Statting Sorshen for post-campaign adventures

[Stratagemini]

So, I had hoped that the Curse of the Crimson Throne Hardcover would have Sorshen statted up to add to my collection of Runelords for the adventures I send my Players on after they finish their Varisia APs. Unfortunately, the book does not have her.

So, I'm looking either for a book that Paizo has published that does stat her up, or for any suggested statblocks people are willing to make for her.

Here's what we know about Sorshen, she's a CE female Azlanti, Thassilonian Specialist Enchanter 20+ (where the plus either denotes Mythic or some other sort of template or additional power source) according to Inner Sea Magic. We know that racially she's an otherwise normal Azlanti Human, from her pseudo-appearance in Curse of The Lady's Light.

We know that although she herself was probably not a vampire, she was obsessed with the power of blood and had many Vampire minions. We also know that she was effectively Immortal due to blood rituals and didn't age because of that. This allowed her to rule Eurythinia since the founding of Thassilon.

We know she wielded either a (lewdly shaped) Mithral staff, or a double-headed guisarme able to summon two bodyguards. Finally, we know that she (like Karzoug) had Implanted Ioun Stones.

We can Guess that her stats were Generated using a 25 Point buy Array like all other Runelords seen so far. And that's she's used Wish to augment her stats even further. But beyond that I don't know anything else about her.

Given that information, is there a statblock for her already published? Or has anyone made one that I can use in my Post-campaign adventure?

[Evan Tarlton]

We know she is Mythic, and the second most powerful Runelord after Xanderghul. I'd say she has 2 ranks, with Xanderghul having 3 and Alaznist 1.

[John Napier 698]

The original Curse of the Crimson Throne was written for use with D&D 3.5, so the class levels above 20 implied the use of the (broken?) Epic Level Handbook. Which is why the new hardcover APs are coming out, they are being rewritten for use with Pathfinder.

[Stratagemini]

John Napier 698 wrote:

The original Curse of the Crimson Throne was written for use with D&D 3.5, so the class levels above 20 implied the use of the (broken?) Epic Level Handbook. Which is why the new hardcover APs are coming out, they are being rewritten for use with Pathfinder.

The 20+ comes from Inner Sea Magic, a Pathfinder Handbook. She's not described in the original Curse of the Crimson Throne stat-wise.

[MrVergee]

There is a link to some Sorshen stats in this thread. It does not include mythic rules yet, though.

If you ever work out a Sorshen scenario, I'd like to hear about it. I'm considering something similar myself.

[Generic Villain]

I'm 80% sure I read James Jacobs say somewhere that her mythic path is Trickster. She's ranked somewhere between Alaznist (who is herself slightly stronger than Karzoug) and Xanderhgul in power. That could place her challenge rating anywhere from about 23-29.

You can bet she has the standard suite of Paizo Super Character: a +3 bonus to all three mental scores due to old age; +4 or +5 inherent bonus to all six ability scores, granted via wish; a million or more gp in equipment (I once broke down Karzoug's equipment and came away with a value of just over 2 m). She also likely some unique vampire-like abilities, and possibly the advanced simple creature template.

I'd peg her around CR 25. Which also happens to be the average CR of the villains statted up in "continuing the campaign" sections in the final installment of each Adventure Path. That could be accomplished with Enchanter 20/Trickster 6 with some extra abilities worthy of a +1 CR boost.

[RuyanVe]

As a pureblooded ancient Azlanti she'd gain +2 bonus to all her six stats, too.

Ruyan.

[JohnHawkins]

This is my rough version. I used marshal rather than trickster as it seemed more appropriate for mental manipulation (trickster seems to be all about sneak attack), I did not give her any archmage abilities as they are very powerful .
This is not peak optimisation , several feats are wasted notably spell focus necromancy is needed so she can take the metamagic allowing her to charm corporeal undead which seemed appropriate.
She has between +4 and +5 to all stats except strength from wish spells and has stat boosting items, I have not worked out all gear

Sorshen:

