Heroism cleric


Advice

Scarab Sages

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So, I had an idea for a character, but it's basically only a bare-bones idea. After tooling around the archives of nethys for a while, I noticed the heroism subdomain, and it's really good. Add heroism and greater heroism to your domain spells, and you can start handing out AoE heroisms for rounds at a time, great stuff. So I thought about making a heroism cleric. A dude (or dudette) obsessed with heroes, and inspiring others to be heroes.

So far I'm thinking an ecclesiastathurge cleric, so I can memorize heroism multiple times a day, plus still channel energy, heal, that sort of thing.

Thing is, that's about all I've got, and I don't really know how I can contribute more to a party other than healing and heroism. I'm not going to be a great caster because wisdom takes a back seat to charisma, and I can't wear armor, so fighting is kinda out.

Any suggestions?


You could go evangelist... you would gain inspire courage but sadly would lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure. Add that to heroism and you are putting out some solid buffs. Honestly at 8th level you could use aura of heroism...which is pretty nice. If you really need to cast more greater heroism...you could pick up a pearl of power...but at like 36000 it is a bit steep.

Also why the need for cha? If it is for more channels I would tone it back...channel healing is nice in the begining but then it kinda loses its luster. I would keep it under 14 if you want more maybe go for the feat


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Grab flag bearer feat and fight with a long spear and then grab a banner of the ancient kings all of the buffs

Scarab Sages

Declindgrunt wrote:
Grab flag bearer feat and fight with a long spear and then grab a banner of the ancient kings all of the buffs

aren't those all morale buffs? Wouldn't they NOT STACK?


ekibus wrote:
You could go evangelist... you would gain inspire courage but sadly would lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure. Add that to heroism and you are putting out some solid buffs. Honestly at 8th level you could use aura of heroism...which is pretty nice. If you really need to cast more greater heroism...you could pick up a pearl of power...but at like 36000 it is a bit steep.

Getting rid of spontaneous cures is a bonus. Some people tend to build glass cannons and/or play recklessly when they have someone they can guilt for cures. If you didn't prepare cures and can't spontaneously convert to them you only have to say no to giving up your fun spells once per day when you prepare spells that aren't cures.

Otherwise the only way to be "not that kind of cleric" is to channel negative energy and channeling negative energy is kind of terrible in a party that contains non-dhampirs.


VampByDay wrote:
Declindgrunt wrote:
Grab flag bearer feat and fight with a long spear and then grab a banner of the ancient kings all of the buffs

aren't those all morale buffs? Wouldn't they NOT STACK?

YUP, those two are actually quite bad together.

Scarab Sages

Atarlost wrote:
ekibus wrote:
You could go evangelist... you would gain inspire courage but sadly would lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure. Add that to heroism and you are putting out some solid buffs. Honestly at 8th level you could use aura of heroism...which is pretty nice. If you really need to cast more greater heroism...you could pick up a pearl of power...but at like 36000 it is a bit steep.

Getting rid of spontaneous cures is a bonus. Some people tend to build glass cannons and/or play recklessly when they have someone they can guilt for cures. If you didn't prepare cures and can't spontaneously convert to them you only have to say no to giving up your fun spells once per day when you prepare spells that aren't cures.

Otherwise the only way to be "not that kind of cleric" is to channel negative energy and channeling negative energy is kind of terrible in a party that contains non-dhampirs.

Actually, that's kind of antithetical to what I want to do with this guy. I'm trying to build a healer because very few people in our area play healers, and I don't mind. I have other characters too, BTW, it's just that I don't have an aversion to play healers.

And playing a cleric but purposefully building them not to heal just so you can say 'sorry, not that kind of cleric?' That's, I mean, that's kinda a low blow. Don't get me wrong, you wanna play a cleric that's not heal-centric, that's fine. Just, from your post it seems like you get a kinda perverse enjoyment out of telling people who come to you for aid "No, can't heal, hahaha."


