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According to the guide to Organised Play
including death, gained during an adventure must be
resolved before the end of the session. A condition in this
context includes an affliction, a negative effect, or an effect
that is intended to mechanically affect your character in
a negative way. If such a condition isn’t resolved by the
end of play, the character should be reported as dead and
becomes unplayable. However, a few conditions need
not be resolved by the end of play, including permanent
negative levels, ability drain that does not reduce an
ability score to 0, becoming a fallen member of a class
that requires an atonement spell to regain class features
or spellcasting abilities, and conditions that impose no
mechanical effect.
Is this list intended to be comprehensive or just provide examples of the kinds of things that don't need to be immediately removed? RAW, this seems to suggest if my character is affected by a Blindness/Deafness spell and becomes Deaf, or my Fighter is afflicted by a Bestow Curse that gives him -6 Charisma that character should be reported as dead if I don't remove it by the end of the game (which seems just a little silly).
The specific interaction I'm interested in (as well as clarification on the intent in general) is Baleful Polymorph. If I'm Baleful Polymorphed and fail my Fortitude but not Will saves should my character be reported as dead?
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Baleful Polymorph is absolutely designed to affect you negatively, even if you don't think it does. You must clear the condition by the end of the scenario.So Bestow Curse and Blindness/Deafness also kills PCs?
No, the player not removing those conditions kills the character.
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what use is a blind pathfinder? - you need to resolve the condition before the end of the session, or else you are removed from society play (marked as dead)
You've picked by far the worst of the three things I listed to pick on. Blind, maybe (even though PCs could have access to Blindsense), but should Bestow Curse really be removing characters from play?
No, the player not removing those conditions kills the character.
These are spells that could be easily present in a 1-5, before characters can reasonably be expected to have buckets of Prestige to spend. If I'm in a settlement of <5000 people and/or roll poorly on the caster level checks for these spells I can just die to Deafness?
This seems utterly absurd. Why is Oracle a playable class if this is PFS's stance on minor afflictions? Deaf curse Oracles and other PCs afflicted by the Deafness spell are under almost identical effects, yet one of these things gets me reported as dead and the other is perfectly fine.
Blindness and deafness are interesting in home games, sure. In organised play no, they aren't. The nature of the organised play campaign requires agents who are able to work with others and function as a four to six person team without hindering them.
In a home game having some difficulties arise because you were blinded by Grabthar the evil cleric is fun, and your partymates had a chance to prevent it (hopefully). In PFS, it sucks because my character wasn't there to see you get blinded, I didn't get to try to prevent it, and you being affected could seriously affect me.
Dispel magic costs 30× caster level, at most it's 360 gp to guarantee it's fixed.
Dispel magic can be used on any ongoing spell that affects a creature, i.e. anything with a duration longer than instantaneous.
Remove blindness/deafness only fixes blindness/deafness, in return it automatically succeeds at that, imstead of requiring a caster check. Break enchantment will affect multiple people who have been blinded or cursed or whatever.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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These are spells that could be easily present in a 1-5, before characters can reasonably be expected to have buckets of Prestige to spend. If I'm in a settlement of <5000 people and/or roll poorly on the caster level checks for these spells I can just die to Deafness?
You are free to travel anywhere (like back to absalom) after you finish your mission.
Hypothetically it could happen, but I've been running/playing PFS for 8 years and I've never seen anyone unable to remove any condition (except actual death) as a reason to mark a character as dead.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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It is still silly to say that a deaf person dies at the end of the day. Or baleful polymorphed to a bird or something but still have your mind makes you dead.
The character doesn't actually die, it's just marked as unplayable and the only way to do that in the database is to report it as dead.
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Hypothetically it could happen, but I've been running/playing PFS for 8 years and I've never seen anyone unable to remove any condition (except actual death) as a reason to mark a character as dead.
Sure it's easy enough to fix, but why should I be forced to fix a condition that has essentially no effect on me or in fringe cases is actually beneficial?
A deaf curse oracle suffers from the exact same mechanical penalties (and is just as much of a hindrance to cooperation) as a deaf fighter, but one of these characters "dies" at the end of the adventure.
Well yeah, but the session doesn't specifically end once the last encounter is finished. If you have a caster who knows how to remove the effect, have them cast it until they succeed. Maybe it takes a week in game, doesn't matter. If you're really attached to that character, pay the gold to remove it. Even in the unlikely event you get blinded in a tier 1 scenario you'll get enough for completing the mission to pay for it.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Then it is time to update the database cause that is a pretty bad system to have it listed as dead. So because the character was still deaf at the end of the session, it is now gone forever.
In organised play you most likely have a different GM any time you play, so you need to resolve things at the table with your current GM.
It is very easy to remove a condition, so not doing this is the player's choice.
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If you're really attached to that character, pay the gold to remove it. Even in the unlikely event you get blinded in a tier 1 scenario you'll get enough for completing the mission to pay for it.
