[Everyman Gaming LLC] Announcing Everyman Unchained: Fighters!


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BEYOND EVERY HORIZON, ANOTHER BATTLE!

Announced for November 2016!

Everyman Gaming LLC returns to their acclaimed Everyman Unchained series with an all-new unchained base class! Created by popular demand, the fighter finally gets his turn at the unchaining table with Everyman Unchained: Fighters!

Written by the mind behind some of the most innovative martial content, Everyman Unchained: Fighters takes many of the advances made to the fighter class in recent years and combines them together into a proper, 20-level base class complete with new class features and new options to choose from.

For more information about this upcoming release, follow this link to the Everyman Gaming website!


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PLEASE make sure that they are compatible with their normal counterparts archetypes


I'm just glad to see someone doing something for the poor old fighter. Now we just need to get Legendary Fighters from Legendary Games, and I'll be set.

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Lady-J wrote:
PLEASE make sure that they are compatible with their normal counterparts archetypes

Existing fighter archetypes will not be compatible with the Unchained fighter.

That having been said, all existing archetypes from the Core Rulebook line (from the Advanced Player's Guide to Horror Adventures) appears in the book, completely rewritten for compatibility. (This also has the side effect that a few really undesirable archetypes are much better now.)

I would like to do an EMU: Fighter Archetypes product to update fighter archetypes from other sources, like Player Companions and Campign Setting Guides and whatnot. I am also thinking about doing combat tricks for feats that don't have them, but that is tricky because I would need to reprint the entire feat in order to cite it. I need to talk with Owen about how to make something like that happen.

But ultimately, it is my hope that you will be able to use your existing characters with this product.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Shouldn't it be from the Advanced Player's Guide to Occult Adventures, since I believe neither Ultimate Intrigue nor Horror Adventures had any fighter archetypes?

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Luthorne wrote:
Shouldn't it be from the Advanced Player's Guide to Occult Adventures, since I believe neither Ultimate Intrigue nor Horror Adventures had any fighter archetypes?

You are correct, but I checked those books to make sure. Aka I am caught up to the most recent Core Rulebook releases. ;-)

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Yesterday, Everyman Gaming gave a bit of a sneak peak on the Unchained fighter. Check it out for yourself here: EverymanGaming.com.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Will Advanced Armor/Weapon Training be an explicit part of the Unchained Fighter? With the advent of weapon style feats, I'd like those to go online earlier for fighters too, but I suppose they can just take them normally.

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Luthorne wrote:
Will Advanced Armor/Weapon Training be an explicit part of the Unchained Fighter? With the advent of weapon style feats, I'd like those to go online earlier for fighters too, but I suppose they can just take them normally.

Yes. AWT AND AAT are built into the class. You get your first AWT at 5th level and your first AAT at 7th level. The feats for those abilities have also been updated and reprinted.

Dark Archive

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Everyman Gaming has not let me down yet, so I'm very much looking forward to this. Also, all their products are allowed in my games, so highly do I think of their work.

If I could, I'd love to get all their Unchained products into a single hardcover.

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JonathonWilder wrote:

Everyman Gaming has not let me down yet, so I'm very much looking forward to this. Also, all their products are allowed in my games, so highly do I think of their work.

If I could, I'd love to get all their Unchained products into a single hardcover.

There's an idea, but I'd have to unchain at least the cleric and the bard first....

Dark Archive

Alexander Augunas wrote:
JonathonWilder wrote:

Everyman Gaming has not let me down yet, so I'm very much looking forward to this. Also, all their products are allowed in my games, so highly do I think of their work.

If I could, I'd love to get all their Unchained products into a single hardcover.

There's an idea, but I'd have to unchain at least the cleric and the bard first....

Please, please, please Unchained the Cleric. Allow them to have more variety, consideration to the deity in which they worship and in how this could change not only their role in a party but in what they're able to offer.

Apart from a couple of domains Clerics are too alike, and are often not only reviled for their role as healers but many argue they're not even any good at it. The majority of archetypes for this class barely even offer anything and there is still interest in the non-combative priest variant.

