Abundant Step and 5 ft step


Rules Questions

1 to 50 of 64 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hey guys,

So I have a player playing an Unchained Monk and in the current combat, he has taken a 5 ft step, performed a standard action and then spent 2 ki to use Abundant Step to teleport somewhere else.

I want to make sure that this is a valid course of action. The break down of the actions is the following:

5 ft step = free action
Attack = standard action
Abundant Step = move action

While taking a move action doesn't necessarily remove the ability of taking a 5 ft step in that round (i.e. drawing a weapon, standing from prone, etc), the fact that in this case Abundant Step allows you to travel some distance via magical/supernatural means, makes it a bit confusing for me.

As I understand it, you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance. So would using Abundant Step to teleport somewhere else count as "moving" or would it not? I'm guessing that if it does, then he can only do one or the other, but if it doesn't then the course of action is fine.

Thanks ahead for any input.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
5 foot step wrote:
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement.

Seems to be an illegal combination of actions to me.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well this could cause problems.. If true that means magic users cant 5ft away to cast safely then Dim Door or Teleport away from trouble..


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yes, it is legal. Abundant Step is not the type of movement that the 5' step is referencing. It is referencing the type of movement that is defined/explained on CRB p170 while Abundant Step is a teleportation effect.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

BTW, a 5' step is not a free action; it is a non-action. (See near the bottom of the Actions in Combat table.) This matters occasionally.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hold on, to argue for the OP, I thought one could not take a five foot step in the same round he uses a move action to move. Specifically, if he uses that move action to cast a spell, fly, shift, teleport, or any other version of movement. Since DD is an ability that moves you, you should not be able to 5 foot in the same round. Is this correct?

Edit: This is copy and pasted from the Paizo website concerning 5 foot step.

Spoiler:
Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.

You cannot take a five foot step in any round where you move from your current spot, regardless of how you do it or what action you take that moves you. Special abilities that specifically say you can move, override this rule and are usually accompanied by the text along the lines of "even if you have made a 5 foot step this round."


Johnnycat93 wrote:
5 foot step wrote:
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement.
Seems to be an illegal combination of actions to me.

Looks same here, 5 ft step is a free action available only if no move is taking place in the current round, abundant step is a move and thus it's an either/or situation.


Teleport is not movement, movement is defined as movement modes (CRB p170). Teleporting is not a movement mode.


Yuri Sarreth wrote:
Well this could cause problems.. If true that means magic users cant 5ft away to cast safely then Dim Door or Teleport away from trouble..

different strokes, a 'movement' spell is dependent on the main action, not the move action.


Gauss wrote:
Yes, it is legal. Abundant Step is not the type of movement that the 5' step is referencing. It is referencing the type of movement that is defined/explained on CRB p170 while Abundant Step is a teleportation effect.

Does or does not Abundant step take the place of a move action?


Klorox wrote:
Gauss wrote:
Yes, it is legal. Abundant Step is not the type of movement that the 5' step is referencing. It is referencing the type of movement that is defined/explained on CRB p170 while Abundant Step is a teleportation effect.
Does or does not Abundant step take the place of a move action?

Ok, you appear to be confused on the issue.

You can perform move actions and still take 5' steps.
You cannot perform movement (such as walking, climbing, swimming, burrowing, or flying) and still take a 5' step.
Teleportation is not movement as intended by the rules regarding 5' step or the rules on movement.

If you believe it is, please quote the rule that says it is a mode of movement.


In the present case, using abundant step is both a move action and a movement (since it uses a movement action to, say, actually move), thus it precludes the use of a 5 ft step.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Klorox wrote:
In the present case, using abundant step is both a move action and a movement (since it uses a movement action to, say, actually move), thus it precludes the use of a 5 ft step.

No, it doesn't, because you are not performing movement. Again, movement is pretty well defined here, teleporting doesn't qualify.

I suggest doing a word search in the CRB for the phrase "movement" and you will find that 99% of the references are referencing movement that has to do with modes of movement. Ie: normal (walking), climbing, swimming, burrowing, and flying.

Alternately, try to find the word "movement" in either the chapter on conjuration, the Abundant Step ability, or the spell Dimension Door. You won't.

Really folks, you need to read the rules in context.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Got to agree with Gauss.

Teleportation isn't "movement", in that movement is contiguous change of position over time, whereas teleportation is change of position from one instant to the next without traversing the intervening space.

The game rules agree with this, since teleportation magic actually plane-shifts you to the astral, moves you on the astral plane, and drops you back to your original plane. You have not "moved" from square A to square B, you have teleported. At no point did you move out of the square you were in, rather you started in one square and ended in a different one.