Yea flag bearer doesn't stack with heroism but it does with bardic performance (inspire courage is a competence bonus to hit/damage)


VampByDay wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
ekibus wrote:
You could go evangelist... you would gain inspire courage but sadly would lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure. Add that to heroism and you are putting out some solid buffs. Honestly at 8th level you could use aura of heroism...which is pretty nice. If you really need to cast more greater heroism...you could pick up a pearl of power...but at like 36000 it is a bit steep.

Getting rid of spontaneous cures is a bonus. Some people tend to build glass cannons and/or play recklessly when they have someone they can guilt for cures. If you didn't prepare cures and can't spontaneously convert to them you only have to say no to giving up your fun spells once per day when you prepare spells that aren't cures.

Otherwise the only way to be "not that kind of cleric" is to channel negative energy and channeling negative energy is kind of terrible in a party that contains non-dhampirs.

Actually, that's kind of antithetical to what I want to do with this guy. I'm trying to build a healer because very few people in our area play healers, and I don't mind. I have other characters too, BTW, it's just that I don't have an aversion to play healers.

And playing a cleric but purposefully building them not to heal just so you can say 'sorry, not that kind of cleric?' That's, I mean, that's kinda a low blow. Don't get me wrong, you wanna play a cleric that's not heal-centric, that's fine. Just, from your post it seems like you get a kinda perverse enjoyment out of telling people who come to you for aid "No, can't heal, hahaha."

Evangelist clerics get the best buffs in the game. You can still memorize some heals for emergencies but between buffs and summons they party really shouldn't need that much emergency healing.

Scarab Sages

FangDragon wrote:


Evangelist clerics get the best buffs in the game. You can still memorize some heals for emergencies but between buffs and summons they party really shouldn't need that much emergency healing.

That's not what atarlist was saying. That's not what I was saying. Atarlist was saying that they were a good class because they couldn't spontaneously convert, so you didn't have to 'waste' your good spells on things like healing people, and when people came to you FOR heals, you could say 'Lol no!' I didn't want to be that kind of player.

Yes, I recognize it's a fine option. But I was leaning more to the ecclesiastathurge archetype so that I could memorize heroism in more than my domain slot. Plus I already have a couple of healers that have to memorize heal spells (namely-my shaman) so I was looking forward to a spontaneous converter.


You're still a healer without spontanous cure spells because in Pathfinder, healing is not done with cure spells. Wands, Channel Energy (with feat investment), and the Heal spell are how you heal in Pathfinder. If players act reckless because they relay on a spontanously cast cure spell, that is indeed extremly hurful to the party.

Still, I wouldn't call loosing the spontaneous casting a bonus, because the issue should IMP be solved by talking to the players. Spontanous casting of cure spells is not a strong class feature, but it's still not a bad thing to have in those extremely rare situations where a cure spell is indeed a good thing.


I really think aura of heroism lessens the need for multiple heroism prepped. The evangelist is a compromise... greater buffing at the cost of having the ability to prep ahead of time. Honestly between a modest investment of cha and a wand will cover you pretty well (if you want maybe level 2+ spells prepped) But as you mentioned if there is another person using heals I would leave it for a case by case option (aka if he isnt there) Pick up lingering performance asap. In your opening post you mentioned you were looking for a buffer first, someone obsessed with heroes

Silver Crusade

Should grab community minded trait. Then you can use your Heroism aura for 1 round and it lasts for 3 rounds ie 8 rounds of usage becomes 24 rounds.

Scarab Sages

Sledgehammer wrote:

Should grab community minded trait. Then you can use your Heroism aura for 1 round and it lasts for 3 rounds ie 8 rounds of usage becomes 24 rounds.

That's a REALLY good trait, but sadly it's a Rahadumi trait. So either I'm a renegade priest on the run, something a super heroism cleric wouldn't be to fond of, or I'm not a cleric.


VampByDay wrote:
Sledgehammer wrote:

Should grab community minded trait. Then you can use your Heroism aura for 1 round and it lasts for 3 rounds ie 8 rounds of usage becomes 24 rounds.

