Retraining Sorcerer into Crossblooded


Pathfinder Society

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

I have a 2nd level sorcerer with the elemental bloodline and I would like to retrain into the crossblooded archetype to add the arcane bloodline (because familiars are cool) but I'm not sure how much prestige it will cost. I'm not planning on changing any choices I've made so far (i.e. keeping the elemental ray for now, picking up familiar later) but I'm not sure what all counts as a class feature for this retrain. We're adding a bloodline, and that bloodline adds a new bloodline arcana and class skill, and then there is a list of drawbacks which I'm not sure if they count as separate features or not (which would suck if I had to pay additional prestige for some penalties).

I'm hoping this retrain will only cost me 5 prestige for the bloodline, but I'm suspecting it would be 10 for the change in arcana and class skill.

Is there anyone who has done this or a similar retrain before or maybe just someone who can double check my math?

Silver Crusade 2/5

Archetype Retraining from PRD:

Archetype
You can use the retraining rules to acquire an archetype for your class or abandon an archetype you have.

To gain an archetype that replaces standard class abilities you already have, you must spend 5 days for every alternate class feature you would add, subtract, or replace by taking that archetype. At the end of the training period, you lose the standard class features and replace them with the archetype's alternate class features (if any).

To abandon an archetype, you must spend 5 days for every alternate class feature you already have from that archetype. At the end of the retraining, you lose the archetype's class features and gain the standard class features for the class.

Swapping one archetype for another requires two retraining sessions: one to abandon the archetype, and then one to gain the new one.

Note that you don't have to use the retraining rules to take an archetype if your class level is low enough that the archetype doesn't modify any of your current class abilities. For example, if you're a 1st-level fighter who wants the archer archetype, that archetype doesn't replace any class abilities until fighter level 2, so you don't need to use the retraining rules at all—once you reach 2nd level, you can just decide to take the archer archetype.

Example: Logan's 4th-level fighter has the archer archetype. Because he is 4th level, he has two alternative class features from his archetype (hawkeye at 2nd level and trick shot at 3rd level), so he must spend 10 days and 400 gp retraining to abandon this archetype. If he were 5th level, he would also have the expert archer alternative class feature, which would increase his retraining to 15 days and 750 gp.

Sorcerers are unusual, in that they have several items mixed together in their class feature: Bloodline. For you there's both Bloodline Arcana and Bloodline Power at first level, which are being added by adding a second bloodline. You are also changing the Spells class feature by reducing the number of spells known in the change to Crossblooded, but I can't imagine someone charging for retraining this limitation.

I would go with 10 days for the retraining, five for Arcana and five for Power. But, be sure to talk to GM's in your area, and perhaps a Venture Officer to get their read on it.

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

I've cross-posted this to my area's own message boards but I figured I'd post here as well to get as much response as I could. My gut says 10 days/prestige for the Bloodline Arcana and Class Skill, but as everything else being modified is at a penalty I figure that's what is being traded out for the additions. The Bloodline Power won't be changing so no cost for that. On a technicality I suppose i could just name Know (planes) as my class skill, which is the class skill gained from the other bloodline and not get charged for that, but I feel that's cheating.


Wouldn't it be simpler to just trade out your first level Bloodline Power for a Bloodline Familiar?

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Nevermind, I was not paying attention.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The rules for retraining your bloodline might be relevant:

"Sorcerer: Retrain your bloodline. Doing so replaces your bonus spells, bloodline arcana, bloodline feats, and bloodline powers. This training takes 5 days for every bonus feat, bloodline arcana, and bloodline power you lose from changing bloodlines. See also retraining feats and retraining spells known."

The lack of mention of class skill is interesting. Of course, the fact that a standard sorcerer changing his bloodline gets to replace one class skill for free does not necessarily mean that a standard sorcerer becoming a Crossblooded Sorcerer gets to add a class skill for free -- and in this case, the archetype retraining rules might be more relevant.

