting stats str 14, dex 16, con 14, int 12, wisdom 15, cha 7

Alternative racial ability: sacred Tattoos, Shaman's Apprentice

Traits: Fate's Favored, Focused mind

level 1 point blank shot
3 Precise Shot
5 Weapon Focus(rifle)
7 Rapid Reload(rifle)
8(bonus) Point Blank Master
9 Snap Shot
11 Rapid Shot
13 Iron Will
15 Improved Precise Shot

Question what level are you starting at?

Your accuracy is high but damage is likely on the low side (though I would have to sit down and actually check the numbers). Obviously, most of the damage will come from the static damage you add study, bane and divine favour. But you are giving up your first round which can suck. Sneak attack is hard to use with ranged attacks and if you are using your fist round to buff you wont get the jump with initiative to get it first round, so your losing a major benefit of the archetype. My guess is that deadly aim will dramatically increase the average damage of the build because you are hyper accurate. So will many shot either is a good substitute for Snapshot.

If you are starting at level 1 its going to be a long road be ready for fights where the fighter and barbarin have killed things before you take your first shot.

Other thoughts have you planned for Grapple? My experience is grapple is a killer for ranged characters.


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There is also a new, and very good, inquisitor archetype called the Ravener Hunter in the Blood of the Beast Player Companion. It does the following

Trade domain and patron deity for 2 oracle revelations (one at first and one at 8th) from a number of decent mysteries (battle is included and probably the big winner) Trading your domain for heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency, weapon focus and greater weapon focus and improved critical is a very solid trade especially for races that don't get racial weapons. (Maneuver Mastery and War Sight are great options for those races that do get good racials, cause rolling 3 times for initiative is pretty cool)

Gains all cleric spells with good descriptor at cleric level (retaining lower level if its also on the inquisitor list) but loses access to chaotic/evil/lawful spells. Generally a good trade for standard campaigns (eaglesoul is awesome).

Loses bonus teamwork feat at 3 and delayed solo tactics til 6 and gets Demon Hunter feat and bonus against demon worshipers (fairly campaign dependent).

Stacks with sanctified slayer if you want to make a really martial inquisitor character.


ChaosTicket wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:
Why are your responding if you think what I am working for is impossible?
Some very generous people are trying to save you the frustration.

Honestly this could be cut down massively if anyone who thinks things arent possible just stop responding.

Actually Ill just show what I have now to see if anyone have suggestions of improvement.
------------------------
Half-Orc (Sanctified Slayer) Inquisitor of the Black Powder Inquisition

starting stats str 14, dex 16, con 14, int 12, wisdom 15, cha 7

Alternative racial ability: sacred Tattoos, Shaman's Apprentice

Traits: Fate's Favored, Focused mind

level 1 point blank shot
3 Precise Shot
5 Weapon Focus(rifle)
7 Rapid Reload(rifle)
8(bonus) Point Blank Master
9 Snap Shot
11 Rapid Shot
13 Iron Will
15 Improved Precise Shot

You don't qualify for Point Blank Master at lv8. The first time you take a slayer talent for Ranger Combat Style you're limited to the list of feats they get at lv2. So you'd need to wait till lv16 before you can take Ranger Combat Style the second time which is when the lv6 options for ranger become available for you to pick from.

If using a gun you don't need so much str since you don't get str to anything.

Your damage is low since you only have the gun's base damage and no stats to damage.

Snapshot needs to be taken after rapid shot, not before and probably wont do you much good. With your rapid reload you're still looking at a move action to reload with paper cartridges, So if you reload and shoot your gun is empty when it would come time to take an AoO.

EDIT: I thought rifle was just a term for a 2-handed firearm, not for an advanced firearm.


