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A significant piece of history seems to be missing in my lore. In a nut shell, dragons brought magic to the world and helped the humans and other races develop civilization. Only the dragons possessed magic (which was far beyond the Players Handbook spells) and used it to help control greater aspects of the world such as raising food, building monuments, controlling the weather, and so forth.
Then the humans got jealous and wanted magic for themselves. They acquired the magic but were not able to comprehend its difficult nature and thus the only thing they could get out of it was the paltry spells we find in our D&D games today.
The only problem is HOW did the humans steal the magic from dragons? I'm looking for ideas.
Humans breed like rabbits compared to dragons, perhaps the sheer number of human mages threatened to overwhelm the dragons. Therefore the dragons unleashed an artifact of unknown origin as a last ditch effort to curb the human swarm. Unfortunately the dragons underestimated the purpose of the artifact and it caused a severe reduction in magical power.
Or perhaps the dragons themselves were the source of magic and the war waged upon them by the humans causes an inevitable loss of power?
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Fooling them is traditional.
For example, the Dragon of Kraków, in real-world myth, was defeated by a clever peasant who wrapped a lot of saltpeter in a sheepskin; when the dragon ate it, it burned a hole in his stomach and killed him. There's a vaguely similar myth about how sacrifices to Zeus were started -- he was given a choice between a pile of meat (which was buried under a pile of offal) or a pile of bones (which was buried under a layer of snow-white fat), and Zeus, being the idiot that he is, picked the good-looking fat. Ever since then, Greeks -- well, ancient Greeks, anyway -- sacrificed animals by burning the fat and the bones, but eating the meat and offal.
Dragons are basically symbols of greed and narcissism. So a cunning human hero presumably offered to trade something shiny but valueless -- maybe a pile of iron pyrite ("fool's gold," in English) -- for dragon magic. Maybe in your world, pyrite is called "dragon gold"....
He could also use one of the standard word plays. For example, the arrogant dragon offered to give his magic to someone who could do something impossible, and of course, the human pulled it off. ("Give me a chicken without any feathers or bone!" thundered the Eldest of Dragons -- and the dragon was given an egg. That sort of thing.)
Humans breed like rabbits compared to dragons, perhaps the sheer number of human mages threatened to overwhelm the dragons. Therefore the dragons unleashed an artifact of unknown origin as a last ditch effort to curb the human swarm. Unfortunately the dragons underestimated the purpose of the artifact and it caused a severe reduction in magical power.
Or perhaps the dragons themselves were the source of magic and the war waged upon them by the humans causes an inevitable loss of power?
There wouldn't be any mages or other spell casters among the humans (or other races) until after magic was stolen. That act would bring rise to arcane and divine casters however.
I agree the dragons could have simply been overwhelmed by sheer numbers of humans. They would have been trained in non-spell casting classes such as the Fighter or Barbarian. A direct confrontation using an huge number of humans against the dragons could be possible.
Dragons would have access to magical items such as the artifact you suggest. Humans would not unless they stole it. Once they acquired the knowledge of magic, the creation of magical items would be available to them.
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Fooling them is traditional.
For example, the Dragon of Kraków, in real-world myth, was defeated by a clever peasant who wrapped a lot of saltpeter in a sheepskin; when the dragon ate it, it burned a hole in his stomach and killed him. There's a vaguely similar myth about how sacrifices to Zeus were started -- he was given a choice between a pile of meat (which was buried under a pile of offal) or a pile of bones (which was buried under a layer of snow-white fat), and Zeus, being the idiot that he is, picked the good-looking fat. Ever since then, Greeks -- well, ancient Greeks, anyway -- sacrificed animals by burning the fat and the bones, but eating the meat and offal.
Dragons are basically symbols of greed and narcissism. So a cunning human hero presumably offered to trade something shiny but valueless -- maybe a pile of iron pyrite ("fool's gold," in English) -- for dragon magic. Maybe in your world, pyrite is called "dragon gold"....
He could also use one of the standard word plays. For example, the arrogant dragon offered to give his magic to someone who could do something impossible, and of course, the human pulled it off. ("Give me a chicken without any feathers or bone!" thundered the Eldest of Dragons -- and the dragon was given an egg. That sort of thing.)
