Best teamwork group.


Advice

Grand Lodge

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I have been wondering how to put together the best team - everybody adding bonuses to the group.
PFS legal builds only.
So far I have come up with:

Spellbreaker skjald
Freebooter ranger
Evangelist cleric
Holy tactician paladin


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Dream Teamwork. Any of the 4 listed below;

Holy Tactician Paladin
Vanguard Slayer
Strategist Cavalier
Exemplar Brawler

Inquisitor, using Cooperation Domain
Hunter
Bard, using Battle Song of the People's Revolt
Divine Commander Warpriest
Battle Scion Skald

All gain bonus teamwork feats, and nearly all are able to share with other PCs even though they don't meet the prerequisites (including ACs, mounts, or familiars). Fun Fact: quite a few of these are eligible for animal companions right out of the gate.

Brownie points if you get a familiar with the Valet archetype.

Liberty's Edge

You can do fun things by multi-classing teamwork feat classes. For example;

Holy Tactician 3 / Hunter or Inquisitor 3
This lets you change your most recent Hunter/Inquisitor bonus teamwork feat to any you qualify for as a Standard action... and then share that feat with the group via Battlefield presence. Complete situational flexibility. Take Hunter AND Sacred Huntsmaster Inquisitor and you've got two easily swappable teamwork feats shared with your AC which has combined levels from the two classes.

Brawler 1 / Warsighted Oracle 1 / Varisian Free-Style Fighter 1 / Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer 1
This combination lets you take up to four different combat feats you qualify for... and many teamwork feats are also combat feats. There is a one minute duration and limited number of times per day, but it provides a huge array of possible feats. Combine with any of the teamwork sharing class features (e.g. Hunter 3 with the above could be sharing five teamwork feats with its AC at 7th level).

Also Bards, Skalds, and various archetypes thereof are obviously great at providing group bonuses. The Sensei Monk archetype is another good option, particularly if stacked with other monk archetypes (e.g. Drunken Master, Qinggong, AND Monk of the Four Winds).

Grand Lodge

Lots of good ideas with teamwork feats.
What other group buff's is there - beside spells ?


Order of the Dragon - Aid Another
Slayer Talents for Aid Another
Bard with Flagbearer, or Voice of the Wild Archetype can grant Animal Aspect
Cavalier has Banner
Warpriest can use Variant Channeling
Skald is a Skald

Animal Companion archetypes open up Bodyguard, for defensive use of Aid Another. Which goes great with Harrying Partners, if shared with a teamwork ability where allies don't need to qualify.

Everyone wield a melee weapon with a throwing range increment, so most allies can benefit from flanking/melee teamwork feats, but also be ready to drop a bomb on an opponent with Target of Opportunity teamwork feat.

Liberty's Edge

Another wacky group buff route that is kind of counter-intuitive;

Fighter + Courage in a Bottle + Improved Bravery + Social Bravery + Inspired Bravery + Sash of the War Champion

Grants group high bonuses to checks vs fear, mind-affecting effects, demoralize, feint, and influence.


This sounds like I'm trolling you orc rapping on your subject but.... 4 clerics, not joking. The number of ways that an all cleric group can all help each other is substantial. Can help lay that out if needed.

In broad strokes the divine classes are a couple of notches better than arcane at boosting. Paladin removes conditions as a class feature, dual cursed oracles with misfortune are arguably the best supporters on the game with their rerolls, etc.

Aside from 4 cleric my party depends on do you in life rerolls, do u want teamwork feats included, etc. Hospitalier paladin, DPS inquisitor with preacher archetype and animal domain, dual cursed oracle, and evangelist cleric based on luck variant channel and heroism or Tactics domain is the best party I've ever seen for working as a team adding none. You can't kill em and they wear you down with attrition and superior buffs.

Grand Lodge

Lots of good suggestions.
I do think a 4 person cleric group would have to much overlap in strengths and weaknes.

