hold person question


Rules Questions


hold person:

The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown.

the description of hold person says its victim "cannot take any actions".

then it says "....the subject may attempt a new saving throw....This is a full-round action...."

but the subject cannot take any actions to attempt a new saving throw, it looks weird.

or the victim is just paralyzed?

Paralyzed:

Paralyzed: A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature—ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares to move through.


The specific statement that it can take a full-round action to make a new save overrides the previous, more general statement that it cannot take any actions.

Though really they should have put the 3rd sentence 2nd and then said "cannot take any other actions, even speech." Poor writing strikes again :-(


You're over thinking it.

You can definitely make the saving throw, as it's specifically mentioned in the spell as something you can do despite other actions not being allowed.

It's also really only the paralyzed condition, and you can still take purely mental conditions (although there aren't many).


Claxon wrote:
It's also really only the paralyzed condition, and you can still take purely mental conditions (although there aren't many).

psychic spells are all purely mental, wryyyyy!

i used to play hold person as it only gives a paralyze condition. but one of my friend tells me that according to description, hold person is a specific condition in addition to paralyze.
but i can't find rules or faqs that support me, so i cant move under both freedom of movement and hold person.

is there any rules can imply hold person only makes victim paralyze?


is taking a saving throw taking an actual action?


Klorox wrote:
is taking a saving throw taking an actual action?

Normally it is not as saves are normally purely reactive. In this case it is a full-round action because the spell says so.


dynilath wrote:
Claxon wrote:
It's also really only the paralyzed condition, and you can still take purely mental conditions (although there aren't many).

psychic spells are all purely mental, wryyyyy!

i used to play hold person as it only gives a paralyze condition. but one of my friend tells me that according to description, hold person is a specific condition in addition to paralyze.
but i can't find rules or faqs that support me, so i cant move under both freedom of movement and hold person.

is there any rules can imply hold person only makes victim paralyze?

Freedom of movement temporarily frees you from "magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web." That's not an exhaustive list, and hold person clearly falls under the description.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Freedom of movement temporarily frees you from "magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web." That's not an exhaustive list, and hold person clearly falls under the description.

the explain is that paralyze is not the only effect of hold person, it also prevent you from any actions.

does that mean any effect make creature paralyzed such as Holy Word would be suppressed entirely by Freedom of Movement?


Not every effect is, but any "you can't move and/or attack" part of the effect would be, because that's what FoM says. (I didn't include the bit about attacking in my quote earlier.)

For instance, you can move and attack freely in solid fog, but you still can't see through it.

I suppose one could argue that under hold person and freedom of movement you can do nothing except move and attack---no talking, no drinking potions, etc. That would be a unique situation in PF AFAIK, so I'm dubious, but I can't actually disprove it.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Klorox wrote:
is taking a saving throw taking an actual action?
Normally it is not as saves are normally purely reactive. In this case it is a full-round action because the spell says so.

The point of making it a full round action is it prevents you from making your subsequent save and acting on the same round.


Yeah, the spell makes the save an action so that if you do try it and save then you can't take any (well most, not none) actions.

To me it's unclear whether or not its supposed to be a greater version of paralyze and prevent mental action as well. My only thought is that if it supposed to be a greater version of paralysis that also prevents mental action, they don't make it clear enough.

First they mention paralysis, but then say can't take any action. But it's unclear if that's more just a reminder about what paralyzed normally does, and since there aren't many action types that are purely mental it doesn't come up much.


SLA are purely mental, so this is something that could easily happen since core. GMs in my area rule it as greater paralysis. You can take no action except the full round save.

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