Interesting ideas. I hadn't thought about the humans tricking the dragons. In this world dragons are the fore bearers of civilization. They taught humans, elves, dwarves how to come out of the stone age. The dragons (at this point in history) are all good alignment, which includes the red, green, black, white and blue varieties.
Essentially, the dragons are suppose to be the good guys, the saviors of the world and the humans are the ones that ruined it, first by stealing magic and not understanding how to wield it, then by starting wars with the dragons and demi-humans. Humans eventually were losing the war so they summoned demons and devils to turn the tide of the war they started. They won the war but are now prisoners to the very creatures they summoned. Humans are kinda the low lifes of the world. The continuous contact with demons and devils eventually corrupted the above mentioned species of dragon so they became evil. In addition, even some of the good aligned dragons have been corrupted.
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Make your dragons multidimensional: they were never all on the same page. Some of them wanted to "enlighten" the lesser races and gave humans access to their magic (check Prometheus, the myth of).
Initially they gave the knowledge to a select few who they considered wise enough to deal with the intricacies of their magic without being corrupted and destroyed by it. Unfortunately they miscalculated and one of these human acolytes decided to use his newfound powers to make himself a king among men, going as far as to kill a dragon.
This prompted the majority of dragons that never agreed to help the humans to lash back causing a cataclysm of huge proportions. In the end humanity survived, even if severely reduced in numbers and dragons became rare,as most of them decided to move away/hide bringing their powerful magic away.
A few of the original acolytes survived though: a faction trying to bring back the magic of dragons for good purposes and another formed by the followers of the betrayer who wants to recover the secrets of draconic magic for evil. And then there's the matter of what became of the betrayer himself... he was defeated but not destroyed and since he used his magic to make himself basically immortal he was just contained and waits for the day he will be free once again...
Make your dragons multidimensional: they were never all on the same page. Some of them wanted to "enlighten" the lesser races and gave humans access to their magic (check Prometheus, the myth of).
Initially they gave the knowledge to a select few who they considered wise enough to deal with the intricacies of their magic without being corrupted and destroyed by it. Unfortunately they miscalculated and one of these human acolytes decided to use his newfound powers to make himself a king among men, going as far as to kill a dragon.
This prompted the majority of dragons that never agreed to help the humans to lash back causing a cataclysm of huge proportions. In the end humanity survived, even if severely reduced in numbers and dragons became rare,as most of them decided to move away/hide bringing their powerful magic away.
A few of the original acolytes survived though: a faction trying to bring back the magic of dragons for good purposes and another formed by the followers of the betrayer who wants to recover the secrets of draconic magic for evil. And then there's the matter of what became of the betrayer himself... he was defeated but not destroyed and since he used his magic to make himself basically immortal he was just contained and waits for the day he will be free once again...
I like a lot of this. Some of it works well with the parts of history and world development I already have. I really like the idea of the select dragon(s) giving only a few humans magic, those they felt could use it wisely. Then things go wrong as you suggest. I like the "King Among Men" idea. Also the factions originating from the acolytes adds a dimension of power groups to the world, something which it needs.
I have a kingdom of dragons, each color has its own territory and despite alignment differences they all are led by the Council of Great Wyrms, in which each color or dragon is represented. The alignment differences that have developed cause internal strife between territories as well as within the territories themselves.
Interesting ideas. I hadn't thought about the humans tricking the dragons. In this world dragons are the fore bearers of civilization. They taught humans, elves, dwarves how to come out of the stone age. The dragons (at this point in history) are all good alignment, which includes the red, green, black, white and blue varieties.Fooling them is traditional.
Shrug. Just because they're "good" doesn't mean they're not arrogant pricks. Sherlock Holmes was also an arrogant prick, and his expy Gregory House is even worse, but I'd argue they're both "good."
I could easily see even the "good" dragons wanting to uplift the humanoids, but not too far, because naturally dragons are superior beings. Indeed, that's sort of how Greek gods viewed humans, which is why Prometheus stole fire from the gods and gave it to mankind.... because the gods wouldn't give it to them.
