So I got invited to a group that's in the middle of the Giantslayer campaign. They've just hit level 9. After talking to the player that recruited me, what they really need is a melee combatant.
Ideally, I'd play a paladin. But I'm new to the group, and it's their policy not to allow paladin characters until they have a better understanding of how the player acts in the campaign.
I was toying with making a Bloodrager/ Dragon Disciple build, but I misunderstood something about the Blood of Dragons ability and how it would severely limit the progression of the Bloodrager class features.
So now I'm completely up in the air about what to do. I don't know if I should focus on tweaking the Bloodrager/ Dragon Disciple build or investigate another melee build.
A Fighter and Slayer are in the group already. I'm just wondering what I can do to contribute. I was considering a Warpriest or rogue at one point, but I'm not sure anymore.
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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Take a look at a dwarven barbarian with the dreadnought archetype. Good stuff there.
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Dwarven Warpriest of Torag? You could run a two-handed build, maybe go reach, focusing on a Dwarven long hammer?
Maybe grab the Arsenal Chaplain archetype to boost the melee side.
I don't know a ton about the AP, but seems like this would probably fit conceptually and mechanically against giants.
I've been meaning to try out a dwarf character at some point. Maybe this is the moment to give it a shot.
What do you think you misunderstood about blood of dragons progressing the blood rated bloodline?
Dwarf two-handed weapon with favorite enemy of giant. Be a giant slayer
plaidwandering wrote: What do you think you misunderstood about blood of dragons progressing the blood rated bloodline? Well, the plan going in was to take 5 levels of Bloodrager, then 7 levels of Dragon Disciple. Given how I thought Blood of Dragons worked, I figured that when I was at 12 HD, my effective Bloodrager would be 10. That meant I could take a proper level of Bloodrager when I got my 13th HD and pick up Greater Bloodrage.
But no, that's how it works. Because Blood of Dragons only affects your effective spellcasting level and bloodline progression. It doesn't cover class features. So even though I would have an effective class level of 11 for the bloodline and spells, I would have a Bloodrager level of 6 for class features.
Kenky wrote: Dwarf two-handed weapon with favorite enemy of giant. Be a giant slayer There already is a Giant Slayer. I need to bring something else to the table.
Greater blood rage is pretty much a wash with the first str from DD though
plaidwandering wrote: Greater blood rage is pretty much a wash with the first str from DD though True. But then I miss out on the benefit of being able to cast buff spells on myself as a swift action.
is half giant allowed? if so half giant titan fighter 1/abyssal bloodrager x would use a huge greatsword out of rage or a gargantuan one great sword in rage(after the blood line ability kicks in) its ok mechanically but has a lot of flavor with hey im killing you with your own kind of weapons combined with primalist to weed out the bad bloodline abilities you could have a decent character build and should be different enough from the favoured enemy giant guy to not step on his toes character flavor wise.
Yes, decide whether you prefer swift low lvl buffs or the extra breath weapon and blind sense. No wrong answer, just what you prefer
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Who is wielding Agrimmosh? Fighter (weapon master) with a focus on hammers for all of your combat related stuff. If you can get the hand, too, I'd recommend it. Our just-now-10th level fighter is unstoppable, particularly when enlarged. He's not min-maxed, either (though we started with 25-pt builds).
My other choice would be a ranger/fighter specializing in bows. My son is playing a pure ranger (infiltrator) and it gets ugly when the dice are being kind. He actually chose not to put his 2nd upgrade into giants because it's already easy enough.
Lady-J wrote: is half giant allowed? if so half giant titan fighter 1/abyssal bloodrager x would use a huge greatsword out of rage or a gargantuan one great sword in rage(after the blood line ability kicks in) its ok mechanically but has a lot of flavor with hey im killing you with your own kind of weapons combined with primalist to weed out the bad bloodline abilities you could have a decent character build and should be different enough from the favoured enemy giant guy to not step on his toes character flavor wise. No half-giants. Paizo material only.
Dwarf seems to me the hands-down best race for someone who may be likely to fight giants in melee.
Quote: There already is a Giant Slayer. I need to bring something else to the table. If your group thinks you need more melee (are the Fighter and Slayer both archers?) and you have to bring something else to the table, go Warpriest. If your group is short on divine casting I'd consider melee Cleric.
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Oh, wait a minute... if you already have a fighter and a slayer, why on earth did they tell you they need more melee? That confuses me.
taks wrote: Oh, wait a minute... if you already have a fighter and a slayer, why on earth did they tell you they need more melee? That confuses me. From my understanding, the Slayer has a ranged build. Which leaves a single fighter for melee combat.
Athaleon wrote: Dwarf seems to me the hands-down best race for someone who may be likely to fight giants in melee.