I admit I happen to hold a fondness for the Specialty Priests 2e AD&D, not only in concept but often even in design.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Really, the bard? Out of curiosity, what about the bard do you think needs changing? Well, beyond free retraining when Versatile Performance kicks in...

Actually, that's an interesting question; if you don't mind me asking, what classes would you like to see unchained the most besides the ones you've already done/are doing (bloodrager, ninja, fighter, etc.)?

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Luthorne wrote:

Really, the bard? Out of curiosity, what about the bard do you think needs changing? Well, beyond free retraining when Versatile Performance kicks in...

Actually, that's an interesting question; if you don't mind me asking, what classes would you like to see unchained the most besides the ones you've already done/are doing (bloodrager, ninja, fighter, etc.)?

The bard completely lacks meaningful customization beyond spell selection, and in earnest most bards pick the same six-ish "power spells" per spell level. Versatile performance isn't a strong diversifier because most skills share at least one skill with another perform skill--some share both. The bard is also the only 3/4 BAB gish class with dead levels.

In order of severity, the cleric, the bard, and the cavalier are in the most need of unchaining. The cavalier/samurai is boring, and simply doesn't have an interesting ability set. (I like Owen's take in Talented Cavalier, where the cavalier is also the 'high society' martial class, and that is the direction I would want to go with it.

The Druid could also use some diversifying, but it is in no way near as dire as the cleric or cavalier. No other classes really come to mind as needing a proper unchaining, however. They have acceptable power levels and a chasis that gives them a unique identity and the ability to customize the class built in to its framework.


I'd love to see what you guys could do with the Cavalier.


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Alexander Augunas wrote:
Yesterday, Everyman Gaming gave a bit of a sneak peak on the Unchained fighter. Check it out for yourself here: EverymanGaming.com.

The information at the link sounds good. It sounds very good!

And dumb question, but will the new fighter also get 4 skill points per level, like they do in your 'Skills' PDF? Because I love that system so very much.


will armor master and two handed fighter be compatible?


Holy wow. I wasn't terribly enthused about this product until I read the blog post. Now it's a definite must-buy! AWT and AAT built in? Yesssssssss.

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Eric Hinkle wrote:
And dumb question, but will the new fighter also get 4 skill points per level, like they do in your 'Skills' PDF? Because I love that system so very much.

Yes. The Unchained fighter has 4 + Int skill ranks.

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El Ronza wrote:
Holy wow. I wasn't terribly enthused about this product until I read the blog post. Now it's a definite must-buy! AWT and AAT built in? Yesssssssss.

There are also about a page of new AWTs and AATs in the product that had to be cut from the Weapon Master's Handbook and the Armor Master's Handbook. ;-)

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Eric Hinkle wrote:
I'd love to see what you guys could do with the Cavalier.

It's not very high on my list to do at the moment--I haven't come up with a strong concept beyond what I said.


Q: Does this release maintain the mutual love between both STR/DEX that fighters usually have?

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Secret Wizard wrote:
Q: Does this release maintain the mutual love between both STR/DEX that fighters usually have?

It's pretty much the same as core fighter + advanced weapon trainings. There are options that help Dex fighters (like trained grace and a new Graceful Master weapon mastery feat), but I didn't mess around with ability scores too much. If anything, there are now more choices that reward you for having a good Constitution, if that is something you choose to invest in.


will they get a d12 hit die?

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Lady-J wrote:
will they get a d12 hit die?

No. That is (and should remain) a barbarian exclusive feature. While the unchained fighter does have a few "spread the love" options in which it poaches features from other classes through advanced weapon trainings, I firmly believe that it is important to "make the fighter cool" through its own merits rather than stealing everything that makes other classes cool from those classes.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This looks good. Can't wait!


what about average saves instead of poor saves

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Lady-J wrote:
what about average saves instead of poor saves

The fighter's saves are unchanged, but there are options available if you want to be better at Reflex saves or Will saves (the advanced weapon training options for those saves).

Having only one good save doesn't break the bloodrager—it won't break the unchained fighter either. Also, the concept of "fighter" is broad, and the class should be able to emulate as many "fighter" style characters as possible.

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Zaister wrote:
This looks good. Can't wait!