Interesting ideas. I hadn't thought about the humans tricking the dragons. In this world dragons are the fore bearers of civilization. They taught humans, elves, dwarves how to come out of the stone age. The dragons (at this point in history) are all good alignment, which includes the red, green, black, white and blue varieties.Fooling them is traditional.
Shrug. Just because they're "good" doesn't mean they're not arrogant pricks. Sherlock Holmes was also an arrogant prick, and his expy Gregory House is even worse, but I'd argue they're both "good."
I could easily see even the "good" dragons wanting to uplift the humanoids, but not too far, because naturally dragons are superior beings. Indeed, that's sort of how Greek gods viewed humans, which is why Prometheus stole fire from the gods and gave it to mankind.... because the gods wouldn't give it to them.
Arrogance would definitely fit them. Altruistic dragons with a messiah complex that don't take into account the avarice and mercenary ambitions of man.
I like it a lot.
Interesting ideas. I hadn't thought about the humans tricking the dragons. In this world dragons are the fore bearers of civilization. They taught humans, elves, dwarves how to come out of the stone age. The dragons (at this point in history) are all good alignment, which includes the red, green, black, white and blue varieties.Fooling them is traditional.
Shrug. Just because they're "good" doesn't mean they're not arrogant pricks. Sherlock Holmes was also an arrogant prick, and his expy Gregory House is even worse, but I'd argue they're both "good."
I could easily see even the "good" dragons wanting to uplift the humanoids, but not too far, because naturally dragons are superior beings. Indeed, that's sort of how Greek gods viewed humans, which is why Prometheus stole fire from the gods and gave it to mankind.... because the gods wouldn't give it to them.
Arrogance would definitely fit them. Altruistic dragons with a messiah complex that don't take into account the avarice and mercenary ambitions of man.
I like it a lot.
It does fit well with the tone of the world and the history and kingdoms already developed. Thank you.
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In L. Sprague de Camp's novel The Tritonian Ring, the gorgons were a highly magical race that lost most of their magic and civilization to their human servants through a mix of arrogance, complacency, and laziness. The gorgons initially taught humans as helpers; over time, the more fertile/numerous humans assumed more and more responsibility for magic (allowing the gorgons more leisure), until the humans learned enough to overthrow and enslave them. A similar process could allow at least one group of humans the opportunity to "steal" magic from dragons in your world.
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Magic is a prime force in fantasy. It is not something owned by any race in the mortal world; including among dragons. What is owned is the knowledge of how to access and manipulate magic. What mankind would have stolen from dragonkind was knowledge. This fits quite well into any form of mythology. In Judeo-Christian lore what did Adam and Eve steal? Knowledge of good and evil. In ancient Greek lore what did Promethius give to man without Zeus' permission? Knowledge of fire. In innumerable myths and legends what is it that man gains control of that is the cause of all his problems and trials? Knowledge.
In a fantasy world most humans don't have the intellect or force of will to truly control magic while even the most slow witted of full dragons can control magic with ease. So the humans who stole the knowledge of magic from dragons releases a chaotic and poorly understood form of magic into the world. Scattered across the world there should be parts of a great tome of ancient draconic knowledge on magic. The original spellbook of dragon kind; stolen by man and broken up into smaller books, copied poorly and incompletely, and scattered across the world. Dragons have never trusted man since their theft of the great book.
Magic is a prime force in fantasy. It is not something owned by any race in the mortal world; including among dragons. What is owned is the knowledge of how to access and manipulate magic. What mankind would have stolen from dragonkind was knowledge. This fits quite well into any form of mythology. In Judeo-Christian lore what did Adam and Eve steal? Knowledge of good and evil. In ancient Greek lore what did Promethius give to man without Zeus' permission? Knowledge of fire. In innumerable myths and legends what is it that man gains control of that is the cause of all his problems and trials? Knowledge.
In a fantasy world most humans don't have the intellect or force of will to truly control magic while even the most slow witted of full dragons can control magic with ease. So the humans who stole the knowledge of magic from dragons releases a chaotic and poorly understood form of magic into the world. Scattered across the world there should be parts of a great tome of ancient draconic knowledge on magic. The original spellbook of dragon kind; stolen by man and broken up into smaller books, copied poorly and incompletely, and scattered across the world. Dragons have never trusted man since their theft of the great book.