Calth wrote:

There is also a new, and very good, inquisitor archetype called the Ravener Hunter in the Blood of the Beast Player Companion. It does the following

Trade domain and patron deity for 2 oracle revelations (one at first and one at 8th) from a number of decent mysteries (battle is included and probably the big winner) Trading your domain for heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency, weapon focus and greater weapon focus and improved critical is a very solid trade especially for races that don't get racial weapons. (Maneuver Mastery and War Sight are great options for those races that do get good racials, cause rolling 3 times for initiative is pretty cool)

Gains all cleric spells with good descriptor at cleric level (retaining lower level if its also on the inquisitor list) but loses access to chaotic/evil/lawful spells. Generally a good trade for standard campaigns (eaglesoul is awesome).

Loses bonus teamwork feat at 3 and delayed solo tactics til 6 and gets Demon Hunter feat and bonus against demon worshipers (fairly campaign dependent).

Stacks with sanctified slayer if you want to make a really martial inquisitor character.

Wow, that sounds like an awesome archetype.


Calth wins. That archetype is awesome. It is locked to catfolk which have a -2 to wisdom so the OP will have to rearrange the stats but it is worth it for what you get.


Malkin the Magician wrote:

Calth wins. That archetype is awesome. It is locked to catfolk which have a -2 to wisdom so the OP will have to rearrange the stats but it is worth it for what you get.

It is not actually locked to catfolk, its just listed under their section. The only requirement is a nonevil alignment.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Calth wrote:

There is also a new, and very good, inquisitor archetype called the Ravener Hunter in the Blood of the Beast Player Companion. It does the following

Trade domain and patron deity for 2 oracle revelations (one at first and one at 8th) from a number of decent mysteries (battle is included and probably the big winner) Trading your domain for heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency, weapon focus and greater weapon focus and improved critical is a very solid trade especially for races that don't get racial weapons. (Maneuver Mastery and War Sight are great options for those races that do get good racials, cause rolling 3 times for initiative is pretty cool)

Gains all cleric spells with good descriptor at cleric level (retaining lower level if its also on the inquisitor list) but loses access to chaotic/evil/lawful spells. Generally a good trade for standard campaigns (eaglesoul is awesome).

Loses bonus teamwork feat at 3 and delayed solo tactics til 6 and gets Demon Hunter feat and bonus against demon worshipers (fairly campaign dependent).

Stacks with sanctified slayer if you want to make a really martial inquisitor character.

Wow, that sounds like an awesome archetype.

It sounds like one of the beefiest, most martial 3/4 BAB (with 2/3 casting!) out there. Well, maybe matched by an Alchemist, Medium, or Bard build out there, but still pretty scary.


Calth wrote:
Malkin the Magician wrote:

Calth wins. That archetype is awesome. It is locked to catfolk which have a -2 to wisdom so the OP will have to rearrange the stats but it is worth it for what you get.

It is not actually locked to catfolk, its just listed under their section. The only requirement is a nonevil alignment.

I just looked back. Your right they are not labelled as racial archetypes and not have the Advanced Race Guild "these are available to language" I will be giving this book a closer read now.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I happen to love Inquisitors.
A 16 is the highest you really need in any stat for them. Anything else is gravy.
I played an Inquisitor to Pharasma all the way thru Carrion Crown. Not only did he perform superbly without martial weapon proficiencies, he ended up being our front line after our fighter dropped out.
I didn't do the highest damage, but I could buff my hit, or damage, or AC, whatever was needed to make the monsters much less dangerous.

I used the Souls domain (one of the better domains)

Spoiler:
Associated Domain: Repose.

Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the gentle rest power of the Repose domain.

Touch the Spirit World (Su): With a touch, you can empower a weapon to affect incorporeal creatures. The weapon touched deals half damage to incorporeal creatures, or full damage if it is a magic weapon. This benefit lasts for a number of rounds equal to your cleric level. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Between that and the 8th level power, we trivialized many undead encounters. (In fact in one fight against shadows, the 8th level power meant they could not harm us.)