Thanks!


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
what about average saves instead of poor saves

The fighter's saves are unchanged, but there are options available if you want to be better at Reflex saves or Will saves (the advanced weapon training options for those saves).

Having only one good save doesn't break the bloodrager—it won't break the unchained fighter either. Also, the concept of "fighter" is broad, and the class should be able to emulate as many "fighter" style characters as possible.

i was thinking more along the lines of reflex and will neither being poor nor good saves like +9 at level 20 instead of +6 or +12 would be something unique for the fighter

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We're offering a second glimpse at the upcoming Unchained Fighter class at our blog today, including a sneak peak of two never-before-seen advanced weapon training and advanced armor training abilities.


With the extra AAT and AWT presented in this book, does this mean those new ones in the book are now excluded from being in a Paizo book?

Not that I matter so much. I'm keen to have heaps more AAT and AWT options, just interested whether new options will appear in another Player Companion in the future.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
We're offering a second glimpse at the upcoming Unchained Fighter class at our blog today, including a sneak peak of two never-before-seen advanced weapon training and advanced armor training abilities.

The more I read about this the more I am looking forward to it.

Silly question, any ideas on projected page count?


You mention that some of the bad Archetypes will be modified to be better than the originals, are there any you can name for us?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
We're offering a second glimpse at the upcoming Unchained Fighter class at our blog today, including a sneak peak of two never-before-seen advanced weapon training and advanced armor training abilities.

I really am looking forward to this one.

However -- The math and general wording for Second Wind in this blog seem to be a bit off. Starting with 1d8 at 3rd level and adding 1d8 per 2 levels, you reach 4d8 at 9th level, not 11th. And having information about the maximum dice at 11th level and maximum added points at 20th level makes a slightly confusing read.


It looks like this is mainly combat buffs.... Is there anything that increases their non-combat skills other than just non-ridiculous skill points per level?

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Eric Hinkle wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
We're offering a second glimpse at the upcoming Unchained Fighter class at our blog today, including a sneak peak of two never-before-seen advanced weapon training and advanced armor training abilities.

The more I read about this the more I am looking forward to it.

Silly question, any ideas on projected page count?

About 38 pages of content, plus cover, intro spread, and OGL.

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Magus Black wrote:
You mention that some of the bad Archetypes will be modified to be better than the originals, are there any you can name for us?

Sure.

The APG has a bunch of archetypes that aren't bad, but suffered terribly when the Weapon Masters Handbook was released, simply because they lost the ability to pick AWTs.

In EMU: Fighters, most of those archetypes keep at least the 5th level AWT, meaning that they get at least one AWT and qualify for the feat option for more AWTs.

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David knott 242 wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
We're offering a second glimpse at the upcoming Unchained Fighter class at our blog today, including a sneak peak of two never-before-seen advanced weapon training and advanced armor training abilities.

I really am looking forward to this one.

However -- The math and general wording for Second Wind in this blog seem to be a bit off. Starting with 1d8 at 3rd level and adding 1d8 per 2 levels, you reach 4d8 at 9th level, not 11th. And having information about the maximum dice at 11th level and maximum added points at 20th level makes a slightly confusing read.

It's designed along the lines and accessibility of the false life spells. I'm actually planning on downtuning second wind a bit to fit that role a bit more, but know that it is an ability that I am actively tinkering with now after hearing feedback.

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Milo v3 wrote:
It looks like this is mainly combat buffs.... Is there anything that increases their non-combat skills other than just non-ridiculous skill points per level?

Yes and no.

There are some nice quality-of-life out of combat AAATs and AWTs, but I believe that a class called the "fighter" should be largely focused on fighting. When you look at most classes like the ranger or slayer, most of those classes just have skills and small bonuses to certain "out of combat skills," like favored terrain or social grace. The rogue is the only one who has other stuff, namely rogue's edges and trapfonding, and I am not a fan of poaching stuff from the Unchained rogue.

I have some sketches for a sequel to the Unchained Fighter that feature "heightened skills," where a fighter with heightened perception would gain things like low light vision and scent--stuff like that. But I am still working on the heightened skills, and they won't be in this book.