Sorshen
Female human (Azlanti, Pureblooded) wizard 20/Marshal 6 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic 17)
CE Medium humanoid (human)
Hero Points 1
Init +13; Senses Perception +28
Aura shape emotions (30 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 17, flat-footed 10 (+7 Dex)
hp 266 (20d6+184)
Fort +13, Ref +13, Will +20
Defensive Abilities hard to kill, mythic saving throws
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Special Attacks mythic power (15/day, surge +1d8)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 20th; concentration +37)
. . M mythic spell
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 24, Con 24, Int 44, Wis 26, Cha 36
Base Atk +10; CMB +10; CMD 27
Feats Extend Spell, Greater Spell Focus (enchantment), Improved Familiar, Infectious Charms, Leadership, Mythic Spell Lore[M], Mythic Spell Lore[M], Mythic Spell Lore[M], Necrotic Spell, Persistent Spell[APG], Persuasive, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll, Silent Spell, Spell Focus (enchantment), Spell Focus (necromancy), Spell Perfection[APG], Still Spell, Tenacious Spell
Skills Acrobatics +27, Appraise +40, Bluff +41, Diplomacy +45, Disguise +33, Escape Artist +27, Fly +30, Intimidate +43, Knowledge (arcana) +40, Knowledge (geography) +40, Knowledge (history) +40, Knowledge (local) +40, Knowledge (nobility) +40, Knowledge (planes) +40, Knowledge (religion) +40, Linguistics +40, Perception +28, Sense Motive +28, Spellcraft +40, Stealth +27, Use Magic Device +33
Languages Azlanti, Common
SQ amazing initiative, arcane bond (arcane familiar, quasit), beguiling touch, commanding entrance[], display of charisma[MA], enchanting smile, fast friends[], force of will, hero points, longevity[MA], rally[MA], recuperation, silver tongued
Other Gear belt of physical might +6 (Dex, Con), headband of mental superiority +6, wizard starting spellbook, 150 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
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Amazing Initiative (1/round) (Ex) As a free action, use 1 power to gain an extra standard action (can't be used to cast a spell).
Beguiling Touch (20 HD maximum, 10 rounds, 20/day, DC 37) (Sp) Touch charms.
Commanding Entrance (60 ft. radius) (Ex) Spend 1 power when entering an area to influence attitudes of those near you.
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Display of Charisma (Su) As a free action, use 1 power for +20 to a Cha skill or check.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Enchanting Smile (Su) When you save vs. an enchantment spell, it is turned against its caster as spell turning.
Extend Spell Spell duration lasts twice as normal. +1 Level.
Familiar Bonus: You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Fast Friends (6 hours, DC 29) (Sp) Spend 1 power to improve attitudes of creatures within 30 ft. by 1 step.
Force of Will (Ex) As an immediate action, use 1 power to reroll any d20, or force non-mythic to reroll.
Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) +1 to the Save DC of spells from one school.
Hard to Kill (Ex) Automatically stabilize when dying, and only die at neg Con x 2.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Infectious Charms Your charm/compulsion spells can affect another creature within 30 ft. of target.
Leadership (score 33) You attract loyal companions and devoted followers.
Longevity (Su) You don't take penalties to physical ability scores due to aging.
Lust (Manipulator) Assocated School: Enchantment
Mythic Saving Throws (Ex) A successful save negates all effects from a non-mythic source.
Mythic Spell Lore [Mythic] Gain mythic spells equal to your mythic tier.
Mythic Spell Lore [Mythic] Gain mythic spells equal to your mythic tier.
Mythic Spell Lore [Mythic] Gain mythic spells equal to your mythic tier.
Necrotic Spell Your spells are more effective against corporeal undead.
Persistent Spell Foes must succeed at 2 saves or suffer the spell's full effects.
Quicken Spell Cast a spell as a swift action. +4 Levels.
Rally (Su) As a swift action, use 1 power to grant allies in 30 ft a d20 reroll before your next turn.
Recuperation (Ex) Fully heal after 8 hrs rest, use 1 power and 1 hr to heal half and restore all non-mythic abilities.
Scry on Familiar (1/day) (Sp) You can scry on your familiar, as the spell.
Shape Emotions (20 rounds/day) (Su) 30' aura either grants +4 morale bonus to allies or -2 penalty to enemies on saves vs. mind-affecting. Allies also count fear effects as 1 step lower (frightened - panicked - shaken - no effect).
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Silent Spell Cast a spell with no verbal components. +1 Level.
Silver Tongued You can shift a creature's attitude by three steps with Diplomacy.
Speak with Animals (Ex) Your familiar can communicate with animals similar to itself.
Speak with Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar.
Spell Focus (Enchantment) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Focus (Necromancy) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Perfection (Dominate Person) The selected spell can have 1 metamagic feat applied for free, as long as the modified level stays at or below 9. Double the effects of feats like spell focus, weapon focus [ray], etc. on this spell.
Still Spell You can cast a spell with no somatic components. +1 Level.
Surge (1d8) (Su) Use 1 power to increase any d20 roll by the listed amount.
Tenacious Spell Spell is difficult to dispel and remains for 1d4 rounds

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[Generic Villain]

Something to consider, from Sorshen's Creator:

"Likewise with Sorshen; we're leaving her levels a mystery for now. She WAS the second most powerful runelord, though, and Karzoug was the 4th most powerful. As a result, I'm pretty sure that Sorshen was at least a 25th level enchanter... possibly even higher level.

