Natural 1s |
Will investigator get free use of inspiration on Diplomacy if he has expanded inspiration talent and is using his oratory (performance) skill bonus due to versatile performance (he has bard as secondary class)?
Benefit: An investigator can use his inspiration ability when attempting Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession, and Sense Motive checks without expending uses of inspiration, provided he's trained in the skill.
A character who chooses bard as his secondary class gains the following secondary class features...Versatile Performance: At 11th level, he gains versatile performance in one Perform skill of his choice. He can retrain all his ranks in the two associated skills for free.
At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill...The types of Perform and their associated skills are:...Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive),...
Leandro Garvel |
You are making a Diplomacy check, but substituting your Diplomacy bonus for your relevant Perform bonus.
Since Expanded Inspiration adds to your bonus when making a Diplomacy check (rather than specifically adding to your Diplomacy bonus) I see no reason for it to not add to to your bonus for a Diplomacy check.
Azten |
That is simply not true. "He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. " it's not saying you are making a Perform check, merely using your bonus to a Perform check.
If we believe that you aren't making the check with a different bonus we need to realize some of the Versatile Performances don't make any sense. How does singing or giving a speech when someone is talking to you help you figure out they are lying? How does telling a joke or playing a xylophone scare someone? How does playing a violin make you lie?
Drahliana Moonrunner |
That is simply not true. "He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. " it's not saying you are making a Perform check, merely using your bonus to a Perform check.
If we believe that you aren't making the check with a different bonus we need to realize some of the Versatile Performances don't make any sense. How does singing or giving a speech when someone is talking to you help you figure out they are lying? How does telling a joke or playing a xylophone scare someone? How does playing a violin make you lie?
I don't bother analyzing HOW things are done. The rules are rules. You are using your versatile performance in place of whatever ranks you may have in using the associated skills, not in addition to. That's why those are perform checks.
Versatile Performance gives you a lot of mileage but it does come at a cost. It does not qualify as actually having ranks in the associated skill.
Natural 1s |
I don't bother analyzing HOW things are done. The rules are rules. You are using your versatile performance in place of whatever ranks you may have in using the associated skills, not in addition to. That's why those are perform checks.
Versatile Performance gives you a lot of mileage but it does come at a cost. It does not qualify as actually having ranks in the associated skill.
Do you mean that dancing (substitute for acrobatics or fly) bard in heavy armor doesn't care about armor check penalty when she is jumping?
Saethori |
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I'm surprised this is as divisive as it is, when the rules text was quoted.
At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill...The types of Perform and their associated skills are:...Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive),...
You use your Perform skill bonus, including things like Class Skill bonuses, Skill Focus, and all those skill ranks, when performing Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks. You don't use Perform instead; nothing about what Versatile Performance says lets you make Perform (Oratory) checks in place of Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks.
An investigator has the ability to augment skill checks and ability checks through his brilliant inspiration. The investigator has an inspiration pool equal to 1/2 his investigator level + his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). An investigator's inspiration pool refreshes each day, typically after he gets a restful night's sleep. As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check, including any on which he takes 10 or 20. This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll. The investigator can use inspiration on any Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft skill checks without expending a use of inspiration, provided he's trained in the skill.
Inspiration cares only about what check you're using, not the skill bonus. It adds the inspiration die to the end result, after Versatile Performance has already allowed you to use your bonus on Perform (oratory) for your Diplomacy skill check. And since you're making a Diplomacy skill check, Expanded Inspiration applies and lets it cost zero inspiration.
The two work together.