That's a REALLY good trait, but sadly it's a Rahadumi trait. So either I'm a renegade priest on the run, something a super heroism cleric wouldn't be to fond of, or I'm not a cleric.

Would your GM be open to making that trait a campaign trait?

Scarab Sages

Boomerang Nebula wrote:
VampByDay wrote:
Sledgehammer wrote:

Should grab community minded trait. Then you can use your Heroism aura for 1 round and it lasts for 3 rounds ie 8 rounds of usage becomes 24 rounds.

That's a REALLY good trait, but sadly it's a Rahadumi trait. So either I'm a renegade priest on the run, something a super heroism cleric wouldn't be to fond of, or I'm not a cleric.
Would your GM be open to making that trait a campaign trait?

This is going to be a PFS character.


Derklord wrote:

You're still a healer without spontanous cure spells because in Pathfinder, healing is not done with cure spells. Wands, Channel Energy (with feat investment), and the Heal spell are how you heal in Pathfinder. If players act reckless because they relay on a spontanously cast cure spell, that is indeed extremly hurful to the party.

Still, I wouldn't call loosing the spontaneous casting a bonus, because the issue should IMP be solved by talking to the players. Spontanous casting of cure spells is not a strong class feature, but it's still not a bad thing to have in those extremely rare situations where a cure spell is indeed a good thing.

Talking to the other players is only a solution if you have a single group and they all listen.

If you can heal HP some people will assume that if they, through their own recklessness, create a situation where they desperately need in combat HP healing you will sacrifice your ability to do something actually worthwhile to save them even if you've said you won't. If you literally can't heal HP in combat they won't try to manipulate you into doing so by playing recklessly.

A PFS character will eventually meet those people.

The problem is what are in economics called externalities. They're costs not borne by the person making the decision. For instance dumping chemical waste in the river is a cost to everyone downstream, but not to the owners of the factory. In economics externalities can be internalised by things like fines, but in Pathfinder that sort of thing isn't possible. Especially in PFS where you can't transfer wealth between players. Healing costs the cleric actions and spells but costs the player who made the decision that lead to the need for healing nothing. This encourages players to maximize their own utility even if the gain in utility from the risky action relative to more conservative play is far less than the value of a standard action and spell from the cleric. Since you can't charge for healing the only way to internalize the externality is to remove the possibility of healing in a way the other player can't even attempt to appeal.


Atarlost wrote:
Derklord wrote:

You're still a healer without spontanous cure spells because in Pathfinder, healing is not done with cure spells. Wands, Channel Energy (with feat investment), and the Heal spell are how you heal in Pathfinder. If players act reckless because they relay on a spontanously cast cure spell, that is indeed extremly hurful to the party.

Still, I wouldn't call loosing the spontaneous casting a bonus, because the issue should IMP be solved by talking to the players. Spontanous casting of cure spells is not a strong class feature, but it's still not a bad thing to have in those extremely rare situations where a cure spell is indeed a good thing.

Talking to the other players is only a solution if you have a single group and they all listen.

If you can heal HP some people will assume that if they, through their own recklessness, create a situation where they desperately need in combat HP healing you will sacrifice your ability to do something actually worthwhile to save them even if you've said you won't. If you literally can't heal HP in combat they won't try to manipulate you into doing so by playing recklessly.

A PFS character will eventually meet those people.

The problem is what are in economics called externalities. They're costs not borne by the person making the decision. For instance dumping chemical waste in the river is a cost to everyone downstream, but not to the owners of the factory. In economics externalities can be internalised by things like fines, but in Pathfinder that sort of thing isn't possible. Especially in PFS where you can't transfer wealth between players. Healing costs the cleric actions and spells but costs the player who made the decision that lead to the need for healing nothing. This encourages players to maximize their own utility even if the gain in utility from the risky action relative to more conservative play is far less than the value of a standard action and spell from the cleric. Since you can't charge for healing the only...

