Blood Arcanist & Esoteric Dragon Bloodline


Rules Questions


Are Arcana Psychic Spells added to an Esoteric Dragon bloodline Blood Arcanist's spell book, or are they always prepared like for a sorcerer?


Bloodline:
A blood arcanist selects one bloodline from those available through the sorcerer bloodline class feature. The blood arcanist gains the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers of that bloodline, treating her arcanist level as her sorcerer level. The blood arcanist does not gain the class skill, bonus feats, or bonus spells from her bloodline.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I thought I would have a clear answer to this after just a little searching. Over an hour later and I'm still no closer.

In theory, this should work exactly as it would for a Arcane Bloodline Blood Arcanist, something that could exist for as long as arcanists did. And yet, I couldn't find anything on that, either.

So... I'm drawing a blank.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
CalethosVB wrote:

Bloodline:

A blood arcanist selects one bloodline from those available through the sorcerer bloodline class feature. The blood arcanist gains the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers of that bloodline, treating her arcanist level as her sorcerer level. The blood arcanist does not gain the class skill, bonus feats, or bonus spells from her bloodline.

I'm not sure this applies, since the intention is clearly for the bloodline spells, not simply actual bloodline arcana or bloodline powers.


Because I can't link the jump, I'll have to simply link to the whole page and let you decide for yourself. This link comes from the Pathfinder Reference Document, located here at Paizo.com.

Regardless of intent, these are the rules as written.


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CalethosVB wrote:

Bloodline:

A blood arcanist selects one bloodline from those available through the sorcerer bloodline class feature. The blood arcanist gains the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers of that bloodline, treating her arcanist level as her sorcerer level. The blood arcanist does not gain the class skill, bonus feats, or bonus spells from her bloodline.
Variant Bloodline Arcana wrote:
When selecting spells known, you can choose spells from the psychic class spell list.

They are not the class skill, bonus feats, or bonus spells of the bloodline; the psychic spells are alternative options for selected spells known, granted by the Bloodline Arcana class feature.


Deadbeat Doom wrote:

They are not the class skill, bonus feats, or bonus spells of the bloodline; the psychic spells are alternative options for selected spells known, granted by the Bloodline Arcana class feature.

As pointed out yourself, that applies to selecting spells known only. Since the Arcanist does not select spells known, I would argue that they do not have the opportunity to select from the psychic class spell list.

The closest reference to spells known that the arcanist has is this:

PRD wrote:
Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster instead affect the number of spells an arcanist can prepare.

Unfortunately, that only applies to modifying the number of spells known. The Arcanist does not get to draw from the psychic spell list using this Arcana.


I don't think it would be much of a stretch to say that, RaI, the Arcanist would be able to choose from the Psychic spells when picking the two spells they learn every level; but I acknowledge that strictly by RaW, you are correct.


I had to go look up the esoteric dragon variant bloodline. I think I understand what the question was about and I'm sorry to have put my foot firmly in my mouth on it.

I would say it is murky. Both the Wizard and the Arcanist have a line in their "Spells" ability description saying they may know any number of spells, yet this particular Arcana says they may only know a short number of Psychic spells.

If I we're to have to male a ruling on it myself, I'd say you could write in your spellbook as many Psychic-class spells as you would be allowed to know through this Arcana by class level.

At levels 1-3 you could write in a total of 1 Psychic spell. Then at level 4 you have the opportunity to write in a second Psychic spell into your spellbook, and so on.

Silver Crusade

Sorry to necro this, but since the question is unresolved, I thought raise thread to be better than reincarnate topic.

So... Reading the arcanist closely, I came upon this line: An arcanist may know any number of spells, but the number she can prepare each day is limited.
This is the only place where arcanist spells known are mentioned. The class description then explains about the spell book, and how the arcanist may select two spells to add to his spell book at each level.

Since the arcanist "learns" spells when adding them to his spell book, I suppose the spells in his spell book are his "spells known".

Therefore, I'd say the esoteric dragon bloodline allows the arcanist to add 1 to 9 (depending on character level) psychic spells to his spell book, either by selecting them at level up, or by finding scrolls made by psychics to copy those spells.

Would this be an adequate solution?

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