If you're out of gold (maybe because you didn't complete the mission), your table can contribute to clear it. If your party members who risked the same effect aren't willing to pay to keep your character in the game .. I don't know what to tell you.
Hypothetically it could happen, but I've been running/playing PFS for 8 years and I've never seen anyone unable to remove any condition (except actual death) as a reason to mark a character as dead.Sure it's easy enough to fix, but why should I be forced to fix a condition that has essentially no effect on me or in fringe cases is actually beneficial?
A deaf curse oracle suffers from the exact same mechanical penalties (and is just as much of a hindrance to cooperation) as a deaf fighter, but one of these characters "dies" at the end of the adventure.
Depending on level, an Oracle surpasses whatever disability they might have had. They also get class stuff to make up for it. The deaf Fighter does not.
I'll assume you mean polymorphed when you say "no effect or beneficial". Sorry, it's a baleful polymorph, as in it's bad period. You are now an animal, you can't speak, any competent caster would pick a useless form for combat. How is this going to be beneficial to you?
If you're really attached to that character, pay the gold to remove it. Even in the unlikely event you get blinded in a tier 1 scenario you'll get enough for completing the mission to pay for it.If you're out of gold (maybe because you didn't complete the mission), your table can contribute to clear it. If your party members aren't willing to pay to keep your character in the game .. I don't know what to tell you.
The minimum to fix blindness/deafness is 360 gp. I seriously doubt any tier 1-2 has that spell used by an opponent, and after that tier it's just a prestige point to fix.
The reason the hole isn't being fenced off is because it's there for a reason. Get blinded/deafened/cursed and don't clear it and you're as good as dead for future missions, so that character is no longer able to participate. Golarion doesn't have a disability protections act apparently.
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Well, I just saw a good reason not to play Pathfinder Society. Just say no to playing with the weird stuff that can actually make a character more interesting to play with in the end. I guess a good way to kill an NPC is to cast blindness on them and just wait for the session to end. Surely, nobody can survive being blind or deaf. These must be death effects.
You're not dead but you are moved to a desk job, which means not going on field assignments, same as a cop or a soldier or someone with a similarly dangerous career.
But the scenarios are field assignments. So if you can't go on those you can't really go on the campaign.
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I'll assume you mean polymorphed when you say "no effect or beneficial". Sorry, it's a baleful polymorph, as in it's bad period. You are now an animal, you can't speak, any competent caster would pick a useless form for combat. How is this going to be beneficial to you?
Because I have a +6 Size bonus to Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus? Being unable to speak doesn't prevent Psychic spell casting, it doesn't prevent Kineticist abilities and it doesn't stop SLAs (such as a Summoner's Summon Monster).
I don't think the list of tiny animals really has that much difference in terms of combat effectiveness, but there's no reason a party member couldn't cast Baleful Polymorph on me.
So now the mission's over and you're a Small cat. You can't speak, so the social missions are out. You can cast psychic spells or toss kineticist bolts, but so can the non-polymorphed characters, and they can speak to npcs and plan with their team members. Maybe the Venture-Captain will keep you as a pet?
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So now the mission's over and you're a Small cat. You can't speak, so the social missions are out. You can cast psychic spells or toss kineticist bolts, but so can the non-polymorphed characters, and they can speak to npcs and plan with their team members. Maybe the Venture-Captain will keep you as a pet?
I can still read and write and I have the ability to cast telepathic bond a reasonably large number of times per day. My communication is hampered but it's far from impossible.
Alternatively,
So now the mission's over and you're still a deaf Oracle. You can't hear, so the social missions are out. You can cast divine spells or attack with your 3/4 BAB, but so can the non-deaf characters, and they can speak to npcs and plan with their team members. Maybe the Venture-Captain will keep you as a pet?
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I'll assume you mean polymorphed when you say "no effect or beneficial". Sorry, it's a baleful polymorph, as in it's bad period. You are now an animal, you can't speak, any competent caster would pick a useless form for combat. How is this going to be beneficial to you?Because I have a +6 Size bonus to Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus? Being unable to speak doesn't prevent Psychic spell casting, it doesn't prevent Kineticist abilities and it doesn't stop SLAs (such as a Summoner's Summon Monster).
I don't think the list of tiny animals really has that much difference in terms of combat effectiveness, but there's no reason a party member couldn't cast Baleful Polymorph on me.
In the particular case of baleful polymorph the ruling is in place to prevent a few edge-casers from exploiting it for purposes that might reduce the enjoyment of other players. You've pointed out that for some builds being baleful polymorphed might actually be an advantage.
Many of the PFS-specific rulings are because some very smart person has come up with a way to make an effect do something it was not intended to do. Which can result in a more powerful character and a less difficult challenge than the writers and developers intended. Since PFS strives for a comparable play experience in every running, GMs are not allowed to up the challenges to meet increased player power.
You are right that in many cases the polymorph wouldn't have much mechanical impact. Possibly even a slightly negative impact. But a blanket rule stops all those edge cases.