Air Elemental vs Swarm


Rules Questions


Can a Air Elemental use Whirlwind vs a Swarm?

What happens exactly?


swarm gets hit 1 times as a swarm counts as 1 creature even if they are surrounding some one but takes no damage as they are immune to weapon damage if they are fine or deminitive, or half damage if they are tinny


This is the paragraph in the monster rules about Whirlwind that I'm wondering about -

Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the whirlwind might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (generally damage equal to the monster's slam attack for a creature of its size) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + half monster’s HD + the monster’s Strength modifier) when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take damage as if it were hit by the whirlwind creature's slam attack. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage but can leave if the save is successful.

According to this, it kind of looks like a Air Elemental can "suck" up the swarm and do damage to it. As the swarms size is smaller.


That is correct. If the swarm comes into contact with the elemental, is has to roll it's Reflex Save. If it fails, it takes damage. After that, the swarm rolls the second Reflex Save. If it fails, it will be picked up and take the damage each turn until the effect ends, the swarm dies or the elemental dies.


oh the universal monster ability i was thinking the whirlwind feat ability you may be able to trap part of the swarm for a bit but would not take damage if they were smaller than tiny and half damage if tiny as the ability sites the creatures slam attack which would be weapon damage


Swarm wrote:
Swarms made up of Diminutive or Fine creatures are susceptible to high winds, such as those created by a gust of wind spell. For purposes of determining the effects of wind on a swarm, treat the swarm as a creature of the same size as its constituent creatures

So no matter the size of the swarm, for a wind effect it is treated as a creature the size of its constituent creatures.

Since the Whirlwind affects "creatures one or more size categories smaller" this will basically always affect swarms.

Swarm wrote:
A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.

Since Whirlwind affects an area, the swarm will take extra damage.

Whirlwind wrote:
take damage when caught in the whirlwind (generally damage equal to the monster's slam attack for a creature of its size) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + half monster’s HD + the monster’s Strength modifier) when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take damage as if it were hit by the whirlwind creature's slam attack

Swarms take reduced or no damage from weapon attacks, but that DOES NOT apply to the Whirlwind. The Whirlwind is not a weapon attack, it simply has equal damage to the creature's slam attack. It is not, itself, a slam attack, it is a area of affect special attack.

So all swarms would take damage, and in fact would take extra damage for being an AOE effect.


That was how I was reading it but wanted to make sure if that was how others also viewed it.


Samasboy1 wrote:
Swarm wrote:
Swarms made up of Diminutive or Fine creatures are susceptible to high winds, such as those created by a gust of wind spell. For purposes of determining the effects of wind on a swarm, treat the swarm as a creature of the same size as its constituent creatures

So no matter the size of the swarm, for a wind effect it is treated as a creature the size of its constituent creatures.

Since the Whirlwind affects "creatures one or more size categories smaller" this will basically always affect swarms.

Swarm wrote:
A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.

Since Whirlwind affects an area, the swarm will take extra damage.

Whirlwind wrote:
take damage when caught in the whirlwind (generally damage equal to the monster's slam attack for a creature of its size) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + half monster’s HD + the monster’s Strength modifier) when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take damage as if it were hit by the whirlwind creature's slam attack

Swarms take reduced or no damage from weapon attacks, but that DOES NOT apply to the Whirlwind. The Whirlwind is not a weapon attack, it simply has equal damage to the creature's slam attack. It is not, itself, a slam attack, it is a area of affect special attack.

So all swarms would take damage, and in fact would take extra damage for being an AOE effect.

hmm neat just pray that the swarm doesn't have regeneration we had to fight one of those one time it was not prety

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