[Everyman Gaming LLC] Announcing Everyman Unchained: Fighters!


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miscdebris wrote:
Does that work with boundless stamina? Does Martial Spontaneity and other fighter options count as Combat Tricks?

Only if the option refers to itself as a combat trick. For example, the ability to spend stamina points to gain a competence bonus on attack rolls is a combat trick because weapon training says it is. Martial spontaneity is not because it never mentions it being a combat trick.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
miscdebris wrote:
Does that work with boundless stamina? Does Martial Spontaneity and other fighter options count as Combat Tricks?
Only if the option refers to itself as a combat trick. For example, the ability to spend stamina points to gain a competence bonus on attack rolls is a combat trick because weapon training says it is. Martial spontaneity is not because it never mentions it being a combat trick.

That's what I thought, but I was hopeful. Still, it seems ok, balance wise.


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Alexander Augunas wrote:
I generally think that the weapon proficiency system we use in Pathfinder is an archaic, unfun system that front loads proficiencies far too much and generally makes further specializing with more weapons a chore. Making an unchained weapon proficiency system is something on my peripheral, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

How would you do it?

I like how Kirth did it, in that everyone is proficient in basic versions of weapons, but higher proficiency gives better stats to same weapons.

I.e. somebody with simple weapon proficiency can use a spear as a two handed weapon 1d8/x3. Someone with martial proficiency can use it one handed and thrown 1d8/x3, and someone with exotic w.proficiency can use it as one-handed, thrown and brace weapon 1d8/x3 or two handed 1d12/x3.

I don't know what you had in mind, but would definitely like something like Kirth's idea converted to pure PF.

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necromental wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
I generally think that the weapon proficiency system we use in Pathfinder is an archaic, unfun system that front loads proficiencies far too much and generally makes further specializing with more weapons a chore. Making an unchained weapon proficiency system is something on my peripheral, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

How would you do it?

I like how Kirth did it, in that everyone is proficient in basic versions of weapons, but higher proficiency gives better stats to same weapons.

I.e. somebody with simple weapon proficiency can use a spear as a two handed weapon 1d8/x3. Someone with martial proficiency can use it one handed and thrown 1d8/x3, and someone with exotic w.proficiency can use it as one-handed, thrown and brace weapon 1d8/x3 or two handed 1d12/x3.

I don't know what you had in mind, but would definitely like something like Kirth's idea converted to pure PF.

I haven't thought about it enough to really give a good answer, truthfully. Part of me would like if it were a point-based system, as I've always thought that fighters should have the most weapon proficiencies in the same way that rogues have the most skills or barbarians have the largest hit dice.


Was Warrior Spirit intended to be different than the one from WMH?

Specifically, it doesn't seem to allow swapping of enhancement bonus for utilities like the WMH does.

WMH allowed (fighter training bonus) enhancement points that you could spend on either enhancements or weapon abilities.

EMUF allowes either + (fighter training bonus) as an enhancement bonus, or a single weapon special ability, up to (fighter training bonus) in cost.

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miscdebris wrote:

Was Warrior Spirit intended to be different than the one from WMH?

Specifically, it doesn't seem to allow swapping of enhancement bonus for utilities like the WMH does.

WMH allowed (fighter training bonus) enhancement points that you could spend on either enhancements or weapon abilities.

EMUF allowes either + (fighter training bonus) as an enhancement bonus, or a single weapon special ability, up to (fighter training bonus) in cost.

The original WMH was from Magic Tactics Toolbox.

Yes, the new one was intended to be different.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
miscdebris wrote:

Was Warrior Spirit intended to be different than the one from WMH?

Specifically, it doesn't seem to allow swapping of enhancement bonus for utilities like the WMH does.

WMH allowed (fighter training bonus) enhancement points that you could spend on either enhancements or weapon abilities.

EMUF allowes either + (fighter training bonus) as an enhancement bonus, or a single weapon special ability, up to (fighter training bonus) in cost.

The original WMH was from Magic Tactics Toolbox.

Thanks for the correction.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Yes, the new one was intended to be different.

Crap. Ohh well. It's still good.


Was Freehand Training meant to add the whole fighter level to damage?

1d4 + 5 weapon + 9 cha + 4 weapon training + 1 point blank + 8 deadly aim + 6 startoss style + 12 Freehand Training = 1d4 + 45

At level 12 with a +1 starknife, warrior spirit, point blank shot, deadly aim, 3 startoss feats, and Freehand training.

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miscdebris wrote:

Was Freehand Training meant to add the whole fighter level to damage?

1d4 + 5 weapon + 9 cha + 4 weapon training + 1 point blank + 8 deadly aim + 6 startoss style + 12 Freehand Training = 1d4 + 45

At level 12 with a +1 starknife, warrior spirit, point blank shot, deadly aim, 3 startoss feats, and Freehand training.

Yes, it works like the swashbuckler's precise strike deed.


Wow, ok then. That's a lot of pain there. Thanks for getting back to me.

Keep up the good work, here or in the grad program. :)


A quick question or two about the Dragoon archetype.

Is it intended that the unchained Dragoon archetype version uses the base weapon training progression to determine the bonuses for attack and damage with the polearm weapon group? The original version of the Dragoon in Ultimate Combat had a higher attack and damage progression, but I imagine that was because they were solely restricted to polearms. In the unchained version, I don't see a clause (similar to the one in the Polearm Master and the Weapon Master) prohibiting the Dragoon fighter from taking the expanded weapon training as one of his advanced weapon training options so it seems like they can gain additional weapon groups if they wish to eventually obtain that option.