Quote: There already is a Giant Slayer. I need to bring something else to the table. If your group thinks you need more melee (are the Fighter and Slayer both archers?) and you have to bring something else to the table, go Warpriest. If your group is short on divine casting I'd consider melee Cleric.
There are both dedicated cleric and wizard players. The Slayer has a ranged build, I do believe.
could go unchained monk so long as the dm is nice and lets you enchant yourself for unarmed strikes instead of using AoMF
Lady-J wrote: could go unchained monk so long as the dm is nice and lets you enchant yourself for unarmed strikes instead of using AoMF AoMF?
Edit: Just realized you meant the Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Madokar Valortouched wrote: Lady-J wrote: could go unchained monk so long as the dm is nice and lets you enchant yourself for unarmed strikes instead of using AoMF AoMF?
Edit: Just realized you meant the Amulet of Mighty Fists. yes only cruel gms make monks use AoMF for their unarmed strikes
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Madokar Valortouched wrote: taks wrote: Oh, wait a minute... if you already have a fighter and a slayer, why on earth did they tell you they need more melee? That confuses me. From my understanding, the Slayer has a ranged build. Which leaves a single fighter for melee combat. That's all you should need. Spells for buffs and/or some measure of healing and skills are next. We are running an investigator, shaman, ranger, fighter, mostly pure (the shaman has a level of something else).
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Please take that with a grain of salt. I don't know your party dynamics nor your GM's style. I'm just speaking from the way I'm running the AP and the way my crew is handling it.
ah sounds like the group could use a wizard sorc or cleric then
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Metamorph alchemist, no way that module doesn't have some sweet oversized gear in it and being able to live in giant form could be super useful.
UC Monk dip and then Shape-shift focused Druid adds a lot to the group without stepping on people's toes. Some nice group utility spells, large sized creatures fits the campaign setting, and you're past the early section of proceedings where you don't have enough casts/shifts per day.
Dwarf also one of the better if not best races for this choice too.
15, 12, 16, 10, 17, 7 after racials. Bump Str then Wis all the way.
Lady-J wrote: ah sounds like the group could use a wizard sorc or cleric then They have both a dedicated cleric and wizard. Hence the need for melee combatants.
I'd suggest a Mouser Swashbuckler build. Underfoot Assault, Monkey Shine, get the Paladin to take Paired Opportunists with you, carve up giants. There are also times in Giantslayer where it is VERY useful to be able to operate by stealth... so a sneaky little character could be a good addition to the group.
Something I just quickly whipped up. Uses the cleave feats (especially the dwarf only ones):
Dwarven Cleaver
S - 16 (10) (18 with level 4/8 boost)
D - 10
C - 18 (10)
I - 10
W - 12
Ch - 8
Feats
1st - power attack
1st - cleave
2nd - cleaving finish
3rd - goblin cleaver
4th - great cleave
5th - orc hewer
6th - improved cleaving finish
I haven't looked at the feats for 7-10, though at level 11 you have giant killer and cleave through to choose from.
Your primary weapon is the Long Hammer, though you can switch to Warhammer and Shield when things get too close. Because Giants are so large it's very easy for them to be adjacent to each other, they just don't have the room to maneuver.
Get the highest AC you can because you want to get surrounded (also why the high Con is necessary).
The fact that cleave and cleaving finish stack is just gravy, add reach and enlarge and you may run out of targets before you run out of attacks.
Strictly/mostly melee builds? Some might already be mentioned, but just some ideas:
If you're purely going for effectiveness, Dwarf is probably the best race because of the bonuses for fighting against giants. Replace racial hatred with the giant hunter alternate trait for extra to-hit against the main foe type.
Warpriest with a reach weapon with Destruction and War (Gorum worshipper). Divine Favor swift casting makes up for not being full BAB, when you need it; most of the opponents in the AP don't have super high ACs. The two blessings, once activated, make a not insignificant increase in damage, and the war blessing gives you some other options when you aren't needing to attack in a specific round.
Ranger with Giant as favored enemy. Pretty straight forward.
Goliath Druid; fight giants at their own game, and make use of their giant sized weapons that you take from them. You're also a full spell caster.
Beastrider Cavalier to get access to some of the more interesting (and big) mounts. The Dwarf FCB for Cavalier is +1/2 damage per level against target of your challenge.
Vivisectionist/Beastmorph Alchemist, later taking a few levels in Master Chymist. Dwarf FCB gives bonus AC.
Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Studied target makes up for lack of full BAB, and you have some good self buffs and utility spells. Some sneak attack dice is just a bit of gravy.
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Goliath Druid with the Strenght domain. It's a wonderful thing to be able to say "I Bull Rush the giant to the ground!"
