So I have long wanted to play a primarily melee oriented character who uses a simple quarterstaff as his main weapon. The idea is the Qstaff is so versatile with it being simple and therefore super plentiful if one is lost and can be used one handed, two handed or even with TWF as needed.
I was thinking of starting with Slayer as it has a nice mix of BAB, skills, stealth, and other abilities.
I would prefer that the character lightly armored and relatively mobile for concept reasons.
The one funky build rule is my GM gives 3 feats to everyone at level 1 and you get new character level feats at every even level instead of every level divisible by three.
Twf would be a definite part of the build but hopefully not the sole focus. Would like to be able to trip and use Lunge as well.
Any idea's you guys come up with would be appreciated.
Pathfinder gives a new feat at every odd level, btw. The "divisible by three" came from 3.x.
Slayer isn't a bad choice. You could also check out Bloodrager or Fighter (Child of ...whatever their names were archetype Child of War on d20pfsrd). And really, Ranger isn't a bad option either.
|
You obviously want to take the Quarterstaff Master feat. Tripping Staff, Tripping Twirl, and Perfect Strike are the other 'quarterstaff' feats, but dunno if any of them would be appropriate for your build.
I like to combine that with Spear Dancing Spiral, but that would go against your 'simple piece of wood' concept. You might want one of the class features allowing an enhancement bonus / magic weapon special abilities to be added to any weapon for that.
There aren't really any quarterstaff focused archetypes except the Staff Magus, and that isn't full BAB. Unchained Monk might be a good option if you are interested in working in combat styles or Perfect Strike.
UMD would allow a magic staff to potentially be used as both weapon and spell casting implement.
From there we get in to generic combat issues which could apply to any weapon / style. If you want to be able to use the staff effectively as a one-handed, two-handed, AND double weapon you may want to consider Brawler, Varisian Free-Style Fighter, or something else that can adjust feats to the situation.
Unchained Monk can use it two handed with flurry. Best of both worlds there?
Besides that consider the Lore Warden. Light Armor. All the fears you can shake a stick at. Decent skill points once you get advanced weapons training. Can use AWT to make the weapon scale its damage dice.
I would recommend a unmonk as well. Seems like it would be a good fit.
That said, fighter will always hit things well, and with all the extra feats you get to pick what you want to do. Its pretty cool,
if you want to do a lot of damage, and not wear heavy armor, go two-handed fighter as well.
if you want to go TWF I would suggest two weapon warrior or mobile warrior as well.
I think slayer would be one of the better options, especially if you want to be versatile with it. With the ranger fighting style slayer talents you can actually do a TWF STR build which compliments ability scores for 2H striking as well. Add some power attack on top of your (sometimes) SA and studied target and your staff is going to hurt.
|
|
Just for something completely different, I'm posting as my quarterstaff focused character for Pathfinder Society. You can click my name to see the character stats at level 2.
Not full BAB, but he's a Nature Fang Druid. That's the "I wanna be a Slayer" archetype for Druids. The whole point of the build is to do two weapon fighting with both ends of a shillelagh. Even without studied target, I'm already doing two attacks at +4 to hit for 2d6+5 and 2d6+3 damage at level 2. That +4 might miss a lot, but with two attacks, I'm still very likely to hit at least once per round.
The studied target will help me keep up on BAB and add a little more damage. The shillelagh + sneak attack from the archetype will provide plenty of damage per hit, with Power Attack coming by level 5. I even took Magical Lineage: Shillelagh so I can quicken it easier at high levels, since that spell is the entire concept for the build.
He's also highly acrobatic for a Druid. He's in light armor, and has the Rice Runner trait to get acrobatics as a class skill with a +1 trait bonus. The Monkey domain gives a monkey familiar that adds +3 to acrobatics, as well as the first level domain power to add 1/2 your druid level to acrobatics checks as a free action. So he's at +11 acrobatics at level 2, with another +1 from the domain power 5 times per day. That should be great for getting into flanking position.