Chess Pwn wrote:
Calth wrote:

There is also a new, and very good, inquisitor archetype called the Ravener Hunter in the Blood of the Beast Player Companion. It does the following

Trade domain and patron deity for 2 oracle revelations (one at first and one at 8th) from a number of decent mysteries (battle is included and probably the big winner) Trading your domain for heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency, weapon focus and greater weapon focus and improved critical is a very solid trade especially for races that don't get racial weapons. (Maneuver Mastery and War Sight are great options for those races that do get good racials, cause rolling 3 times for initiative is pretty cool)

Gains all cleric spells with good descriptor at cleric level (retaining lower level if its also on the inquisitor list) but loses access to chaotic/evil/lawful spells. Generally a good trade for standard campaigns (eaglesoul is awesome).

Loses bonus teamwork feat at 3 and delayed solo tactics til 6 and gets Demon Hunter feat and bonus against demon worshipers (fairly campaign dependent).

Stacks with sanctified slayer if you want to make a really martial inquisitor character.

Wow, that sounds like an awesome archetype.

If it stacks with the sanctified slayer... it stacks with the monster tactician!

Brb time to build an inquisitor


ooh, is it up on any of the reference sites yet?


Ok start off, are any of the comments about actual improvements or critiques.

#1 Advanced Firearms take a move action to reload. Rapid Reload changes that to a free action. Rapid Reload is an essential feat for most ranged weapons for that reason. A Heavy crossbow requires an additional feat to do that and it makes the Heavy Crossbow that much more impractical.

#2 I checked the ranger, slayer, and sanctified slayer and yes you cannot pick Point Blank Master as a bonus feat until level 16. So that kills the class for me.


ChaosTicket wrote:

Ok start off, are any of the comments about actual improvements or critiques.

#1 Advanced Firearms take a move action to reload. Rapid Reload changes that to a free action. Rapid Reload is an essential feat for most ranged weapons for that reason. A Heavy crossbow requires an additional feat to do that and it makes the Heavy Crossbow that much more impractical.

#2 I checked the ranger, slayer, and sanctified slayer and yes you cannot pick Point Blank Master as a bonus feat until level 16. So that kills the class for me.

So just for PBM you will only ever build ranged characters off of Fighter or Ranger bases?

did you have a GM who was going to sign off on an advanced firearm?


ChaosTicket wrote:

I like the idea of a higher level Inquisitor, compensating raw stats with multiple stacking buffing abilities to make itself better than a Fighter while still having utility with plenty of skills.

#1 Lack of weapon proficiencies is major problem. Heavy mace, Morningstar, or Longspear are limited. Martial proficiencies are highly desirable and Inquisitor doesnt have them. For martial classes Greatsword is basic power weapon with plenty of damage. Lucerne Hammer is very good Reach weapon with multiple damage types. Nodachi also has multiple damage types and high critical threat chance.

Multiclass.

I ran into the exact same issue with my current Inquisitor. I had imagined him kind of a cross between Blade and Supernatural's Winchesters... the kind of guy who had a weapon on hand for any situation... and simple weapons only didn't cut it. Deity weapons were mostly lame too. Pharasma with a dagger??! EVERYONE gets DAGGERS.... Couldn't be something cool like a Scythe???

My 2nd level I dipped into Fighter 'unarmed fighter' archtype... All Martial weapons AND all Monk weapons (so more weapons than any other fighter type... ironically) Improved Unarmed strike, AND a style feat. (I went with snake style: make a sense motive check and use that as your AC... which since inquistors get a naturally high Sense Motive is a REALLY good fit!) Not to mention a +1 Bab so you're not falling behind on BAB...

I haven't regretted that decision yet.

ChaosTicket wrote:


#2 Lack of feats for anything except a melee build. Archery build is iconic and offensively it works well in combination with all the buffs to make a Ranged DPS character. Actually getting all the ones required takes quite a long time and getting others like Improved Initiative, Iron Will, and others makes it quite feat starved.

You don't need either Improved INitative OR iron will. Inquisitors should be focused on their Wisdom score that naturally gives you a high will... and cunning Initative ability lets you add it to Iniative.. so both the things you want to build up are going to be built up just by being an inquisitor.