Silver Crusade

There are a few tricks for a 4 person group:

1. As many bonuses as possible should stack. It's no use having a bard cast the heroism spell and a glory (heroism) domain cleric passing out aura of heroism.
2. Everyone should be able to personally use the bonuses. When you only have four characters, a guy whose primary job is handing out bonuses will have some trouble working out.
3. You still need to cover all of the roles

So here's my submission:

1. Oradin
2. Cleric with glory (heroism) and good (archon) domains
3. Arcanist with sideline in summoning or summoner
4. Cavalier/Bard/Battle Herald

-The Oradin provides aura of courage, lifelink, battlecry, and eventually aura of smiting
-The cleric provides all the usual cleric things (particularly prayer which should be very nice if all characters take fate's favored as a trait, aura of heroism, and aura of menace (a no-save debuff is as good as a buff). At higher levels, he is a good source for hero's feast, magic vestments, etc. The cleric can also summon more allies to take advantage of the multitude of buffs running around.
-The battle herald provides inspiring commands, inspire courage, banner, and can pass out teamwork feats if needed (if he is enough of a switch hitter to have Volley Fire, passing it will enable the entire party to be semi-competent ranged attackers when needed which is nice if the party is naturally weak at range).
-The arcanist or summoner provide haste, enlarge person (as appropriate), and the various other arcane support spells as well as additional allies to take advantage of all the buffs.

The traditional fighter, cleric, and wizard roles are all covered (or double covered), and the rogue role gets split up between the battle herald and the arcanist who should have the skill points between them to do what is needed.


*Khan* wrote:

Lots of good suggestions.

I do think a 4 person cleric group would have to much overlap in strengths and weaknes.

An individual cleric may have problems but a group of four has no weakness aside from maybe skills.

Grand Lodge

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
*Khan* wrote:

Lots of good suggestions.

I do think a 4 person cleric group would have to much overlap in strengths and weaknes.
An individual cleric may have problems but a group of four has no weakness aside from maybe skills.

They lack feats, arcane spells, full bab as well. Besides they will have almost the same class skills.

Elder Basilisk wrote:

There are a few tricks for a 4 person group:

1. As many bonuses as possible should stack. It's no use having a bard cast the heroism spell and a glory (heroism) domain cleric passing out aura of heroism.
2. Everyone should be able to personally use the bonuses. When you only have four characters, a guy whose primary job is handing out bonuses will have some trouble working out.
3. You still need to cover all of the roles

So here's my submission:

1. Oradin
2. Cleric with glory (heroism) and good (archon) domains
3. Arcanist with sideline in summoning or summoner
4. Cavalier/Bard/Battle Herald

-The Oradin provides aura of courage, lifelink, battlecry, and eventually aura of smiting
-The cleric provides all the usual cleric things (particularly prayer which should be very nice if all characters take fate's favored as a trait, aura of heroism, and aura of menace (a no-save debuff is as good as a buff). At higher levels, he is a good source for hero's feast, magic vestments, etc. The cleric can also summon more allies to take advantage of the multitude of buffs running around.
-The battle herald provides inspiring commands, inspire courage, banner, and can pass out teamwork feats if needed (if he is enough of a switch hitter to have Volley Fire, passing it will enable the entire party to be semi-competent ranged attackers when needed which is nice if the party is naturally weak at range).
-The arcanist or summoner provide haste, enlarge person (as appropriate), and the various other arcane support spells as well as additional allies to take advantage of all the buffs.

The traditional fighter, cleric, and wizard roles are all covered (or double covered), and the rogue role gets split up between the battle herald and the arcanist who should have the skill points between them to do what is needed.

Good input.

I agree that a full arcane caster would be nice. And I can not come up with a better option than a summon oriented build, but that mostly benefits from all the buff's than adding to them.

Grand Lodge

So I have updated my best team list:

Spell Warrior skjald
Freebooter ranger
Evangelist cleric (Heroism domain)
Holy tactician/Holy guide Paladin / Life oracle (Oradin)

+ Occultist Arcanist as a contender


There are a number of ways that clerics can have access to arcane spells and cast them regularly, not just domain spell. They don't have full BAB but can hit harder and more accurately than 85% of full BAB builds because of things like demon domain, bardic performances, channeling, or a number of buff spells, or how about having a bane weapon like an inquisitor. There is very little that a cleric cannot do but there is a decent amount that cleric can do that others cannot. Class skills is the only weakness but frankly even this barely matters as skill usage is very variable between GMs tables, the trope of not needing trap finding or disable device because of summons is very much a real thing, etc.

Silver Crusade

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
There are a number of ways that clerics can have access to arcane spells and cast them regularly, not just domain spell. They don't have full BAB but can hit harder and more accurately than 85% of full BAB builds because of things like demon domain, bardic performances, channeling, or a number of buff spells, or how about having a bane weapon like an inquisitor. There is very little that a cleric cannot do but there is a decent amount that cleric can do that others cannot. Class skills is the only weakness but frankly even this barely matters as skill usage is very variable between GMs tables, the trope of not needing trap finding or disable device because of summons is very much a real thing, etc.

All clerics is a viable party, but I don't think it is an ideal teamwork/buff monkey party.