I am assuming that with the Spinning Lance ability, switching between attacking with the head of the lance and the butt of the lance does not take an action (i.e., not an action to change grip) and doesn't incur any penalties (similar to Two-Weapon Fighting).

I find it a bit of a shame that the remaining abilities of the Dragoon archetype is still useful only with a lance, and not expanded to function with any weapon in the polearms weapon group. Instead of using the base lance, I was kind of hoping to build a Dragoon fighter that could a different polearm weapon.

(Quick error I found on page 31, in the Sweeping Fend ability of the Polearm Master; the sentence "Additionally, if the polearm master treats all polearms..." should be changed to "Additionally, the polearm master treats all polearms...")

Finally, about the Two-Handed Fighter: from the Two-Handed Training class feature, is it intended for the sentence "When determining if he gains a benefit from a fighter class feature, a two-handed fighter only counts as wielding a weapon from his chosen group if he wields that weapon in two hands" to include the bonus combat feats that the unchained fighter gains via his Bonus Feats class feature?

If so, that means he can only ever use his bonus combat feats (regardless of what they do specifically) when he is wielding a weapon from his chosen weapon group with both hands at the time. I think I am probably taking that sentence in the description of Two-Handed Training from the Two-Handed Fighter archetype way too literally, though.

That's it from me at this time.

I like the Unchained Fighter. It helps with providing players with more diverse and fun options when playing a fighter, and provides additional incentives to actually play a character with more than just 4 levels of fighter.

Cheers!

CB out.


I just realised that the polearms weapon group does not have the lance included in it so the Dragoon doesn't get to add his weapon training bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls with a lance since it is not a weapon included in his starting chosen weapon group. The original version of the Dragoon archetype in Ultimate Combat has the weapon training with the spears weapon group instead. I guess this is just an error of copy-and-paste here (probably from the Polearm Master)?

Cheers!

CB out.

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Canadian Bakka wrote:
Is it intended that the unchained Dragoon archetype version uses the base weapon training progression to determine the bonuses for attack and damage with the polearm weapon group? The original version of the Dragoon in Ultimate Combat had a higher attack and damage progression, but I imagine that was because they were solely restricted to polearms. In the unchained version, I don't see a clause (similar to the one in the Polearm Master and the Weapon Master) prohibiting the Dragoon fighter from taking the expanded weapon training as one of his advanced weapon training options so it seems like they can gain additional weapon groups if they wish to eventually obtain that option.

You are correct on all accounts. The unchained dragon makes you take the polearm group (instead of the spear group) at 1st level, but there's nothing stopping you from using a AWT to pick up new groups later if you want. I actually rewrote the archetype like that because I didn't feel that giving a better bonus on damage rolls for specializing was appropriate. None of the other weapon group specialist archetypes in Pathfinder do that, and spears is a perfectly fine weapon group.

Quote:
I am assuming that with the Spinning Lance ability, switching between attacking with the head of the lance and the butt of the lance does not take an action (i.e., not an action to change grip) and doesn't incur any penalties (similar to Two-Weapon Fighting).

Think of it like making the weapon into a S or B weapon. You can always strike with the "club end" if you want to, so its more like attacking in an improvised way.

Quote:
I find it a bit of a shame that the remaining abilities of the Dragoon archetype is still useful only with a lance, and not expanded to function with any weapon in the polearms weapon group. Instead of using the base lance, I was kind of hoping to build a Dragoon fighter that could a different polearm weapon.

It looks like that problem only affects the spinning lance ability. This should fix the problem:

Spinning Lance (Ex):
Spinning Lance (Ex): At 7th level, whenever the dragoon wields a piercing reach weapon from the polearm or spear fighter weapon group, he may alternate attacks with the piercing head of his lance (with reach), or with the butt end (treat as a club) against adjacent targets. Unlike a double weapon, the masterwork quality and magical special abilities apply to both ends of weapon lance, except for those weapon special abilities that apply only to edged weapons.

This ability replaces the advanced armor training option gained at 7th level.

Finally, about the Two-Handed Fighter: from the Two-Handed Training class feature, is it intended for the sentence "When determining if he gains a benefit from a fighter class feature, a two-handed fighter only counts as wielding a weapon from his chosen group if he wields that weapon in two hands" to include the bonus combat feats that the unchained fighter gains via his Bonus Feats class feature?

If so, that means he can only ever use his bonus combat feats (regardless of what they do specifically) when he is wielding a weapon from his chosen weapon group with both hands at the time. I think I am probably taking that sentence in the description of Two-Handed Training from the Two-Handed Fighter archetype way too literally, though.

I would say no, but its up to your GM. Since you're a Two-Handed Fighter getting bonus combat feats, I think its reasonable for your GM to interpret it that way if your GM decides that is what is best for her campaign.


Found a copy-and-paste error on page 13, under the Rapid Martial Spontaneity fighter training option. It refers to both the Greater Martial Spontaneity fighter training option and the True Martial Spontaneity fighter training option as advanced weapon training options.

Just thought I'd let you know in case there is still enough time before the print option for this product.

Cheers!

CB out.

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