I mean... sure you can jack it to the moon if you want... but then yeah, you're going to be starved in different areas.

Archer feat trees are annoying... but if that's the road you're looking for, there's not much to be done about it. Most archer builds have the first half-dozen feats already assigned.

ChaosTicket wrote:


#3 Choice of race. Inquisitor is an MAD class. Strength/Dex are important for offense, Wisdom necessary for spells. Charisma is the only dump stat though some suggest dumping Intelligence. Personally I favor a Half-orc for Darkvision, Sacred Tattoos(in combination with Fate's Favored trait), Human Favored Class Bonuses(usually the best) and of course the custom stat choice.

I agree with some of the others that class will help get you some wepaons. Dwarves will get the hammers and axes... half-orcs get falcate and great-axe. Both very nice martial weapons.

ChaosTicket wrote:


#4 Spells. Being a reduced tier 6 divine spell user results in many limited spells. There are plenty of useful buffing spells, but minimal offensive spells. Tier 1 spell slots seem reserved for Divine Favor.

I don't cast many spells with mine... As a Dhampir I usually use the INflict wounds to heal myself. I do like the magic weapon and blistering invective though. Haven't looked at what they get at higher levels. I honestly don't see casting as the main focus of the inquisitor myself though :-/

ChaosTicket wrote:


#5 Alignment and Deities. Deity Alignment seems inverse to how effective the bonuses are. There are plenty of domain powers but most are negligible bonuses that dont stack and/or you cannot benefit from because of one-round durations.

------------------

I went with the persistence Inquisition. Free 'Step up' feat and the ability to get +10' movement is nice. Also went with focusing on ideals instead of dieties.. I looked long and hard even getting into the lesser angels and still couldn't find a deity that fit his mentality. It was very frustrating.


ChaosTicket wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

For the vast majority of such situations, most shooters have this free trick that costs no feats at all.. called the 5 foot step.

Counters my deal GiRL. Step Up, prepare actions, reach weapons, combat reflexes, etc.

Do you seriously get into situations where you never get countered?

Not enough to be obsessed about them. My ranged characters do generally carry a servicable melee weapon them if needs be. But it's hardly been an issue. Bows have great range and I make use of that. I also generally travel with at least one capable melee type who's more than enthuisastic about the idea of people coming up to make nasty with us.


ChaosTicket wrote:

Ok start off, are any of the comments about actual improvements or critiques.

#1 Advanced Firearms take a move action to reload. Rapid Reload changes that to a free action. Rapid Reload is an essential feat for most ranged weapons for that reason. A Heavy crossbow requires an additional feat to do that and it makes the Heavy Crossbow that much more impractical.

#2 I checked the ranger, slayer, and sanctified slayer and yes you cannot pick Point Blank Master as a bonus feat until level 16. So that kills the class for me.

Well, Bowstaff is a pretty good solution to PBM, though it doesn't work with guns.

For more advice on inquisitors I recommend reading Bodhi's Guide to the Optimal Inquisitor or Nobody Expects a Guide to the Inquisitor as either of them have more wisdom to impart than anything I could contribute. If they are too long, just skip to the sections which most pertain to you.

Alternatively, if Inquisitor isn't what you are looking for you could try reading Guide to Class Selection and then find the corresponding class guide in Broken Zenith's Guide to the Guides.

Why do I advise the guides so heavily you may ask? Because they help do a lot of the legwork for finding the inns and outs of classes with a lot of similar options, as well as find interesting gimmicks each class has to offer.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
ChaosTicket wrote:

I like Point Blank Master because its the feat that means ranged attacks a functional fighting style at any range, not just longer distances. Along with Snapshot it means ranged attacks are just as functional as melee. So its a feat to prepare for an eventuality not a one in a million situation.

For the vast majority of such situations, most shooters have this free trick that costs no feats at all.. called the 5 foot step.