I know I could have just gotten an animal companion to flank with me instead of doing all that work, and done more damage from the critter's attacks, too, but the monkey was part of my initial concept. He's based on a specific fictional character.
Ranger? Or an archetype?
Is there a way to learn shillelagh without being a caster? Is it worth taking 4 or 6 levels of ranger for those spell slots?
I think slayer would be fun. Use your Ranger Combat Style talents to get Two-Weapon Fighting stuff, and use your regular feats for Power Attack and other Two-Handed Fighting Stuff--maybe even Weapon Focus. And you can use Sneak Attack.
I once played a 3.5 monk (Vow of Poverty ridiculousness) that used 2-handed Power Attack with his quarterstaff to fight earth elementals with DR 5/- or 10/-. It can be a really important way to overcome DR, especially if your "simple piece of wood" is an actual simple piece of wood and not magical at all.
Exemplar Brawler! Lightly armored, decent amount of bonus feats, Martial Flexibility awesomeness, you can still use shields, you get the ability to share teamwork feats, you can Flurry with the staff, AND you get CL-2 Inspire Courage (that you can use Lingering Performance with)!
I have actually been working on that very build, let me know if you're interested and I'll send you a link with the sheet.
Brawler or Monk seem like the way to go, the more I think about it. Perfect Strike on them is amazing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's a little thing, but the Combat Trait Monk Weapon Skill gives you a +1 trait bonus to damage with one Monk weapon other than Unarmed Strike. The quarterstaff, of course, is a Monk weapon.
|
If you went dex/int as a build, I would suggest grabbing Kirin Style (possibly). I would look and see if your GM thinks the intent was for you to be able to benefit from the feat before the fight was over or not. As it is written it's 3 rounds to be able to use it....which I *highly* doubt was intended. But you never know. Anyway, it's 2x int mod to damage.
|
|
If you went dex/int as a build, I would suggest grabbing Kirin Style (possibly). I would look and see if your GM thinks the intent was for you to be able to benefit from the feat before the fight was over or not. As it is written it's 3 rounds to be able to use it....which I *highly* doubt was intended. But you never know. Anyway, it's 2x int mod to damage.
3 rounds?
Round 1: Swift action Knowledge check (can always take 10) for bonus on saves and AC vs AoOs from creature. Free action move to square within creature's threatened area w/o provoking AoO.
Round 2+: Swift action for damage bonus on one attack per round.
Ergo, you can 'use' two of the feats from the style immediately and the third feat (Kirin Strike) starting in the 2nd round.
|
|
It takes a swift action to enter the style to begin with. It's three rounds to get the benefit against a single enemy. Then if it drops, you need a further two rounds to target another enemy. Probably far more effective ways to utilize your feats. The tree needs to be rewritten as though the author understood how making knowledge checks work and the value of investing in style feats.
With some reasonable house ruling, it can be pretty good, though.
@Imbacitus Nature Fang invalidates Wood oracle? How so?
If you are allowed to use Path of War...
We do not own or use that book, though it looks a lot like the old Book of 9 Swords. I will look into it but at this point I am gonna go with Slayer. While it seems the UMonk would be the optimal route. I have played one and I have not played a slayer and would like to.
Lots of great idea's in this thread for me to look over.
Any suggestions on possible slayer archetypes?
I am looking for a fun, effective built, not necessarily the absolute best possible build.
If you want to play a slightly mystical slayer, Spiritslayer would work (or Stygian Slayer, but I'm less fond of that one). If you want to remake Mat Cauthon from the Wheel of Time you could do worse than a Vanguard.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been thinking about this too... I like one particular flavor though... An eldritch guardian fighter gets a familiar and has UMD as a class skill- so you can fake being a wizard (until someone closes on you and you start dealing crazy damage with your staff). All the normal fighter goodies will be helpful (weapon specialization, weapon training, etc), plus at 5th you can take the advanced weapon training feat to get focused weapon (which makes your staff base damage scale as a warpriest's sacred weapon). The one big downside to eldritch guardian is that you miss out on some early bonus feats but your GM has conveniently fixed that.