I second the ranger suggestion. Build a switch hitter dwarf ranger that REALLY hates giants. Should give you something to do on the way to the fray, then let you dive in and tear them up. (If you haven't seen it, check the treantmonk ranger guide for suggestions. You might be surprised at how low he suggests you put your dex at.)
I am running a Dwarf Arsenal Chaplain archetype, Warpirest using a Dorn Dergar through the later parts of Giants right now.
Benefits -
High survivability with AC (Shield of Faith is usually better the Rings of Deflection people can get) and very good Saves.
Very Accurate with Divine Favor and all the other cleric buffs I can use. Arsenal Chaplain also grants the fighter training for more accuracy.
Access to cleric spells! Allows emergency healing and scroll use.
Negatives -
My damage output is usually 20-40 damage less per round then the other front line 'fighters'. This is due to not getting the extra attacks a full BAB class gets, as they usually have one more attack then me.
Overall, I see my job as being more of a stopper where I try and hold back one big nasty guy or a bunch of his enforcements for a couple of rounds while the party deals with the rest of the enemies.
Goliath druid. You get to actually turn into giants. Think about the scouting opportunities, the ability to have a perfect disguise.
Druid melees just fine, and can provide some extra area support if needed.
We are looking at Cavalier for our melee specialist. We figured giant lairs will be big enough to handle a large mount, so the ideal AP to try one.
Just made did a once over of the group's overall requests. They also seem to need someone who is a smooth talker and can provide buffs. So some of them suggested Bard as an addition.
I'd personally suggest paladin, then. It's got full BAB, a great potential for Diplomacy, and the class's various auras provide a various degree of buffs. Not to mention the mercies from Lay on Hands. But the GM doesn't want a paladin from me since I'm the new player to the group.
I don't think I will have a character ready to play on Saturday when they have their next session. But I'm going to head down all the same and talk to everybody. Get a feel for the group, establish what I want to accomplish as a player and all that.
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Unchained Rogue with Vexing Dodger archetype, focus in Dirty Tricks. I'm DMing for one in my own Giantslayer group, likewise at level 9. Dirty Fighting, Surprise Maneuvers, Slow Reactions, Greater Dirty Trick. Player is rocking a +25 on Dirty Tricks and isn't even fully optimized.
Stone Giants are blinded on a roll of 5 (before any buff effects) for 1d4 rounds, standard action to remove. Amongst other things, but man, 1d4 rounds of blind pretty much ruins anything. PC in my game basically picks one giant and says "Mine." and solos it while the rest do whatever they want.
Just pay attention to position of enemies, less for flanking purposes but for the fact your AC is good against the one you're climbing on, but not the rest.
Race is really open to whatever, Dwarf is still solid, anything with either a climb speed or a fly/glide is really good for reaching the top of a giant quickly. If no climb speed, Skill Unlock: Climb to keep dex and Slow Reactions to prevent attacks of opp while climbing the target.
The Black Bard wrote: Unchained Rogue with Vexing Dodger archetype, focus in Dirty Tricks. I'm DMing for one in my own Giantslayer group, likewise at level 9. Dirty Fighting, Surprise Maneuvers, Slow Reactions, Greater Dirty Trick. Player is rocking a +25 on Dirty Tricks and isn't even fully optimized.
Stone Giants are blinded on a roll of 5 (before any buff effects) for 1d4 rounds, standard action to remove. Amongst other things, but man, 1d4 rounds of blind pretty much ruins anything. PC in my game basically picks one giant and says "Mine." and solos it while the rest do whatever they want.
Just pay attention to position of enemies, less for flanking purposes but for the fact your AC is good against the one you're climbing on, but not the rest.
Race is really open to whatever, Dwarf is still solid, anything with either a climb speed or a fly/glide is really good for reaching the top of a giant quickly. If no climb speed, Skill Unlock: Climb to keep dex and Slow Reactions to prevent attacks of opp while climbing the target.
Was thinking of going with an Unchained Rogue on a Kitsune Character at one point. I'll look into that Archetype, see if it suits me.
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Madokar Valortouched wrote: The Black Bard wrote: Unchained Rogue with Vexing Dodger archetype, focus in Dirty Tricks. I'm DMing for one in my own Giantslayer group, likewise at level 9. Dirty Fighting, Surprise Maneuvers, Slow Reactions, Greater Dirty Trick. Player is rocking a +25 on Dirty Tricks and isn't even fully optimized.
Stone Giants are blinded on a roll of 5 (before any buff effects) for 1d4 rounds, standard action to remove. Amongst other things, but man, 1d4 rounds of blind pretty much ruins anything. PC in my game basically picks one giant and says "Mine." and solos it while the rest do whatever they want.
Just pay attention to position of enemies, less for flanking purposes but for the fact your AC is good against the one you're climbing on, but not the rest.