Counters my deal GiRL. Step Up, prepare actions, reach weapons, combat reflexes, etc.

Do you seriously get into situations where you never get countered?

Not enough to be obsessed about them. My ranged characters do generally carry a servicable melee weapon them if needs be. But it's hardly been an issue. Bows have great range and I make use of that. I also generally travel with at least one capable melee type who's more than enthuisastic about the idea of people coming up to make nasty with us.

Although Chaos seems pretty keen on being:

ChaosTicket wrote:
Overall what I want in the Theory of the Inquisitor being a Divine Warrior Solo Skillmaster to actually work in practice. Its just a matter of having either better weapon options and/or the feats to fully take Fighting Styles.

The Pathfinder system is (hopefully?) balanced enough that you can't have combat ability that is "better than a Fighter" while retaining 2/3 casting and lots of skills (Besides APG Synthesist Summoners). But besides that - most of the time you will have to do with "good enough". Being ready for all eventualities is for Wizards and other prepared fullcaster classes, who actually have enough modifiable, diverse abilities that they can cover almost all foreseeable problems. As an Inquisitor, you have a limited number of spells known and a limited amount of feats, so you can't magically cover everything. I can't stress enough that no character will be able to do everything the best. If you choose to do many things well, there will almost certainly be someone who is more specialized than you at one of your things.

ChaosTicket wrote:

The things I would want in this class are

#1 all martial weapon proficiencies.
#2 spells that are useful besides buffs
#3 Domain powers that are actually useful
#4 Fighting Style without feat starving

Ok, so #1 is possible. The end goal appears to be a competent martial, which is totally doable.

#2 is basically the way divine spells work. Divine casters buff and do status removal, with a few weak blasts and single-target debuffs mixed in. Actually, the Inquisitor has some of the most offensive divine-divine (as opposed to nature-divine) spells apart from the Shaman. The Litany line of spells is pretty good in terms of the action economy of a martial-oriented character. I'm not really sure of many ways to get offensive spells onto your spell list besides the Hexenhammer (Witch spells), Green Faith Martial (Animal or plant domain spells), and the Samsaran alternate racial ability (Divine spells from one class).

As for #3, domain powers are very, very infrequently useful. There have been listed some good Inquisitions above, but domains are in many ways supplemental abilities, as opposed to primary class features. Maybe if you had a Conductive weapon or Quicken Spell-Like Ability, you could hit enemies with your domain abilities and weapon damage in the same round. Although Quicken SLA also lets you speed-buff yourself with things like Good, Law, or Madness domain.

#4 is basically not a thing unless you are in a feat-heavy or feat-supported class. Fighting styles are meant to be feat-intensive, so you can't just grab a handful or get a bunch of cool bonuses with minimal investment. Inquisitor already has a lot going for it, and even so, you get free Teamwork feats. With your regular feats, you can still pick up a fighting style, but you won't be competitive with the Fighter in terms of how quickly you get it. That is one of the consequences of 3/4 BAB with no bonus combat feats.

Can I ask - would you prefer to be (only) decent at a lot of things, or extremely good at a few? We could help work out a build or something if you are willing to number off priorities.


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Chaosticket, looking at your four points I would recommend taking a gander at the Magus, better weapon set, still lots of self buffs, the spell list might be more to your liking and being an int based caster you'll still have skills.


Torbyne wrote:
Chaosticket, looking at your four points I would recommend taking a gander at the Magus, better weapon set, still lots of self buffs, the spell list might be more to your liking and being an int based caster you'll still have skills.

Maybe even an Eldritch Knight... Lot of goodies there.


If you're that concerned about Provoking AoOs with your ranged attacks, there are plenty of ways around that.

The teamwork feat Escape Route will allow you to move when threatend as long as an ally is nearby. Use that movement to place your ally between you and the enemy so you get cover and thus, no AoOs. The foe also gets cover, but you should still hit reliably and can later negate the cover with improved Precise Shot.