The 5-foot step movement restriction is rather badly written, to be honest, because:

some people think it applies to teleportation
some people think it applies to forced movement (such as bull rush, or the ever hilarious 5-foot step off a ledge)

and it really shouldn't apply to either. Not to mention that "in the same round" is very different to "in the same turn", but doesn't apply to movement in a previous round.


I'd agree when it's spellcasters using their main action to move via spellcasting, but in the case of a monk using abundant step, it is using a movement action to change position... ergo, a move, albeit a non conventional one. In such a case, the teleport is not part of a normal action, but replaces a normal move action, and thus voids the 5ft step that is allowed when you haven't actually moved.

Liberty's Edge

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Wait! This is great!

Take a 5' step and you cannot be moved any distance that round!

Jester's Jaunt and other teleport effects an enemy might cast cannot move you! Bull rushers bounce off you! Gravity cannot pull you down! The rotation of the planet no longer drags you along! You stand outside the Musica Universalis and laugh at the impotence of the universe!

... or, I suppose, maybe that isn't what they meant.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
CBDunkerson wrote:

Wait! This is great!

Take a 5' step and you cannot be moved any distance that round!

Jester's Jaunt and other teleport effects an enemy might cast cannot move you! Bull rushers bounce off you! Gravity cannot pull you down! The rotation of the planet no longer drags you along! You stand outside the Musica Universalis and laugh at the impotence of the universe!

... or, I suppose, maybe that isn't what they meant.

B.

E.
A.
Utiful.

Edit: Where's that empty line coming from?!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Klorox wrote:
I'd agree when it's spellcasters using their main action to move via spellcasting, but in the case of a monk using abundant step, it is using a movement action to change position... ergo, a move, albeit a non conventional one. In such a case, the teleport is not part of a normal action, but replaces a normal move action, and thus voids the 5ft step that is allowed when you haven't actually moved.

Klorox, you are conflating move action and movement.

Abundant Step being a move action has absolutely NO bearing on this discussion.

Now, the question is, do teleportation effects such as Abundant Step qualify as movement?
If the answer is yes be prepared for a Pandora's Box of problems as a number of things are applied to teleportation effects that shouldn't be just because you deemed it 'movement'.

The answer here is no, teleportation effects do not qualify as movement because that is not only not the intent, it is absolutely clear it is not the intent when you look at the context of 'movement' in the rules.

If you really want, you can read the various threads where people have already debated this for the last 6+ years. The general consensus is that no, teleportation effects are not the movement that the 5' step is referencing.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I agree with Gauss.

The move action type is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with the scenario. You can do lots of things as move actions, but they do not preclude you from taking a 5ft step.

The question is, is using Abundant Step "movement" as a 5ft step cares about?

No, it's activating a SU ability. That SU ability just happens to move you.

Movement is defined in game terms as any type of movement speed to move yourself, not just changing your position within the round.


Can't agree, using a move action to actually move is relevant, regardless of the mode of movement, AFAICT... barring an actual FAQ to the contrary.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I agree with Gauss, Chemlak and Claxon, as well. I'll add my own comments at the risk of repeating their views, as Klorox persists in his interpretation.

The first point to make is that whether teleportation is activated via a standard action, a move action, a swift action, a free action -- it doesn't really matter in this case, as the action type has no bearing on whether whether you can take a 5 ft. step. I think this is very clear from the wording around 5 ft steps.

Instead, the question is solely focused on whether the teleportation effect is considered "movement" for the purpose of a 5 ft. step or not. If so, you can't do both on one turn. If not, there is nothing prohibiting it.

While I initially struggled with the idea that teleportation isn't movement, a review of the fuller context of the rules has convinced me that the word "movement" -- as used in the rules -- is NOT meant to include teleportation.

That understanding also aligns with how a 5 ft step is meant to work, namely, to allow a small, safe shift in positioning, such as to facilitate moving away to cast spells or positioning for attacks/full attacks without provoking an AOO.

The primary reason for not allowing this sort of small shift to be combined with "other movement" is so that you can't easily escape the threatened area of an enemy (without withdrawing as a full round action) or tack on an extra 5 feet to your movement in a given round (imagine a creature with a 5 foot move speed being able to just tack on a 5 ft move on the end of their movement for the round, effectively doubling their speed).

There is no similar rationale for not combining a 5 ft step with a teleportation effect, and such effects often have their own built-in limiting factors. (For example, Dimension Door does not allow the caster to take any other actions after casting it, while effects like Abundant Step are limited by ki usage.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Time for the fun hypothetical.