Given that if I want dragons to be the creatures of magic before all others and that they introduced magic to the world and that it fell into the hands of the irresponsible humans and other races after being stolen..... I can do that, its my world.
Placing the understanding of magic within a book that is stolen is feasible however.
Make your dragons multidimensional: they were never all on the same page. Some of them wanted to "enlighten" the lesser races and gave humans access to their magic (check Prometheus, the myth of).
Initially they gave the knowledge to a select few who they considered wise enough to deal with the intricacies of their magic without being corrupted and destroyed by it. Unfortunately they miscalculated and one of these human acolytes decided to use his newfound powers to make himself a king among men, going as far as to kill a dragon.
This prompted the majority of dragons that never agreed to help the humans to lash back causing a cataclysm of huge proportions. In the end humanity survived, even if severely reduced in numbers and dragons became rare,as most of them decided to move away/hide bringing their powerful magic away.
A few of the original acolytes survived though: a faction trying to bring back the magic of dragons for good purposes and another formed by the followers of the betrayer who wants to recover the secrets of draconic magic for evil. And then there's the matter of what became of the betrayer himself... he was defeated but not destroyed and since he used his magic to make himself basically immortal he was just contained and waits for the day he will be free once again...I like a lot of this. Some of it works well with the parts of history and world development I already have. I really like the idea of the select dragon(s) giving only a few humans magic, those they felt could use it wisely. Then things go wrong as you suggest. I like the "King Among Men" idea. Also the factions originating from the acolytes adds a dimension of power groups to the world, something which it needs.
I have a kingdom of dragons, each color has its own territory and despite alignment differences they all are led by the Council of Great Wyrms, in which each color or dragon is represented. The alignment differences that have developed cause internal strife between territories...
Adding on to this idea, you could have a few dragons who taught some humans spells in secret purely so that they could have powerful minions that they intend to use in schemes to gain power/dominance against other Draconic rivals. Possibly after the cataclysm mentioned above: they saw how powerful mortal wizards can be. All they need is a steady claw guiding them to keep their more self-destructive impulses under control.
Lots of good ideas here, I think I will be blending most of what people have posted into one epic tale.
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Even if dragons are the ones that introduce magic into the world, it is still a fundamental force in a fantasy world; unless you are creating a world were the magic flows from dragon-kind (or something similar). Of course that makes it all the more important to an elder race like dragons that this infinitely powerful force not be misused. Humans mucking about with forces they don't understand could be terrifying to an innately magical race liked dragons. Having that power come from dragons, and therefor mess with dragons when it is abused, even more so.
Perhaps the interference in, and abuse of, magic by humans could be related to why some draconic creatures; drakes, wyverns, and such; are not nearly as powerful or intelligent as full dragons. Human spellcasters have drained parts of the forces of magic, damaging some dragons or altering them irrevocably. That would really give dragons a reason to hate human spellcasters.
But what about gnome and elf spellcasters? Do dragons see them in the same way as humans? Gnomes are an innately magical race in some ways. Elves have a long tradition of magical use. But neither one have the level of innate magic as dragons.
And how would your dragons feel about sorcerers? Their magic is innate to them, not a studied and researched ability. I'm seeing so many wild possibilities in this story line.
Great stuff from a lot of great people inspiring an equally great person.
And me too, actually...
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How about creating a fantasy version of Pandora. Humans stole magic from dragons because they tricked their main agent on the planet. She is the one who gave the magic to humans. Tricked somehow. Now cursed by the dragons to wander forver because of her crime (Give the npc the Divine Guardian Template).
A significant piece of history seems to be missing in my lore. In a nut shell, dragons brought magic to the world and helped the humans and other races develop civilization. Only the dragons possessed magic (which was far beyond the Players Handbook spells) and used it to help control greater aspects of the world such as raising food, building monuments, controlling the weather, and so forth.
Then the humans got jealous and wanted magic for themselves. They acquired the magic but were not able to comprehend its difficult nature and thus the only thing they could get out of it was the paltry spells we find in our D&D games today.
The only problem is HOW did the humans steal the magic from dragons? I'm looking for ideas.