A ranged Inquisitor probably has high dex and light armor. Max out stealth, scout ahead and you should be able to avoid melee combat with good positioning and party-coordination.

If all else fails cast Greater Invisibility which makes you immune to AoO against many foes. Against big brute kind of monster, which usually don't excel at will saves, Repulsion is another good protection spell.

If you consider non-gunpowder builds, some domains/inquisitions could also help you avoid AoOs, like Dimensional Hop (Travel domain), Adoration (Love domain), Aura of Chaos (Protean). Or just pick a domain that gives you something useful to do besides shooting (Touch of Chaos, Touch of Madness).


Im not going to get what I want because of the limited game system. The game system would require reforms to be less rigid. Desires become wishes when something prevents you from fulfilling them and Pathfinder hinders Pathfinder.

You would need additional feats and less pointless requirement feats to get all the feats necessary to master at least one complicated fighting style in addition to other defense and miscellaneous feats.

Spells. I dont know why the resurrection spells arent in the Inquisitors list.

SKills for the Inquisitor are great. The Charisma ones are lacking because Charisma is the only stat that doesnt effect anything but skills, not including charisma based casters.


Maybe you'd be happier with a Fighter/Cleric (Cardinal) gestalt? Strong Fortitude and Will saves, full BAB, 9-level casting, with both Miracle and True Resurrection. 6+INT skills/level, with the ability to get up to 10+INT. Has martial weapons, heavy armor, extra feats, and a domain. Although it's not available for organized play.


I'd recommend changing your perceptions on the Inquisitor Spell List. Remember that the Inquisitor is probably more concerned with the covert operatives of its religion, so hunting, tracking, solo operations (or team of inquisitors) and so on. Its spell list is geared towards this, spells that increase combat strength, utility, stealth, tracking - its got you covered.

Quote:
#4 Spells. Being a reduced tier 6 divine spell user results in many limited spells. There are plenty of useful buffing spells, but minimal offensive spells. Tier 1 spell slots seem reserved for Divine Favor.

You can always go Green Faith Marshal which should let you add the Druid Domain spells to your spell list. I don't really know though what you mean by "offensive spells". If its "blast" spells - then realistically your Inquisitor should be outputting enough martial / ranged damage to actually do more damage than it could with a simple Fireball.

Quote:
#3 Domain powers that are actually useful.

With various options and/or archetypes you have access to Cleric DOmains, Inquisitor Inquisitions (many of which are extremely powerful), and Druid Domains. If you cannot find anything useful there - then I'd assuming you would be complaining for the sake of complaining - in which case I have no idea why you would be posting in the "advice" forum to ignore any and all advice people are giving you.

I have played a ton of variations of the Inquisitor class. You can go for Melee/Ranged/Mounted combat, can Hex like a Witch, you can Summon via Monster Tactician, you can Sneak like a Slayer, pet class like a Hunter, have a baseline spell-list with some pretty awesome buffs, and still get boosts to your combat strength with Judgment, Greater Bane, Studied Target etc etc. Its basically Jack of Trades. Heck, I remember playing a Sniper Inquisitor with Fervor Inquisition - I triggered my Judgement and Bane abilities beforehand, popped a luck bonus divine buff spell (with Fates Favoured), and then activated my Swift Action Named Bullet and just drilled right through my target. If you cannot find anything to do with the Inquisitor class, either find a different class that does, or readjust your expectations.

If you don't like the Pathfinder system and feel that the Inquisitor class should be a full BAB, 9th level Caster, 6+INT Skill point, SAD character that has full armour proficiency, full martial weapon proficiency, several combat bonus feats added to the class as well as special, inquisitor only domains better than what's currently printed - then start homebrewing! Its not particularly difficult, or alternatively work something out with your GM. If you feel there's a niche that needs filling - you can always try and freelance something through paizo. There are a ton of options people have given you in this thread, and any or all of them would serve you better than sitting here complaining "woe is me".

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