For some reason that I cannot fathom, a character with abundant step chooses to use it to go to the same square they started in, and their standard action to attack. Can they 5-foot step?


Let's recheck, Steel Refrain, you are saying that the actual action type used to trigger the teleport effect is irrelevant? and teleport, regardless of the action type that launched it is not regarded as "movement"? IThat would mean that indeed, using AS would not be "moving" regardless whether it's a move action or not.

My contention, though, is that a monk, has a choice between 5 ft step and AS when it comes to taking his move action... otherwise it means the monk can say... AS; strike, and take a 5ft step to move away from the target, or take a step tp get within striking range, attack, and teleport away. You regard such tactics as allowable? If so, I think I'll just agree to disagree.


Klorox wrote:

Let's recheck, Steel Refrain, you are saying that the actual action type used to trigger the teleport effect is irrelevant? and teleport, regardless of the action type that launched it is not regarded as "movement"? IThat would mean that indeed, using AS would not be "moving" regardless whether it's a move action or not.

My contention, though, is that a monk, has a choice between 5 ft step and AS when it comes to taking his move action... otherwise it means the monk can say... AS; strike, and take a 5ft step to move away from the target, or take a step tp get within striking range, attack, and teleport away. You regard such tactics as allowable? If so, I think I'll just agree to disagree.

Actually, he cannot.

Abundant Step functions like dimension door*, so, by rules, as soon as it's over, he's out of actions for the round.

So you have to use it at the end of your turn, or it's a net loss.

There are feats that mitigate it, but by that point, you're actually committing your character build to being able to do a specific trick, and that's kind of ludicrous to get a spurious benefit by committing so many resources.

* the spell says:

Dimension Door wrote:
After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
Abundant Step (Su): A monk with this ki power can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. The monk's caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability. A monk must be at least 8th level before selecting this ki power.

So its a move-equivalent action that gives the monk dimension door. Not movement, totally allowed with a 5 foot step.

The same way a wizard could 5' step, and then standard action to cast dimension door.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Agree with majority, as long as the 5' does not happen after the AS, or any other action for that matter, since you cannot take any other action after using dimension door.

So,

Standard > 5' > AS

or

5' > Standard > AS

But Not

AS > 5' > Standard

or

AS > Standard > 5'


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So it's worth noting, he could 5ft step, use a move action to draw an item (for whatever reasons), and then use their standard action to activate abundant step (since you can convert standard actions to move).

Does that affect how you interpret it Klorox?

Does it matter to you that the monk could move it's normal movement speed, and then activate Abundant Step using the standard action?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Klorox wrote:
Can't agree, using a move action to actually move is relevant, regardless of the mode of movement, AFAICT... barring an actual FAQ to the contrary.

Please show the rule that states the action type is in any way relevant to a 5' step. You can't because it is not there.

What is there is the phrase 'movement' which is not an action type and as I have shown, 'movement' almost always references 'modes of movement'.

Additionally, you have failed to show where it states that a teleportation effect is movement. If movement was not explained in the CRB then you might be right, but it is explained and so you are not.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

In this case, they are doing a five foot step, taking a standard action and then using a move action to activate a supernatural ability. It uses a move action, but it's activating a power, not moving.


Claxon wrote:

So it's worth noting, he could 5ft step, use a move action to draw an item (for whatever reasons), and then use their standard action to activate abundant step (since you can convert standard actions to move).

Does that affect how you interpret it Klorox?

Does it matter to you that the monk could move it's normal movement speed, and then activate Abundant Step using the standard action?

Yes it does, since the teleportation, in this case, takes the place of the normal action, and the move action was not occupied by any form of movement. He CAN usse his normal move and then convert his normal action into a move action to activate AS... it's combining the 5ft step with any other kind of position changing (not just what is normally termed as "movement") as part of the principal move action that bothers me.


Philo Pharynx wrote:
In this case, they are doing a five foot step, taking a standard action and then using a move action to activate a supernatural ability. It uses a move action, but it's activating a power, not moving.

It's a movement power, which turns the whole thing iffy to me, to the point that I would have official confirmation.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I doubt you'll get it. Most people seem to get how it works. Teleportation isn't movement. You can't run, hustle. It has no base speed. It's not affected by difficult terrain. It's not mentioned in the movement section of the rules.

Teleport is as much 'movement' as falling off a cliff.


It is an illegal move. From the PRD

Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

And

Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As with the majority in this thread, teleporting is not a form of 'movement' even if in the case of AS it is activated with a move action. Lots of things are activated with move actions (from drawing weapons, to standing up from prone, to opening a door) that are not movement - and thus do not prevent taking a 5' step.