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David knott 242 wrote:

I really am looking forward to this one.

However -- The math and general wording for Second Wind in this blog seem to be a bit off. Starting with 1d8 at 3rd level and adding 1d8 per 2 levels, you reach 4d8 at 9th level, not 11th. And having information about the maximum dice at 11th level and maximum added points at 20th level makes a slightly confusing read.

After a bit of math and a bit of messing around, this is likely what second wind will look like now:

Quote:

Second Wind (Ex): At 3rd level, a fighter can tap into his stamina in order to temporarily regain vitality. By spending 4 stamina points from his stamina pool as a swift action, the fighter gains a number of temporary hit points equal to 1d10 + 1 point per fighter level (maximum +10), up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to the current amount of hit point damage that he has taken. This effect lasts 1 minute. Temporary hit points gained from multiple uses of this ability don’t stack, and if the number of temporary hit points that the fighter has from this ability ever exceeds the amount of lethal damage that he has taken, excess temporary hit points are lost. For instance, a fighter that has taken 20 points of damage can gain up to 20 temporary hit points from this ability. If he is later healed for 15 points of damage, the maximum number of temporary hit points that he can gain is reduced to 5, and any temporary hit points in excess of this amount are lost.

At 11th level, the fighter can use this ability as an immediate action. In addition, he can spend 6 stamina points to gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 2d10 + 1 point per fighter level (maximum +20). At 19th level, he can use this ability as a free action once per round, even if it isn’t his turn.

Couple of notes for the changes:

— The intention was always to make the ability work comparably to false life, so the decision was made to make the temporary hit point gains scale like false life (and for the 11th level improvement, greater false life).

— The ability has been streamlined so it improves every 8 levels, instead of having the "die increases" as you go.

— The number of stamina points needed has gone up to reflect the cost of the Deathless Master feat's combat trick. (Which is spend 2 stamina points to get 2 temporary hit points when you're below 0 hp.) This makes Deathless Master into a low-cost low-efficiency sort of temporary hit points, and second wind into a high-cost high-efficiency source of temporary hit points. (And technically, they stack.)

I'm interested in seeing what people think of the change.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

I really am looking forward to this one.

However -- The math and general wording for Second Wind in this blog seem to be a bit off. Starting with 1d8 at 3rd level and adding 1d8 per 2 levels, you reach 4d8 at 9th level, not 11th. And having information about the maximum dice at 11th level and maximum added points at 20th level makes a slightly confusing read.

After a bit of math and a bit of messing around, this is likely what second wind will look like now:

Quote:

Second Wind (Ex): At 3rd level, a fighter can tap into his stamina in order to temporarily regain vitality. By spending 4 stamina points from his stamina pool as a swift action, the fighter gains a number of temporary hit points equal to 1d10 + 1 point per fighter level (maximum +10), up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to the current amount of hit point damage that he has taken. This effect lasts 1 minute. Temporary hit points gained from multiple uses of this ability don’t stack, and if the number of temporary hit points that the fighter has from this ability ever exceeds the amount of lethal damage that he has taken, excess temporary hit points are lost. For instance, a fighter that has taken 20 points of damage can gain up to 20 temporary hit points from this ability. If he is later healed for 15 points of damage, the maximum number of temporary hit points that he can gain is reduced to 5, and any temporary hit points in excess of this amount are lost.

At 11th level, the fighter can use this ability as an immediate action. In addition, he can spend 6 stamina points to gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 2d10 + 1 point per fighter level (maximum +20). At 19th level, he can use this ability as a free action once per round, even if it isn’t his turn.

Couple of notes for the changes:

— The intention was always to make the ability work comparably to false life, so the decision was made to make the temporary hit point gains scale like false life (and for the...

I would say that scaling like false life is quite underwhelming, givin that wizards are just looking for a small buffer while the fighter is in close with foes that can easily outdamage second winds Per Hit, let alone on a full attack. It is also quite costly, so even if it kept up with incoming damage you can still only use it for a couple of rounds, less if you also spend stamina on combat bonuses. As it is the best option for surviving remains going for combat bonuses and killing enemies faster.