This was before Mythic rules of course, so yeah. At least as of 8 years ago, Sorshen theoretically might have hovered around 25th level or higher. And because nothing is set in stone until it's formerly published, here's that same creator three years later:

"Runelord Sorshen was the 2nd most powerful Runelord. She should be more powerful than Karzoug. I'd put her at CR 24 or 25. Only Runelord Xanderghul's more powerful than her in the Runelord Power Race.

Sorshen is likely a 20th level enchanter/4th level rogue, with a 20 point buy ability score setup and PC level of equipment. But I'm hoping to hold of actually saying for REAL what her levels are so that if and when we do a post-20th level game, we can stat her (and Alaznist and Karzoug and Xanderghul) up proper!"

[James Jacobs]

It is now nearly six years after that, and the game today is not the same as it was back then.

We now officially do not have characters who are above 20th level—the official Sorshen will not be something like a 20th level enchanter/4th level rogue when (NOT if, but WHEN) we stat her up.

If I had to stat her up today, she'd be a 20th level enchanter with 5 tiers in trickster, a 25 point buy with PC wealth, and other customized ad-hock unique abilities that would work together to result in a CR 25 foe.

And of course, when the time comes for me to stat her up (which is not today or anytime soon), she might well be something entirely different—she might not even use mythic rules at all, but something else to gain her boost in power. After all, we build things like kaiju and demon lords mostly independent from mythic rules (what mythic content shows up in their stats is almost a side-note that mostly exists only because mythic exists in the first place).

[Generic Villain]

James Jacobs wrote:

It is now nearly six years after that, and the game today is not the same as it was back then.

Yeah, I was mostly using your old quotes to give the OP an idea of how Sorshen might look. Knowing that, in pre-mythic days, she could have had levels in Rogue is a good way to get a feel for her conceptually. Slightly more useful than just Enchanter 20+ as listed in Inner Sea Magic.

[James Jacobs]

Generic Villain wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

It is now nearly six years after that, and the game today is not the same as it was back then.

Yeah, I was mostly using your old quotes to give the OP an idea of how Sorshen might look. Knowing that, in pre-mythic days, she could have had levels in Rogue is a good way to get a feel for her conceptually. Slightly more useful than just Enchanter 20+ as listed in Inner Sea Magic.

The Inner Sea Magic entry is indeed the most accurate... so WHATEVER we do with her, she's gonna be a 20th level enchanter. The "+" there was stand-in code for the fact that we hadn't yet made public the plans for Mythic Adventures.

So yeah... making her an enchanter 20 with 5 trickster levels actually does most of that work. She probably has the advanced creature template too because why not?

[Zhangar]

A interesting alternative would be to go with 5 mythic ranks instead of trickster tiers.

Tiers are probably stronger overall, but ranks

1) have the nice implication that after her immortality ritual (which may have been her moment of ascension) she transitioned from mortal to literal monster, and

2) allow for some weird flexibility that tiers don't - she could simply pick up a mix of trickster abilities, archmage abilities, and monster abilities, like vampiric blood drain.

Edit: And something that allows her to take hostile actions against victims of her charms and compulsions without breaking them.

So that a person charmed by Sorshen would simply allow her to drink them.

[Stratagemini]

Zhangar wrote:

A interesting alternative would be to go with 5 mythic ranks instead of trickster tiers.

Tiers are probably stronger overall, but ranks

1) have the nice implication that after her immortality ritual (which may have been her moment of ascension) she transitioned from mortal to literal monster, and

There's a pretty strong implication in Curse of the Crimson Throne that Soshen's immortality ritual was in the vein of Lady Bathory. Using the blood and lives of her subjects to stop aging. The ability that gives you is actually detailed in the Hardcover, and it doesn't affect your race.

Quote:

Edit: And something that allows her to take hostile actions against victims of her charms and compulsions without breaking them.

So that a person charmed by Sorshen would simply allow her to drink them.

sorshen's definitely human as of Inner Sea Magic she actually does have something that lets her do that in Soshen's mirror from Lost Kingdoms. You can also do that as a sort of unique ability for Sorshen.

[Zhangar]

Our own history has demonstrated quite amply that being humanoid (human) and being an absolute monster are not exclusive. =P

[Generic Villain]

While I don't personally thin Sorshen should have mythic ranks, as opposed to proper mythic tiers, going to be a bit pedantic here:

The Mythic Rulebook makes it pretty explicit that ranks are for "monsters" and tiers are potentially for anyone. That said, mechanically speaking, there's no reason other than this fluff that otherwise-normal, human beings can't have mythic ranks instead. It bucks the trend obviously and is weird, but if a DM wants to swing that way, Sorshen will end up looking pretty similar regardless. Different stats and power obviously, but I think the two would be pretty comparable strictly in terms of power level.

In other words, giving Sorshen mythic ranks doesn't necessitate turning her into a monster. It certainly can - especially if, for example, you made her a pseudo vampire as suggested in Lady's Light.