I've been thinking about this too... I like one particular flavor though... An eldritch guardian fighter gets a familiar and has UMD as a class skill- so you can fake being a wizard (until someone closes on you and you start dealing crazy damage with your staff).
That's what I like to do with my Hexcrafter/Staff Magus. Glamoured armor completes the picture. Intelligent enemies usually presume he is a Wizard or a Witch. Surprise!
I am looking for a fun, effective built, not necessarily the absolute best possible build.
I had a gnome hook-hammer specialist a while ago who fit your fun and effective criteria. The basic skeleton would work fine as a staff fighter.
Lvl 1: Vivisectionist/Internal alchemist.
Reasoning: The sneak attack will help support the meh staff damage. You also get a small spell list and some nifty tricks for when hitting-them-with-a-stick does not seem the best choice.
Lvl 2 and onward: Ranger.
Reasoning: Two weapon fighting feats, full bab, built in flank partner even if none of the other players are willing/able to dance.
Worked surprisingly well. Not overly specialized so not the best power-build but it was fun to play and added a good bit to the party.
So I have long wanted to play a primarily melee oriented character who uses a simple quarterstaff as his main weapon. The idea is the Qstaff is so versatile with it being simple and therefore super plentiful if one is lost and can be used one handed, two handed or even with TWF as needed.
I was thinking of starting with Slayer as it has a nice mix of BAB, skills, stealth, and other abilities.
I would prefer that the character lightly armored and relatively mobile for concept reasons.
The one funky build rule is my GM gives 3 feats to everyone at level 1 and you get new character level feats at every even level instead of every level divisible by three.
Twf would be a definite part of the build but hopefully not the sole focus. Would like to be able to trip and use Lunge as well.
Any idea's you guys come up with would be appreciated.
Quarterstaff Master makes the weapon extremely versatile, and you can pick up Weapon Focus with a slayer talent, and you can get the TWF feats for free with the slayer as well, forgoing the need for DEX.
The slayer is a very rewarding class, and the quarterstaff can fulfill most combat styles effectively. If you want to go trip however, you will need either dirty fighting or to invest in INT (not bad consider some of your DCs are INT based) and take Combat Expertise proper, which is generally considered a weak feat.
What resources are available? Qstaff is a STR based weapon, and going light armor for mobility leans towards a DEX build, so you will have some MAD there. May I recommend VMC fighter to nab Armor Training to move at full speed in medium, with minimum investment in DEX (and access to some really cool toys like Improved Bravery to help your Will saves).
What resources are available? Qstaff is a STR based weapon, and going light armor for mobility leans towards a DEX build, so you will have some MAD there.
Stats are a non issue frankly. My GM loves her high powered games so gives absolutely ridiculous stat points at character creation (92 points to spend on a 1 for 1 basis, no stat can start lower than 10 after racial mods, you must buy up from 0 in each stat). So I can have insane stats across the board.
May I recommend VMC fighter to nab Armor Training to move at full speed in medium, with minimum investment in DEX (and access to some really cool toys like Improved Bravery to help your Will saves).
I thought you could not multiclass fighter with Slayer since slayer has fighter in it's makeup? Or does that only count for standard multiclassing and not variant?
That Dirty Fighting feat is amazing. I am tempted to go with a Vanguard Slayer and get an Animal companion with feats. Be the simple farm boy turned adventurer with his staff and dog.
|
|
I thought you could not multiclass fighter with Slayer since slayer has fighter in it's makeup?
There was a point during the hybrid class design/play-testing that they were considered like archetypes of both parent classes. However, as finally released they are not. Hybrid classes are their own unique base classes and thus can combine with any other core or base class... even one of their two 'parent' classes.