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RogueMortal wrote:
I would say that scaling like false life is quite underwhelming, givin that wizards are just looking for a small buffer while the fighter is in close with foes that can easily outdamage second winds Per Hit, let alone on a full attack. It is also quite costly, so even if it kept up with incoming damage you can still only use it for a couple of rounds, less if you also spend stamina on combat bonuses. As it is the best option for surviving remains going for combat bonuses and killing enemies faster.

I see your point, but I also raise that it is a swift action ability, meaning its the equivalent of a quickened false life spell.

Also, second wind is a baseline class feature—you don't have to go for it.


Alexander Augunas wrote:


Yes and no.

There are some nice quality-of-life out of combat AAATs and AWTs, but I believe that a class called the "fighter" should be largely focused on fighting.

So tier 4 at best, eh.

Silver Crusade

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Milo v3 wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:


Yes and no.

There are some nice quality-of-life out of combat AAATs and AWTs, but I believe that a class called the "fighter" should be largely focused on fighting.

So tier 4 at best, eh.

Tier 4 for an entirely unmagical class isn't bad at all. Unless you're going full TOB/POW, it's probably the ceiling for things like this.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Also, second wind is a baseline class feature—you don't have to go for it.

True, but then you're back to the old fighter hoping the cleric heals them.

N. Jolly wrote:
Tier 4 for an entirely unmagical class isn't bad at all. Unless you're going full TOB/POW, it's probably the ceiling for things like this.

Does it though? Why does 'not magical' have to mean 'hopelessly mundane'? Fighters can absolutely have Ex abilities without being magical at all, there's no reason to limit them to T4.

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RogueMortal wrote:
Does it though? Why does 'not magical' have to mean 'hopelessly mundane'? Fighters can absolutely have Ex abilities without being magical at all, there's no reason to limit them to T4.

To be quite honest, I don't particularly care for the Tier system. Its a biased metric that favors ability to "solve problems" over everything else that characters do in our game. Because of how it functions, you basically can't be Tier 1 without being a prepared spellcaster, when prepared spellcasters have plenty of downsides and weaknesses that balance them against fighters, rogues, et all from a design perspective.


shouldn't second wind be actual healing with any over healing as temp hitpoints to the cap of temp hitpoints?

Silver Crusade

RogueMortal wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Tier 4 for an entirely unmagical class isn't bad at all. Unless you're going full TOB/POW, it's probably the ceiling for things like this.
Does it though? Why does 'not magical' have to mean 'hopelessly mundane'? Fighters can absolutely have Ex abilities without being magical at all, there's no reason to limit them to T4.

I think T4 is underestimated. While I love T3, I'm completely fine with T4 martials, and I think it's an under appreciate spot in design. Sure, I love me some TOB (I have a ton of home brew for it), but I don't think T4 martials like Barb, Paladin, Ranger, or Vigilante are bad. My ideal group would be T3/T4 since that's my fave place to play.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
To be quite honest, I don't particularly care for the Tier system. Its a biased metric that favors ability to "solve problems" over everything else that characters do in our game. Because of how it functions, you basically can't be Tier 1 without being a prepared spellcaster, when prepared spellcasters have plenty of downsides and weaknesses that balance them against fighters, rogues, et all from a design perspective.

I like it as a guideline, which is what it was intended to be. It gives a vague concept in design, something you can use as a metric as opposed to direct class design. I can design something like the kinetic shinobi, look at what is listed for T4's description and say "Okay, I'm close to that, that's where I'd like this class" rather than comparing it to another class directly.

I don't treat it as law, but as a design tool, I find it helpful to gauge power levels. I can recognize that it doesn't work for everyone though; I like it for being able to describe a general power level for classes and concepts though.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmm, might there be a feat, magic item, or other option that allows you to potentially boost how many temporary hit points second wind gives you, makes it actual healing, and/or potentially even lets you remove, reduce, or temporarily ignore some conditions? Imagining things like the mask misery mesmerist trick or the placebo effect spell for the temporarily ignoring a condition bit. Though I guess actual healing is potentially problematic unless you institute uses per day, given stamina regenerates potentially infinitely...maybe 3 + Constitution times per day?

Just a thought.

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