(Contest) Find the Highest Manifester level Possible


Advice and Rules Questions


Along the same theme of this thread, I'd like to see if the community can come up with the highest Manifester level possible.

Given 20th level Psion: 20
Wild Surge: +6
Overchannel +3


Using Metaconcert to gain +1 manifester level per concert attendant combined with Overchannel and Wild Surge, the best that the power can be augmented is by using 29 power points, giving a total of 15 participants.

This results in a Manifester Level of 35, which is the best I can find so far. This also comes with some severe restrictions: no feats or class features can alter any manifestation that is powered via the PP pool provided by metaconcert -- so no metapsionic/metamagic feats, which means no scaling of saving throw via feats.


Psigifted gives +1 manifester level for one particular power.


I missed this earlier, but Overchannel can't be used with Wild Surge. So the best manifester level for Metaconcert is 27, which allows for +13 ML for a total of of 33 for powers manifested via the Metaconcert PP pool.


A Psion 10/Body Snatcher 10 can get manifester level 30 + 3 (overchannel) on manifestations of Mind Switch or True Mind Switch.


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Remind me again on how psionics isn't broken?


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Eh, you can do worse with a coven of accursed sorcerers Drahliana. There's no cap on their aid anothers, and no limit on what they can do with the increased caster level. As in D&D psionics is similarly broken but to a slightly lesser extent.


Drahaliana,

Check out the link in my first post. Regular arcane casters are *much* worse than psionics.

I've been searching for anything even remotely equivalent to accursed sorcerers with psionics. It doesn't exist (at least so far).

And even if there was a equivalent, psionics doesn't have automatic scaling like arcane/divine magic. Even with a high manifester level, you still have to spend the power points and have the right feats in order to up the saving throw or damage done.


With psionics-magic transparency wouldn't many magic ways of raising caster level raise manifester level?


A Setting Stone of Invigoration provides +1 ML for 10 minutes/day. While it requires Talented & Overchannel to make it works in a different way to either and very likely stacks.


avr wrote:
With psionics-magic transparency wouldn't many magic ways of raising caster level raise manifester level?

Magic/psionic transparency doesn't really apply insofar as feats/class abilities are concerned. Only that magic and psionics affect each other equally.

Good catch on the Setting Stone.


avr wrote:
Eh, you can do worse with a coven of accursed sorcerers Drahliana. There's no cap on their aid anothers, and no limit on what they can do with the increased caster level. As in D&D psionics is similarly broken but to a slightly lesser extent.

You have to use funky magic items and techniques to do for arcane spellcasters what psionics do with built in class abilities.


note that the body snatcher can do that only with its signature powers... that's specialisation at its finest, is all. and of 6 available levels, it loses two manifesting levels too


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Quote:


You have to use funky magic items and techniques to do for arcane spellcasters what psionics do with built in class abilities.

The Coven hex is a built in class ability of the Witch, Drahaliana. No "techniques" or "magic items" involved. The first post on the link got a spellcasting level up to 42 with no drawbacks at all whatsoever for the arcane caster.

And no spellcasting levels lost at all, nor any backlash like for Wilder -- Nothing in psionics even compares.

Hell, with the Coven Hex, and archetypes, clerics can get in on the action too.


With VMC multiclassing, EVERYONE can get in on this action.


Quintain wrote:

Along the same theme of this thread, I'd like to see if the community can come up with the highest Manifester level possible.

Given 20th level Psion: 20
Wild Surge: +6
Overchannel +3

How in God's name are you Wild Surging with 20 levels of Psion and zero levels of Wilder?


Prince of Knives wrote:
Quintain wrote:

Along the same theme of this thread, I'd like to see if the community can come up with the highest Manifester level possible.

Given 20th level Psion: 20
Wild Surge: +6
Overchannel +3

How in God's name are you Wild Surging with 20 levels of Psion and zero levels of Wilder?

I'm not, really. I'm simply assuming 20 levels of manifester and using whatever class abilities are available. If that requires 20 levels of psion, or 20 levels of wilder, it doesn't really matter for the task at hand.