Watch the Avatar Wan episodes from The Adventures of Korra.
You could use a small, weak, picked-on dragon who decides to show the rest of his kind they aren't so great... look, humans can do magic, too! He teaches them out of spite, malice, and revenge. He's not very powerful, so only the weaker spells get to mankind.
He's a total jerk, but humans revere him because he brought them magic. He leaves dragonkind to dwell among humans as a nasty, demanding god.
It doesn't end well.
(Sorry, got carried away.)
Fooling them is traditional.
For example, the Dragon of Kraków, in real-world myth, was defeated by a clever peasant who wrapped a lot of saltpeter in a sheepskin; when the dragon ate it, it burned a hole in his stomach and killed him.
Lies! Lies and slander!
...
Though it would explain those heartburns I suffer from time to time...
There is occasional confusion of Skuba above with another legendary cobbler from Polish myths, Dratewka (a name which is petty form of dratwa - the cobbler's twine), who is a hero of another, much later folk legend, outwitting a vile witch living in the castle.
A significant piece of history seems to be missing in my lore. In a nut shell, dragons brought magic to the world and helped the humans and other races develop civilization. Only the dragons possessed magic (which was far beyond the Players Handbook spells) and used it to help control greater aspects of the world such as raising food, building monuments, controlling the weather, and so forth.
Then the humans got jealous and wanted magic for themselves. They acquired the magic but were not able to comprehend its difficult nature and thus the only thing they could get out of it was the paltry spells we find in our D&D games today.
The only problem is HOW did the humans steal the magic from dragons? I'm looking for ideas.
Draconic magic takes form of sorcery, which is borne via blood. Maybe initially the humanoids gained magic by having dragon-blooded children who grew to be sorcerers...
This would also make a certain adult-ish spin on dragons demanding virgin "sacrifices".
Later humanoids slowly reverse-engineered the spells of sorcerers by extended study of their magical powers, creating wizardry in the process. This could be combined with the tricking the magic out of the dragons theme by the late sorcerers being children of volunteers who seduced dragons deliberately to give life to magical offspring.
If draconic magic was far stronger than Core Rulebook stuff, it sounds like it was either a) mythic or b) ritual magic aka incantations. Let's roll with B.
Wizardry is a magic of the written word. Wizards have spellbooks, spend time each day forcing magic into their minds and bodies by reading through these books. Perhaps the humans saw some of these rituals and wrote down what they saw. Over time, these rituals became the foundation for wizardry.
As for sorcery, yes, your basic dragons are all sorcerers of some power. I'd go with the idea Drejk describes for that.
The first dragons perceive as theft, as they never taught rituals to the younger races; such things could move mountains, transform deserts, or create armies of servants. Not stuff you want races that are building civilizations to toy with. The versions humans and other races picked up were weaker things in the end; they could move the earth, not whole mountains, change weather but not climate, summon up a few creatures at a time but not platoons. It also explains why Draconic is a common language for wizards; they learned rituals in the mother tongue and have kept using it for every translation since.
The second part, sorcery, the dragons are irritated by, but without some truly world-spanning magic or dedicated effort can't do much about. They'd have to find every arcane caster around and put them down, and that's a lot of effort given how fast humans breed.
Other magic systems can be variations on this. Magus magic is akin to wizardry, but specific to combat. Bardic magic is a special form of sorcery, weaker and more specific. Witches...now those are a real nuisance. When some humans asked dragons about magic and the dragons said 'no', the witches came about as they asked...someone else. And got a yes. This also explains divine magic to some degree. And those divine casters that don't follow a god came from later traditions that developed.
For psychic magic, over time, some people who lacked the innate gifts for magic (sorcery) or the inclination for ritual magic (wizardry) focused on their own internal abilities in an effort to try to unlock sorcery anyway. What they got was something different.
This also explains divine magic to some degree. And those divine casters that don't follow a god came from later traditions that developed.
And this brings up another interesting direction I intended to take the world. I didn't bring it up because I wanted to hammer down the arcane magic first.
When I started putting together the world I wanted to do away with the traditional Gods yet retain divine magic. My initial thought was to have the demonic forces provide divine magic to their worshippers. For those of you not familiar with what I am speaking of....