Note also, that a standard action used to actually move some distance does prevent a 5' step - because you have used a form of one of the movement speeds talked about in the rules.

The important detail is not the action type used, but whether any actual movement (as defined by the games use of the word) has occurred.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jason Millo wrote:

It is an illegal move. From the PRD

Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

And

Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability.

I get the sense you may not have read the extensive discussion of this very point above.

The action type is not relevant to this question.

As much as they may sound similar, a move action does not equate with "movement". There are many move actions that don't involve actual movement, and the rules are quite clear that nothing prohibits a character from combining a move action and a 5 ft step.

The only prohibition on taking a 5 ft step in a round is that the character cannot combine it with actual movement. Some people argue that teleportation *is* movement. However, the larger consensus is that a closer consideration of how the term "movement" is used in the rules leads to the conclusion that teleportation is *not* movement.


its perfectly legal to 5foot step and teleport or abundant step etc.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Let's be clear. Teleporting absolutely is movement of a kind. So I totally understand why some people have issue with this combining with a 5' step.

However I would fall with the consensus that a spell does not count as movement for the purposes of 5' steps for the 'step away and teleport' reason given earlier. The abundant step specifically relates to the dimension door spell.

That said I wouldn't have a massive issue with a DM who ruled against that point as I can see the logic between the move action to move = movement argument.

That is the big difference between the teleport example (which is using a standard action). I think common sense allows the DM to say if it looks like X and it sounds like X then I'm going to treat it as X.

What if a creature had a teleport ability that was limited by its movement speed, useable as a move action? would this count as moving?


If under the creatures stat block, it had:

Speed: 30ft, fly 50ft (good), teleport 90ft

Then sure. I've never seen it, have you?

Teleporting is no more 'movement' than falling off a cliff. I also understand why people have issues with it. But the rules seem pretty clear.

And I have no idea why teleporting as a standard action is different. The action type makes absolutely no difference. It's a coincidence (unfortunate in this case) that move actions have the word 'move' in them, because they don't automatically make every move action movement.


Yes well falling off a cliff is a kind of movement. We may not think it prevents actions but falling is movement, as is driving a car, floating down a river or being carried on a horse. What they aren't are movement as we understand a creatures movement speed or type to be.

Now I don't personally feel these should prevent 5' steps. But let's not dismiss the opinions of people who interpret the specific line 'any kind of movement' in a strict sense. If that is their opinion they are entitled to it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Whether they are entitled to their opinion is a bit irrelevant. This is about what the rules say. And in the rules, in a strict sense, teleport is not 'movement' that is relevant to the 5' step rule, no matter what type of action: standard, swift, free or move is used to initiate it.

It's actually not insulting to tell someone that they are incorrect, though certainly it can be done in an insulting matter.

I would be a bit amused to see someone with that opinion insist that if you take a 5' step off of a cliff, you don't fall because that would be movement.


When a poster being correct is a question of opinion not fact everyone should be a bit more open minded. Interpretations of how rules interact tend to be opinions unless specified in FAQs (which are really just better explained rules)

Ozzy You misrepresented what I was saying. At no point did I say falling off a cliff wouldn't happen. I merely said it involves moving. Claiming that it doesn't is factually incorrect.

I disagree with your unilateral view of movement...

The Dimensional Dervish feat allows you to teleport up to double your movement speed in between a full round attack. This effectively does give someone a 'teleport movement speed'.

Are we suggesting that this character would be able to take a normal 5' move as well? I see nothing special about teleporting that means it isn't movement - only that the specific spells dimension door/teleport traditionally don't count as moving.

Dimensional dervish does blur that boundary for me and therefore I'm willing to give some credence to the argument that 'any kind of movement' might mean just that.

Being in the minority of an opinion doesn't mean it's wrong - it just means it's less popular.

Edit: It's not particularly relevant to the argument but even the spell name suggests something that requires movement through. Lol. I am still fond of that interpretation as described in a lot of d&d fiction.


The only movement we are discussing here is movement that is invalidated when one takes a 5' step.

Since nobody is at absolute zero, we are always 'moving' in a factually and technical sense, but that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The Dimensional Dervish feat does not give someone a stat block of:

Speed: 30 ft, teleport 60ft

so yes, they would be able to 5' step because Dimension Door is not movement that is relevant to the 5' step issue.

When someone stands up, they are moving.
When someone is falling, they are moving.
When someone is on a ship, they are moving.
Heck, when someone is standing still, they are still moving because the planet they are standing on is moving.

