Deinonychus attack and AOO rules question


Rules Questions


I recently started a game playing a hunter with a Deinonychus companion. Under attacks it is listed as 2 talons, 1 bite. I am assuming that for basic attacks I would get the two talons (and a bite if its a full attack), but how would an attack of opportunity work? Can I choose which attack to use (talons, bite, or post lvl 7, claws?), and if I chose talons would I only get one talon instead of the normal two? Just want to make sure I'm playing this right.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Your normal full attack routine is Bite/Talon/Talon. Your normal single attack, including AoO, would be either Bite or Talon.

Later on your normal full attack routine becomes Bite/Talon/Talon/Foreclaw/Foreclaw. Your normal single attack would be either Bite or Talon or Foreclaw.


You only get multiple attacks on a full attack, so on a standard action attack or AoO you would not get both talons. You are correct that on a single attack or AoO you can choose which to use.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A standard action attack is only one attack (one of talon, bite or claw, or whatever the beastie is listed as having) while a full attack action lets you do it all.

If at some point your critter gets the pounce ability, this can change.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

You only get a single talon or a bite. This is, by the way, how standard attacks work as well. It's listed as 2 talons, but they are not "linked", you only get both talons when making a full attack.


Good to know. Thanks all.


Oh, secondary question, what, if anything would the Multiattack feat do for this? Based on the description of the companion it doesn't look like any of these attacks count as secondary. I say that because other companions (such as the large cat) specifically have labels for secondary attacks. So when the companion hits level 9, does it just get a feat that its not going to use?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

That's correct, Multiattack is useless for a companion or character who has no secondary attacks

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Foreclaws are secondary.

Multiattack can't be taken by a creature with less than 3 natural attacks, but Animal Companions with fewer than three natural attacks instead gain a second attack with one of their natural weapons, albeit at a –5 penalty.


Nefreet wrote:

Foreclaws are secondary.

Multiattack can't be taken by a creature with less than 3 natural attacks, but Animal Companions with fewer than three natural attacks instead gain a second attack with one of their natural weapons, albeit at a –5 penalty.

You quote the character sheet of the actual creature, but I was under the impression that you only work with the sheet of the companion version, which does not mark them as secondary (see Allosaurus, Drake, etc. for examples of creatures that are marked with secondary attacks).

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Sometimes you have to reference the Bestiary.

Not everything is always described in the Companion entry. An Ankylosaurus's "Stun", for example.

Nothing in the Companion entry for the Deinonychus describes its Foreclaws as either Primary or Secondary, so we need to look elsewhere.

The Bestiary entry shows them as Secondary.

If you need more information, there's the Natural Attack chart.

Foreclaws, being "Other", are listed as Secondary there, as well.


Nefreet wrote:

Sometimes you have to reference the Bestiary.

Not everything is always described in the Companion entry. An Ankylosaurus's "Stun", for example.

Nothing in the Companion entry for the Deinonychus describes its Foreclaws as either Primary or Secondary, so we need to look elsewhere.

The Bestiary entry shows them as Secondary.

If you need more information, there's the Natural Attack chart.

Foreclaws, being "Other", are listed as Secondary there, as well.

Except if a companions attacks are secondary, it specifically notes that. Like with the horse:

Quote:

Horse

Starting Statistics: Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 hooves* (1d6); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent. *This is a secondary natural attack, see Combat for more information on how secondary attacks work.


I'm going to agree with Jeraa here, the foreclaws are primary attacks unless listed otherwise.

As to the question about multi-attack, when an animal companion without any secondary attacks gains multi-attack, they instead gain a second attack with a primary natural weapon with the -5 penalty . This has been confirmed by staff on the boards, and is the way the animal companion npcs are built in several places.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Yeah, the Bestiary deinonychus has "foreclaws" that are Secondary attacks, but the animal companion deinonychus doesn't get "foreclaws". It just gets regular old "claws" which are Primary attacks, according the Universal Monster Rules.

If they meant for the deinonychus animal companion's "claws" to be different from normal claws, they needed to name them something distinct (like "foreclaws") or specifically call them out as Secondary attacks.


Much obliged for all the answers. Definitely going to make playing my character easier and more clear going forward.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Deinonychus attack and AOO rules question All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.