Clerics can self-buff to hit harder than many some full BAB builds (though I doubt they can beat "85%"--my experience building NPCs is that it's next to impossible to build a buff and bash cleric who is even in the same league as a buff and bash Inquisitor or Warpriest, much less a well built fighter, barbarian, or paladin)... but if you have someone else buffing, it's really hard to make a 3/4 BAB build hit as hard as the full BAB does with those buffs. The extra Power Attack damage, extra feats, and extra attacks really add up. In a teamwork/buff monkey party, everyone is doing buffing, so A. everyone doesn't need to be able to do a full suite of self-buffs because they don't stack and someone else has part of it covered, and B. the more base power the characters have, the better those buffs work out.

And you also run into problems if you want to combine things like demon domain and good (archon), and glory (heroism) domain. More so than many parties, multiple clerics with deities cherry-picked for different domains, alt-channel abilities, archetypes, favored weapons, etc, can easily wind up incompatible.

Grand Lodge

Just to break down how the various characters contributes at level 8:
Spell Warrior skjald
• Weaponsong (Move action: +2 enchantment bonus to all allies weapons within 60ft.)
• Song of Marching (No fatigue or nonlethal dm. from marching)
• Song of Strength (+4 to strength check to all allies within 60ft)
Spells
• Heightened reflexes (+10 to one reflexssave to all allies within 30ft)
• Haste
• Feather step, mass
• Good hope (+ 2 moral bonus to hit, dam., saves and skill within 100ft.)

Freebooter ranger
• Freebooters bane (Move action: all allies within 30ft gets +2 to hit, dam. against target opponent)
• Freebooters bond (Move action: all allies within 30ft gets +4 to hit while flanking)
Spells
• Enemy Insight (Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies)
• Pack empathy (Communicate basic emotional concepts between allies over great distances)

Evangelist cleric (Heroism domain)
• Countersong
• Fascinate
• Inspire courage (Move action: + 2 competence bonus to hit, dam., +2 moral bonus to fear and charm saves.)
• Variant Channel Energy 3d6 (Battle/Wrath) (+2 sacred bonus to hit, dam.)
• Aura of heroism (Swift action: all allies within 30ft. gets +2 to hit, saves and skill checks)
Spells
• Protection form evil, communal
• Delay poison, communal
• Prayer (All allies within 40ft gets +1 luck bonus to hit, dam., saves and skill checks +2 fates favored trait)
• Resist energy, communal
• Blessing of fervor (Allies within 45ft. gain different bonuses. Ex. +2 to hit, AC and reflex saves)

Holy tactician/Holy guide Paladin 4/ Life Oracle 4(Oradin)
• Weals champion: (Swiftaction: Allies gains competence bonus to hit/dam against smited opponent)
• Battlefield presence (Standard action: Grant a teamwork feat to all allies within 30ft. ex. Outflank
• Channel Energy 1d6
• Mercy: removes sicken
• Revelation: Channel Energy 2d6
• Revelation: Life link (standard action: lifebond PC (up to 4 PC’s) heal 5 pint dam. you take 5 points of dam. End bond as immediate action)

1st round:
Spell Warrior skjald: Weaponsong + Haste
Freebooter ranger: Freebooters bane + Freebooters bond (or Enemy Insight spell)
Evangelist cleric: Inspire courage, Aura of heroism, Prayer
Oradin: Battlefield presence (could be up beforehand) or Life link (could be up beforehand)

Example of total benefits after 1st round.
One extra attack (haste)
To hit (+2 enchantment, +2 freebooter, +2 competence, +2 Moral, +1 luck) = +9
• Flanking +6 (outflank +4, freebooter +2) = +15 with flanking
To damage (+2 enchantment, +2 freebooter, +2 competence, +1 luck) = +7
To AC (+1 dodge - haste) = +1
To Saves (+2 Moral +1 luck) = +3
• Fear +2 Moral
• Charm +2 Moral
• Reflex +1 (haste)
To skills (+2 Moral, +1 luck) = +3
These benefits goes higher on round 2 when more spells kicks in


Don't forget about the two rage powers the skald is granting.

Edit: I just noticed the new daemon totem rage power. That's so dangerous when applied to the whole party.

Grand Lodge

Melkiador wrote:

Don't forget about the two rage powers the skald is granting.

Edit: I just noticed the new daemon totem rage power. That's so dangerous when applied to the whole party.

How could I forget that...

Well I think Beast Totem line is the way to go if the example was level 10 with pounce to share...
At level 8 the best option would properly be:
Celestial totem lesser, which will keep them all alive longer.

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