All of that movement is irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is what type of movement is disallowed when one takes a 5' step.

To find the answer to that, we look in the Movement section of the Pathfinder rules which defines movement as forms of travel with a 'speed' in which one can hustle and run. Teleport does not qualify.


Good. I'm glad we agree that movement is movement.

There are lots of things discussed in the Movement section. An exhaustive list of methods by which creatures travel from one place to another is not one of them. I can see no specific rule in the movement section which excludes teleport from being a type of movement? Can you point me to one? In which case we are dealing with interpretation.

I cannot agree with your interpretation that Dimensional Dervish (which uses movement speed as a limit on distance travelled) does not count as movement, simply because it crosses intervening without passing through them. The addition of a movement speed (double your base movement) changes the interaction for me. That is my interpretation of the feat, and the rules on 5 foot steps.

I really don't see how the stat block is relevant. It is just an abbreviated list of some commonly selected statistics. The benefits of feats and class abilities are often not included in the stat block description because frequently (as in this case) they don't apply without activation.


No, the stat block is important because it defines movement as travel using speed. Speed is what is used to say how far your movement can take you, and is affected by things like obstacles, difficult terrain, and poor visibility.

All movement has a speed. Teleport does not have a speed. Teleport is not movement.

Quote:
Good. I'm glad we agree that movement is movement.

Dude, seriously? That's what you got out of it? This is what you should have gotten out of it:

There is no such thing as non-movement, therefore if all movement prevents 5' steps, nobody can ever, EVER take 5' steps, because everyone is always moving.

So clearly, not all movement is 'movement' when it comes to 5' steps.


I agree with you. That movement is movement. Also that falling and being pushed or spinning on the earths axis doesn't prevent 5ft steps. I took issue that it was argued earlier that these things weren't movement when in fact what people meant is they weren't relevant.

What is relevant to the question of 5 ft steps is movement that requires effort or time (or probably both)

Teleport through Dimensional Dervish absolutely does have a speed - it's equal to twice your base movement. If speed wasn't relevant to this form of travel why would your speed be used to calculate it. It doesn't change the stat block for the same reason having the fly spell on your list doesn't add a fly speed to your stat block.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

No, teleport through Dimensional Dervish absolutely does not have a 'speed'. It has a range that is calculated from your base speed limited by the range of the spell. Completely different.

You can't hustle or run using Dimensional Dervish. It doesn't have a speed. It's not movement that is relevant to 5' steps.

Quote:
I took issue that it was argued earlier that these things weren't movement when in fact what people meant is they weren't relevant.

Seriously? You knew what they meant. They knew what they meant, and you were being contrary to what...be annoying?

Dark Archive

I think at this point there really is no point to this page. By the rules you can 5 foot step and do any form of teleportation. If you have dimensional agility Abundant step does not end your turn. Move actions are not the same as Movement. This question has been answered multiple times already, and the counter argument has only been "nuh uh, I don't think so." To the OP your monk is absolutely working within the rules to do take a five-foot step, hell he could move and still use the ability. Just remember that without certain feats that abundant step ends his turn.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I can certainly understand the viewpoint of the other side, such as standing from prone and taking a 5" step as being legal and thus Abundant step being in the same realm of move action.

I simply disagree and would not allow it in a game I was running, and this is my reason why:

Move Action: A move action allows you to move up to your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Actions in Combat for other move actions.

You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move action for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.

In my opinion the ability results in distance, therefore it is movement.

However, I also would not argue the subject if another DM allowed it in their game. Ultimately it is at the discretion of the GM running the game and how they interpret the rule of movement.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Falling also results in distance, therefore it is movement? Being pushed also results in distance, therefore it is movement?

No and No.

Quote:
If you move no actual distance

The key word there is 'move'. This is not the generic word 'move' which means to move any distance via any means (like falling, being bull rushed, etc...), this word 'move' means to use your speed. Teleport does not use your speed.

How can you tell? You look right before that under move action:

Quote:
Move Action: A move action allows you to move up to your speed

That is the 'move' they are using, and that uses your speed. If you're not using your speed, you're not 'moving' in the sense that is being used in the above rules. Otherwise, if teleport was 'movement' you would only be able to teleport up to your speed, unless you were running or hustling for x4 and x2 respectively.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Falling and being pushed are movements outside your control. Abundant step is your choice to move. That is how I differentiate them.

You also leave off the last half of the move action definition, which is: or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time.

Overall, it is an ambiguity. I personally don't think there is a right or wrong answer. It is up the the DM's interpretation.

1 to 50 of 64 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Abundant Step and 5 ft step All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.