Also not mentioned is the replacement of bloodline bonus spells -- and a Crossblooded Sorcerer is most likely changing fewer bonus spells than a standard sorcerer changing bloodlines would be changing.

Obviously, you should be charged for acquiring a 2nd bloodline arcana.

On the other hand, it does seem that you should get a discount by not being charged for any bonus feats and bloodline powers of your original bloodline that you choose not to replace.

Also, it would be just plain cruel to charge the new Crossblooded Sorcerer for acquiring the archetype's Drawbacks feature.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/55/55/5 Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

Out of curiosity, instead of retraining bloodlines, why not just spend a couple feats for arcane heritage?

Hmm

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Or, if the goal is to obtain a Familiar, you could always go the Iron Will => Familiar Bond => Improved Familiar Bond route.

Silver Crusade 2/5

There's also the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype from Inner Sea Magic.

Link

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

The goal is ultimately to gain a familiar, preferably without starting the character over. Starting over is an option as all she's played are evergreen scenarios (with one exception), I would just prefer not to.

The Familiar Bond line might work, it would just end up taking a little bit longer, and I could always just retain her 1st level feat to Iron Will so I can pick it up the familiar at 3.

Dark Archive 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Plains

Is Eldritch Heritage an option?

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

Eldritch Heritage is an option, and would only be an investment of 2 feats, as to Familiar Bond's 3. Even so that's still 2-3 feats I'd rather spend on other things (like metamagic and toughness). Even with the prestige costs I'm starting to re-think how much I want a talking cat.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/55/55/5 Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

Okay, one feat and some cash:

Companion figurine

It's even PFS legal. It won't be a talking cat, but hey... it's still awesome! Owls and ravens can be great scouts and a lot of fun to roleplay.

Back to eldritch heritage... I don't have toughness or metamagic feats on Zahra my sorceress and she's still plenty effective. Try to get a variety of spells including some of the conjuration school that ignore SR, and you can handle most situations.

Hmm

Grand Lodge 5/5

Another way to do it, depending on the need, would be to obtain and apply a rebuild chronicle, which would allow you to do a one-time rebuild from scratch with all the currently legal PFS sources as of the date of application of the rebuild chronicle. The rebuild would allow you to fix more than just a bloodline/familiar. You might be able to obtain one through GMing at a CON (always a good thing!) and Paizo offers some nice GMing incentives, or you could try checking the boon trading thread. Maybe there's one over there.

On the point of prestige cost, I dislike the heavy prestige tax for retraining in Pathfinder Society. The sentence in the Guide on this point is nonsensical.

Guide 8, p.35 wrote:
"...as well as 1 Prestige Point per day of retraining since time between adventures is undefined."

The well-defined rebuild cost in Ultimate Campaign already includes a daily gold multiplier, and I'm not sure what difference it makes (or what the relevance is) if the time is undefined. For example, it shouldn't cost 5PP to move 1 skill rank in addition to all the gold. The same is true in your case. 10PP seems excessive in addition to the gold.

Also, considering that a PC is paying gold++ to retrain, it's not really calling in a favor from their faction. So, spending additional prestige has no real bearing on anything, except to tax the player and make it more difficult to retrain (which is counter to fun and flexibility). I love that retraining is allowed, however.

If the mechanic in PFS were to allow players to use prestige instead of gold to retrain, that would make more sense to me. Or, it could also be used to reduce the retraining time and required gold, which might be handy at higher levels where the cost increases. Maybe factions have experts that can streamline retraining for notable PCs. But, an arbitrary "undefined time" prestige tax makes no sense to me. YMMV.

I hope you are successful in modifying your character in a way that makes that PC enjoyable and engaging for you to play!

Silver Crusade 2/5

In the rules in Ultimate Campaign, there is a requirement for a teacher/trainer when you are retraining. The prestige cost in Pathfinder Society is to cover that requirement since roleplaying finding and convincing a teacher is beyond the scope of general downtime.

Grand Lodge 5/5

I made a new thread to discuss retraining prestige cost (off-topic). So, please direct follow-ups, as appropriate. Thx.

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