A scaled up surge crystal would do the trick, however.

Interestingly a wild surge from a level 20 wilder + standard/scaled up surge crystal can give +12 ML.


Quintain wrote:
Prince of Knives wrote:
Quintain wrote:

Along the same theme of this thread, I'd like to see if the community can come up with the highest Manifester level possible.

Given 20th level Psion: 20
Wild Surge: +6
Overchannel +3

How in God's name are you Wild Surging with 20 levels of Psion and zero levels of Wilder?

I'm not, really. I'm simply assuming 20 levels of manifester and using whatever class abilities are available. If that requires 20 levels of psion, or 20 levels of wilder, it doesn't really matter for the task at hand.

A scaled up surge crystal would do the trick, however.

Interestingly a wild surge from a level 20 wilder + standard/scaled up surge crystal can give +12 ML.

My friend, far be it from me - the guy with a vested interest, after all - to tell you what to do or not do with our products in terms of optimization, but psionics suffers from a bad case of people saying things like this:

Quote:
Remind me again on how psionics isn't broken?

As it is. If you're gonna try and break through the barriers between truth & sanity, at least show the homework on it instead of giving impressions like this, yeah? Consider it a personal favor.


Quote:


As it is. If you're gonna try and break through the barriers between truth & sanity, at least show the homework on it instead of giving impressions like this, yeah? Consider it a personal favor.

PoK: Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, there are some peoples minds that you simply cannot change. I refuse to even put forth the effort to try to do something so futile.

But as a personal favor, I'll attempt to be as accurate as possible.

If someone finds an error in my concept or math, please post.


So, anyway, getting back to the task at hand.

Our best combination of Manifester level increase is:

Wilder Level 20: 20 ML
Wild Surge: +6 ML (Perfect Surge +10)
Surge Crystal (standard): +3 ML (stacks with wild surge)
--------------------------------------------------------
29 ML (for all spells)

Temporary/Limited Bonuses:
+1 ML (Setting Stone of Invigoration) - for 10 minutes
+1 ML (Trait bonus for 1 Power)
Metaconcert gives +5 Standard, but fully augmenting the power (with Setting stone, Trait, Perfect Surge, and Surge Crystal) allows for up to +18 ML requiring 18 psionic creatures able to provide PP to the Metaconcert Pool.

Equaling Max ML of 42:
-- Explanation: Surge Crystal and Setting Stone of Invigoration are the only ML bonuses outside the concert able to be used (+4 total). 18 psionic creatues + +4 for Items = 22 ML bonuses.


Quintain wrote:

So, anyway, getting back to the task at hand.

Our best combination of Manifester level increase is:

Wilder Level 20: 20 ML
Wild Surge: +6 ML (Perfect Surge +10)
Surge Crystal (standard): +3 ML (stacks with wild surge)
--------------------------------------------------------
29 ML (for all spells)

Temporary/Limited Bonuses:
+1 ML (Setting Stone of Invigoration) - for 10 minutes
+1 ML (Trait bonus for 1 Power)
Metaconcert gives +5 Standard, but fully augmenting the power (with Setting stone, Trait, Perfect Surge, and Surge Crystal) allows for up to +18 ML requiring 18 psionic creatures able to provide PP to the Metaconcert Pool.

Equaling Max ML of 42:
-- Explanation: Surge Crystal and Setting Stone of Invigoration are the only ML bonuses outside the concert able to be used (+4 total). 18 psionic creatues + +4 for Items = 22 ML bonuses.

There we go. Notably, that ML still has to be backed up with PP expenditure to get most of what you want, though. You do get 9-13 (depending on Perfect Surge) of that for "free" off of the surge & surge crystal.


Oof. I was really excited to see what this surge crystal was until I realized it took a headband slot. +3 manifester level while surging is great but... headband of mental superiority+6....

This is an interesting exercise but I feel like you're leaving important character aspects on the chopping room floor to achieve this.

Unless there is another way to achieve my +6 Charisma?

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