After the dragons came to the world and helped civilizations come into being, the elves, dwarves, humans, etc. flourished. Humans eventually stole the magic from dragons and shared it with other human-like races (hence our conversation) and this eventually started a war. The humans sided with several underground races while the dragons sided with the demi-humans. Eventually the war was being lost by the humans and so they summoned demons and devils into the world to serve as allies. The demons were of little help in terms of being legitimate allies as they simply sought destruction of humans, demi-humans, underground races and dragons alike. The devils made pacts with the humans before aiding them. This turned the tide of the war in favor of the humans. The dragons suffered three primary blows to their forces (two battles and one internal sabotage) and left the war to return to their homeland and save it. With the dragons out of the war, the humans easily won. When the war ended the humans found themselves to be slaves to the devils of which became the ruling caste of the world governments as a result of the foolish pacts the humans signed.
The devils demanded worship and the arch devils (in this world) have enough power to grant divine spells. Now it seems natural that those humans (and other worshippers) that are evil could acquire divine spells from the devils....but what about the good and neutral people?
My options were....
1. All divine casters were evil.
2. Good and Neutral casters had their spells fueled by devils. The devils got a thrill out of giving mortals some power but made certain they limited it to prevent them from becoming a threat. The pacts they needed to sign to get divine power from the devils ensured the casters eventual damnation.
3. There were Gods after all in the world.
4. There were Ancient Gods in the world that are long since forgotten by most humans and demi-humans and they are slowly making a come back to the world. This greatly limits the number of good and neutral divine casters in the world.
5. Or a combination of more than one of these. At this point, I have elected to use both the devils providing some divine spells and Old gods long forgotten to the world providing some divine spells as well.
Your thoughts?
A significant piece of history seems to be missing in my lore. In a nut shell, dragons brought magic to the world and helped the humans and other races develop civilization. Only the dragons possessed magic (which was far beyond the Players Handbook spells) and used it to help control greater aspects of the world such as raising food, building monuments, controlling the weather, and so forth.
Then the humans got jealous and wanted magic for themselves. They acquired the magic but were not able to comprehend its difficult nature and thus the only thing they could get out of it was the paltry spells we find in our D&D games today.
The only problem is HOW did the humans steal the magic from dragons? I'm looking for ideas.
Draconic magic takes form of sorcery, which is borne via blood. Maybe initially the humanoids gained magic by having dragon-blooded children who grew to be sorcerers...
This would also make a certain adult-ish spin on dragons demanding virgin "sacrifices".
Later humanoids slowly reverse-engineered the spells of sorcerers by extended study of their magical powers, creating wizardry in the process. This could be combined with the tricking the magic out of the dragons theme by the late sorcerers being children of volunteers who seduced dragons deliberately to give life to magical offspring.
I think it would be wise to address Sorcerers in this world lore. Thank you for bringing it up.
You know that many Pathfinder divine classes don't derive their devine casting from Gods, right? Paladins get theirs from lawful-goodness. Druids get theirs from nature. Even clerics outside the Golarion setting can get their powers from an ideal instead of a God. You don't need to limit your divine sources to vastly powerful intelligent entities. Ideals or vague, nebulous, mysterious forces are also fair game.
Idk if I'd keep divine casters evil. Seems a bit too limiting.
I have always like the idea of gods that are distant. Maybe the gods are sleeping right now, but can still grant powers. Or the Celestial Bureaucracy prevents them from interfering. Or the gods are dead and people are just getting their powers from their husks. Lots of options there I think.
You know that many Pathfinder divine classes don't derive their devine casting from Gods, right? Paladins get theirs from lawful-goodness. Druids get theirs from nature. Even clerics outside the Golarion setting can get their powers from an ideal instead of a God. You don't need to limit your divine sources to vastly powerful intelligent entities. Ideals or vague, nebulous, mysterious forces are also fair game.
I thought I would use nature for druids as it fits the world better than gods. As for alignment concepts or ideals or purposes, goals, quests, or some other type of concept, it doesn't work for the setting at all.
If you want something a bit less nebulous that simply 'nature', have them worship the spirits of nature. Something akin to many of the animistic religions of old.
