"Spend a Move Action"


Rules Questions


Morning all,

I play a Cad. I'll ask your forgiveness in advance, as I am not only inexperienced with pen and paper RPGs, I also don't have access to the bajillion Paizo supplements and third-party stuff, so I'm about as close to a "vanilla" Cad as you can get.

The main thing that attracted me to this class was the Dirty Trick theme, and the opportunity to play a character that thinks the best time to kick anyone is while they're already down, and that the strong are strongest alone (but with plenty of bodies between him and the enemy), so I'm happy with my choices so far.

The main thing making me scratch my head is the Dirty Trick status removal process: the rules state that "the results can be undone if the target spends a move action".

Now when I read that, I think "oh hey that's good, so they can stop being Blinded but that means they can't use their Move action and have to stay where they are, so this is great for battlefield control". However, after managing to Blind an opponent (they had Blind-Fight anyway) the GM stated that the enemy would spend his next turn moving a few squares over, thus removing the Blind condition, and then attack.

I know if you've got BAB+1 you can do something like that, but that specifically states "you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move", whereas this says you need to "spend" one.

Obviously the GM is the final arbitrator in any game, but for my own sanity I need to know: if a rule or effect or spell or what have you states that you have to "spend" a move action, does that mean you don't get to use the action to move? Or can you combine removing a status with a regular move?

Thoughts, suggestions, evidence, precedents and cheeky observations welcome!

Thank you for your time,

Od. :)

Dark Archive

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You are absolutely correct; if the rule says you spend a move action, you've spent it and cannot use it too move. You could still move with you standard action, but that would be you're standard action gone.

Also, while you're right in that the GM is the final arbitrator, I would definitely talk to you're GM about this, because RAW he his wrong, and while he's perfectly within his rights to house rule whatever he wants, this is kind of a massive nerf to Dirty Tricks, and they aren't that great anyway without massive feat investment.

Dark Archive

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Yeah and the whole "You can move and draw a weapon if you have BAB +1" thing is an exception to this rule, and the only one that I'm aware of. It also ONLY applies to drawing weapons, not anything else (if that wasn't clear).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It could be that the GM is creatively reading "the results can be undone if the target spends a move action" as "[...] if the target [takes any] move action", instead of the clearly RAI "[...] if the target [uses] a move action [for this purpose]".

There's a (really bad) case for the false interpretation, since the rule says "if [...] spends a move action" but doesn't quite explicitly say "for this purpose", so any move action they spend removes the effect.

But it's a bad case, because there aren't any rules which work like that, and the closest is the BAB +1 move & draw, and that one's really specific about what it does.

Silver Crusade

The target could spend a move action to clear the condition, do something with his standard action that isn't moving, and still do a five-foot-step, which is not an action.

The answer to the question is that you cannot use your move action to move and also spend that move action to clear a condition.


The target could also use a move action to remove the blindness, another move action to reach you, but then wouldn't be able to attack.


Chemlak wrote:

It could be that the GM is creatively reading "the results can be undone if the target spends a move action" as "[...] if the target [takes any] move action", instead of the clearly RAI "[...] if the target [uses] a move action [for this purpose]".

There's a (really bad) case for the false interpretation, since the rule says "if [...] spends a move action" but doesn't quite explicitly say "for this purpose", so any move action they spend removes the effect.

But it's a bad case, because there aren't any rules which work like that, and the closest is the BAB +1 move & draw, and that one's really specific about what it does.

+1 If this ruling was applied across the board the game would be hilariously broken as players (and enemies) could stack multiple "spend a standard action" and "spend a move action" effects.


Beautiful! Thanks for your replies folks, I shall be prepared for if it happens again! :)

Much obliged,

Od.


I agree with the above consensus regarding how it's supposed to work.

I appreciate your statement that the GM is the final arbiter, but I should add that I think if he decides to stick with his ruling, you should ask if you can rebuild your character since you built him based on an understanding of the rules that won't be used in this game.

It's perfectly fine if he decides to make such a change, but you should also be free to change your character since the rule is being - rather dramatically - changed.

It would be akin to a GM waiting until after a game has started before asking the wizard if he had a mundane material component the first time he went to cast a spell because the GM decided to change the rule. The wizard should have the opportunity to retroactively pick up specific ingredients or select eschew materials since that wasn't explained prior to the game starting.

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