I thought you could not multiclass fighter with Slayer since slayer has fighter in it's makeup?There was a point during the hybrid class design/play-testing that they were considered like archetypes of both parent classes. However, as finally released they are not. Hybrid classes are their own unique base classes and thus can combine with any other core or base class... even one of their two 'parent' classes.
Ah cool! Been a while since I read the hardcover so forgot that prohibition was from playtest. Thank you.
In that case I may just do that. Definitely have the extra feats to makeup for the VMC.
Lore Warden Fighter. They only get light armor proficiency in exchange for +2 skill points and all Int skills as class skills (Appraise, Linguistics, all Knowledges).
They also get Combat Expertise for free level 2, in addition to regular bonus feat that Fighters get a level 2.
They also get bonuses to all Combat Manevuers at levels 3, 7, 11, and 15.
As a Human, you can take Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, and Power Attack at level 1. After that, you could go tankish with Combat Expertise and the Stalwart feat chain, grab Cleave and Weapon Focus/Specialization and focus on damage because you also still get Fighter Weapon Training, use your knowledges and work up the Kirin Style/Kirin Strike/Kirin Path feat chain, or do all of that by level 10, since your DM is giving you 10 extra feats in addition to the Figher's bonus feats.
I misread your original post. If your DM is giving everyone 3 feats at level 1, then would they allow a Human Fighter to get their level-1 bonus feat for being Human and their level-1 bonus feat for being a Fighter as well? Totally 5 starting feats for a level 1 Human Fighter in their game?
If that's the case, grab Weapon Focus and Dodge, replace Two-Weapon Defense and Power Attack with Dirty Fighting and Mobility, then take Improved Trip at level 2 and run around getting flanks setting up trips.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It takes a swift action to enter the style to begin with.Yeah but you use that in the first combat after you take the feat and then never worry about it ever again.
No, you can't just stay in a style stance indefinitely. The only way you can start a combat already in a stance is with the combat style master feat.
|
|
As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style.
You shift between combat styles, combining them to increased effect.Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, two or more style feats, base attack bonus +6 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: You can switch your style as a free action. At the start of combat,pick one of your styles. You start the combat in that style, even in the surprise round.
Normal: It takes a swift action to begin or switch your styles.
Both the style feat general rules and the combat style master feat confirm that you cannot begin combat in a style stance. Your stance persists for the duration of combat, but if combat ends, you cannot start a combat in a style stance, unless you have combat style master.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
It fails on a rules standpoint because you can't use a style feat before combat begins. At the moment combat ends, you are before combat begins. Thus you cannot use a style feat out of combat.
It also isn't realistic to stay in a style stance all day. As anyone how has studied a martial art can tell you, stances are hard to maintain. Try standing in shiko dachi all day.
This is the same as the "can I walk around defensively all day" argument of a couple months ago. No, although the rules don't specify it.
If your DM is giving everyone 3 feats at level 1, then would she allow a Human Fighter to get their level-1 bonus feat for being Human and their level-1 bonus feat for being a Fighter as well? Totally 5 starting feats for a level 1 Human Fighter in their game?
Yes she does. She also gives out the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization chains for free to fighters in one weapon of their choice. Weapon Focus and Specialization for Quarterstaff for this character would be free as well so effectively 6 total feats at level 1 for a human fighter.
Do these bonus feats have to follow prerequisites? Because the number of good feats you can take with a BAB of +1 is pretty low.
Yes all feats have to be qualified for as normal.
All that you've written basically screams for unMonk with Ascetic Style. Full BAB, a better version of TWF for free, scaling damage to replace the mediocre 1d6, unarmored by default, build-in mobility (in Pathfinder, a melee character is only really mobile if he can move and still make more than a standard attack), and if you want, you can become invisible and walk through walls at 4th level (and high speed and no armor check penalty aren't bad for stealthiness, either). UnMonk even gets in-class trip.
The GM given bonus feats are nice to get it all working early on without needing to be human.