Idk if I'd keep divine casters evil. Seems a bit too limiting.
I have always like the idea of gods that are distant. Maybe the gods are sleeping right now, but can still grant powers. Or the Celestial Bureaucracy prevents them from interfering. Or the gods are dead and people are just getting their powers from their husks. Lots of options there I think.
I agree its to limiting, which is why I eliminated it as an option. There is already a lot of good aligned people having to side with the lesser of two evils in the world, such as siding with evil dragons over devils when it comes to who's on who's side of a war. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to use both devilish forces providing limited divine spells for the price of the caster's soul as well as the idea of Old Gods just starting to be remembered in isolated areas of the world.
In regards to devilish forces granting divine spells, I would like to work a way that the pact for PCs and very select NPCs allows casters to pursue divine magic, eventually legally break the pact, yet retain their powers in the long term. The devils grant the spells, the worshipper secretly thinks he will get out of selling his soul and retaining the power he has acquired and through some sort of great quest or other viable means, the PC and select NPC can achieve this. This retains the idea that a PC isn't forced to serve evil, gives the PC and select NPCs an out, limits the good neutral and good aligned casters yet still makes them reasonably available (though not as much as in a standard D&D world) yet retains the idea that the world is based on, that being that civilization and magic was derived by dragons, demonic forces of the Abyss and Hell run rampant throughout the world affecting the governments and lives of the common people.
I should also add that Dragon worship also would fit in well with the world.
If you want something a bit less nebulous that simply 'nature', have them worship the spirits of nature. Something akin to many of the animistic religions of old.
Spirits of nature would be very good for Druids. Can you give me some examples of what you have in mind?
Re: divine magic
You could limit classes to druids, rangers, and/or hunters (nature magic); oracles and shamans (spirits); inquisitors and warpriests (devils and any dragon deities/mythic dragons that can grant divine spells). No clerics.
If you really want to make arcane (dragon) magic feel special, you can limit divine casting classes to hunters, inquisitors, and warpriests (or other 6-level casting classes).
Everyone has their own version of the story.
Humans claim they tricked dragons into giving them magic. The exact trick varies a lot from region to region, but almost always makes the human (and it's almost always just one) look very clever.
Dragons, of course, claim they gave humanoids magic. The good ones thought that if removed humanoids' needs (Create Water, Create Food and Drink, CLW, etc.) that they'd stop fighting. The evil ones wanted to give them new ways to kill each other.
Dwarves claim to have earned magic through hard work and an honest (if somewhat short-sighted on the dragons' part) bargain. Some have the slightly more humble story that the dragons wanted them to do work that required magic- crafting magic items, and so on. Many dwarves worship draconic deities in a somewhat business-like fashion, advancing their agendas in exchange for divine casting.
Elves claim that with their brilliance and long lives, the various dragons of nature biewed them as kindred spirits, and decided to share magic with them to make them more like dragons. To this day, most elven casters hold a basic respect for nature above that of other elves, even if they aren't druids.
Gnomes claim to have stolen magic from the wicked linnorms. They fled the First World, and some linnorms pursued. They consider the facts that linnorms now lack magic, and that even young gnomes can perform at least a few spells to be proof. Family names and titles referencing this are common, and gnomes generally consider it their right to boast about, although starting with that is a sign of poor personal achievement; it is generally reserved as a conclusion in a list.
Halflings are the only major race that doesn't claim to have received magic from dragons. Rather, they were patient and simply traded for it from the other races, who were too proud showing off their new power to bother getting a good deal. Halflings do seem to have a sort of patchwork of leftover magic, often being oracles, sorcerers, or bards rather than wizards or clerics.
If you want something a bit less nebulous that simply 'nature', have them worship the spirits of nature. Something akin to many of the animistic religions of old.Spirits of nature would be very good for Druids. Can you give me some examples of what you have in mind?