Race is really open to whatever, Dwarf is still solid, anything with either a climb speed or a fly/glide is really good for reaching the top of a giant quickly. If no climb speed, Skill Unlock: Climb to keep dex and Slow Reactions to prevent attacks of opp while climbing the target.
Was thinking of going with an Unchained Rogue on a Kitsune Character at one point. I'll look into that Archetype, see if it suits me. Check with your GM for this combination to make sure he/she agrees it'll work. It depends on whether or not the GM thinks that a character climbing on an opponent is sharing that opponent's square. The rules for Vexing Dodger do not say either way.
If your GM agrees that the square is shared, then dip a level into Mouser Swashbuckler. This allows you to count as flanking as long as one ally is adjacent to the opponent being climbed, and the ally gets the flanking bonus, as well. Additionally, any attacks made by the climbed creature against anyone other than your Rogue take a -4 to hit penalty.
Madokar Valortouched wrote: Lady-J wrote: ah sounds like the group could use a wizard sorc or cleric then They have both a dedicated cleric and wizard. Hence the need for melee combatants. srry read the We are running an investigator, shaman, ranger, fighter, mostly pure (the shaman has a level of something else) from some one else and though it was you as i was reading about 5 different forums at the time
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Hehe, I missed that.
For the record, our group needs neither. The investigator hands out elixirs like liquid candy, and the shaman is a respectable healer.
taks wrote: Hehe, I missed that.
For the record, our group needs neither. The investigator hands out elixirs like liquid candy, and the shaman is a respectable healer.
That aspect is what makes investigator my favorite class
Brawler. Disarm their clubs, use snake style to avoid those massive attacks, have fun taking whatever feats whenever you want. Level 9 is about where the class starts ramping up in a big way!
So there's been a change of plans. The party's dedicated healer character died tonight. She's going to build another class, and I can go in with a healer build on a cleric.
I'm toying with the idea of a NG aasimar that is a follower of Pharasma or Sarenrae. Both goddesses have the Healing domain. It's just a matter of deciding which other domain suits the campaign better.
Go with the a versatile warrior/cleric melee badass, Dwarven Ranger 1/Cleric 4/Skyseeker 4. Good skills, good casting, great melee, awesome for this campaign. Use an earthbreaker just for funs.
The healing domain seriously isn't necessary to heal. In a couple of levels it won't even be useful - neither breath of life nor heal is a 'cure spell'. The only reason to take it would be if you were going for the Merciful Healer archetype.
Glory/Heroism (Sarenrae) sounds more useful than anything Pharasma offers.
Edit: Sun/Revelation could be useful too.
I highly recommend not making a main healer. But make a character you want to play that can heal.
with things shifting around, it seems like the strategy is taking on the giants 1 on 1 without overall team dynamics. You could introduce a team based character to change that;
* Melee and team players are cavaliers or fighter(tacticians).
* Wizards with battlefield control, healing, and their usual tricks could shift combat tactics around. They're most effective when a group strategy is used. If you need a healer go samsaran wiz(diviner) and pick up 5 druid spells for cure light, entangle, barkskin, wall of thorns... or go conjurer to trick out summon monster and pick up similar spells...
* Bard or Skald, for healing you'll need a dip
on the 1 on 1 fighters/healers
* previously suggested warpriest.
* previously suggested ranger(giants)/cleric/...
* cleric of Erastil - natural archers and summon tigers early, and there's the healing.
* swashbuckler/mousers are very effective. Dip into cleric.
* Paladin/Oracle.
lots of choices...
Shocked no one has mentioned this yet, but you could be a Monk (MoMS?) and take the Earth Child feat line. Dwarf or gnome prerequisite, if you take the entire feat line you can trip any size creature of the giant subtype with significant bonuses, add your wisdom modifier to damage and retroactively make your AoO when they stand up from being tripped a Stunning Fist attempt at a sizeable bonus.
Party now consists of:
Summoning focused wizard, human (also provides limited buffs)
Spear and shield fighter, human (main front liner, reckless but good at his job)
Crossbow sniper slayer, human (party scout, plays very roguey, packs a wallop when conditions are just so)
Sanctified slayer inquisitor of Cayden Cailen, gnome (plays very roguey, doesn't ever contribute much at all to combat)
Blaster sorcerer, ifrit (new character, uncertain efficacy--intends to be the party face)
Sanctified slayer inquisitor of Angradd, dwarf (new character, uncertain efficacy--intends to front line with fighter)
The inquisitors have some healing ability but we lack a truly focused healer as well as a controller and/or dedicated buffer. The optimization level of the group is moderate at best. No one is looking to play or play with something that will make the DM cry and, most times, the sheer size of our group makes up for any lack of build acuity.
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