Read a lot about shamanistic religions and old paegan religions. Shintoism is a good start honestly. Some other modern day religions include Vodou, Santeria, and the Neo Pagan movement. But some basics for this include the following:
- Personal, idiosyncrasy. animistic religions tend to be much more personal and less structured than their ecclesiastic cousins. There is still a religious leader in the group, but generally, there isn't a set scripture or set of rules. Shamans, medicine men, witch doctors, witches, and druids all exist as helpers and sages that do lead people during rituals. But ultimately, your beliefs are yours.
- Animism and Shamanism are important aspects to understand. Animism is the belief that there are spirits and souls that inhabit everything. The trees, the stones, the rivers, the animals... However, this doesn't mean that the spirits are good or friendly. Some might be mean and petty, demanding respect. That's where the shaman comes in. The shaman is an intermediary between the spirits and their spirit world, and our material world. Generally, this involves going into altered states of consciousness via hallucinogens or withholding food and water.
- Many will pray to different spirits depending on the situation. If I am going on a journey, i'll pray to the spirit of the roads and the woods to make it safe. I may pray to the spirits of brewing to make sure my beer comes out good. Things like that. That said, you can still have a tutilary spirit that watches over you, your household, or your family. Patron gods and totem spirits are good examples of this.
- Rituals are really important, just like in more ecclesiastic religions. They do take a bit more of a different shape though. Dancing and song are extremely important, not only for expressing your belief in your religion, but keeping the village together. Stories are also very important like in modern religion. Though depending on the culture, you could have everything written down or everything down orally. These stories tend to be focused a bit more on explaining nature via aitions and pourquoi fables. Though you can still have a fable or parable that focus on morality and ethics that you woudl see in later religions.
- Usage of natural effigies are important. Again, these tend to be personal to the individual or the clan/tribe. Fetishes and totems are examples of this.
Mind you, much of this is an oversimplification, but it's a good start. I have more stuff, but I have chores and work to do. I'll have to come by later.
3. There were Gods after all in the world.
4. There were Ancient Gods in the world that are long since forgotten by most humans and demi-humans and they are slowly making a come back to the world. This greatly limits the number of good and neutral divine casters in the world.
Or there could be no gods in the past. They all could be ascended beings via mastering the magic.
With this approach each dragon could be a sort of a divine being (thus explaining why their magic is so much powerful than the mortal casters), similar to various petty divine beings of Earth mythology such as dryads, nymphs, eastern dragons, Slavic serpents and wyrms, etc. When mortal spellcasters reaches the pinnacle of magical art, they can become divine too.
I was reading through these posts again. One of them made me think about magic surging through the dragon's veins. Blood also surges through the veins. How interesting of a tale could be developed if a dragon told a human that "Magic was in their blood". The human then finds a way to slay the dragon and drinks his blood. The human is now imbued with the ability of magic.
Through this one person, all of his descendants would also have magic in their blood.
Questions:
1. How did he kill the dragon without magic? I would like it to be feasible in the game to actually work that way.
2. How does he pass magic to other humans.
3. This person who drank the dragon's blood should become a world shaking NPC or monster type NPC. Any ideas?
Just bouncing this idea off of the community for better details.
I was reading through these posts again. One of them made me think about magic surging through the dragon's veins. Blood also surges through the veins. How interesting of a tale could be developed if a dragon told a human that "Magic was in their blood". The human then finds a way to slay the dragon and drinks his blood. The human is now imbued with the ability of magic.
Through this one person, all of his descendants would also have magic in their blood.
Questions:
1. How did he kill the dragon without magic? I would like it to be feasible in the game to actually work that way.2. How does he pass magic to other humans.
3. This person who drank the dragon's blood should become a world shaking NPC or monster type NPC. Any ideas?
Just bouncing this idea off of the community for better details.
in my campaign setting, draconic blood(and certain *ahem* other humors) are important because imbibing them results directly in magical power and ability, I.e becoming an adept. Some people(read:madmen) attempt to hunt down dragons for their blood, but the dragons themselves use them to reward devoted servants and make them more powerful than their peers, creating entire harems of fanatic consort-generals, minor nobles, or some other social creation to help them appear magnanimous in the face of their unending tyranny. Half dragons are universally sorcerers, the magic in their blood is omnipresent.
The idea of the power in blood and humors has inspired me to have rangers hunt down creatures to likewise harvest their humors in order to make tinctures(read: their ranger spells).