I don't play PFS, however if this account is typical it sounds like the spirit of role playing and team work is lacking in PFS.

Scarab Sages

Atarlost wrote:

Talking to the other players is only a solution if you have a single group and they all listen.

If you can heal HP some people will assume that if they, through their own recklessness, create a situation where they desperately need in combat HP healing you will sacrifice your ability to do something actually worthwhile to save them even if you've said you won't. If you literally can't heal HP in combat they won't try to manipulate you into doing so by playing recklessly.

A PFS character will eventually meet those people.

The problem is what are in economics called externalities. They're costs not borne by the person making the decision. For instance dumping chemical waste in the river is a cost to everyone downstream, but not to the owners of the factory. In economics externalities can be internalised by things like fines, but in Pathfinder that sort of thing isn't possible. Especially in PFS where you can't transfer wealth between players. Healing costs the cleric actions and spells but costs the player who made the decision that lead to the need for healing nothing. This encourages players to maximize their own utility even if the gain in utility from the risky action relative to more conservative play is far less than the value of a standard action and spell from the cleric. Since you can't charge for healing the only...

That's . . . listen. Three things.

First off, I have no problem playing a healing-focused character. I have done so before, and I am willing to do so again. I know some people avoid them like the plague because they don't like healing, but I am not one of those guys. I like it when I save people from dying because I know how relieved I feel when MY characters get saved from dying by a friendly cleric. I've had characters that almost (or did) die several times (NOT from me being reckless) and it's always been a friendly cleric/witch/oracle that has seen me through to the end. I know how attached I get to my characters, and how others get attached, and I want someone who can help those characters through the day. I have had several characters that have done that, an oracle, a white mage arcanist, a shaman, but they are now either retired or in the 7-11 tier and I need a new one.

Two: I have never, EVER seen someone decide to be super reckless because they assume the party cleric is their own pet healer. Intentionally gimping a character so that you don't have to deal with one hypothetical jerk player is just . . . I don't actually have a word for it. I have, at WORST seen someone decide to take an AoO that they normally wouldn't have because there was an NPC Kyra in the party. I have much more often seen jerk clerics who refuse to channel positive energy even if the entire party gets hit with an empowered chain lightning to the face.

Three: The places that I normally game at are fun places, where people generally bring their A game. No one assumes another character is their pet anything. At most, the party, say, fighter will ask the party cleric to use the fighter's own wand on him, so that the fighter doesn't have to futz with UMD checks. It's always a treated as a gift and a gesture of good faith when PCs do stuff like heal other PCs or cast heroism or whatever, it's never 'an expected thing.' Well, maybe the wizard casting haste on everyone, but that's about the worst of it.

To summarize, I wanna create a buffer, a healer, and a dude that helps the party succeed. I don't need to be raining down flamestrikes every round. I have plenty of other characters that can do that. I want this guy to be a team player. You don't think that character is fun, fine, to each their own, but I LIKE IT.


I m no expert in pfs, but I am creating a support cleric and I share your views on healing. What I am going for is a Halfling with the helpfull trait, combat reflexes and Bodyguard, which let s you grant your ally +4 on their AC if you re standing in the second row, while wielding a spear.
You can do the same with a other race but the bonus will only be +3.

For the heroism domain you re probably looking at Saranrea or Iomedea, not sure how that fits with the on the run theme. Saranrea gives you the option of good domain or fire if you want to occasionaly blast something with fire.
Iomedae gives you the good or war(tactics sub) domain which has a good spell selection.
I m not a big fan of the cleric archetypes, but the evangelist has a place. Since you re so focused on heroism your group will probably not have a bard and the evangelist would fill that void. But the core cleric will do just fine and having two domains from where you can choose the xtra spell is really important to me.
Where you go after the bodyguard feat is up to you. If you went with halfling your spear dmg is probably not so great I would focus on metamagic and utility feats like improved initiative.
As a cleric I would personally not use channels in combat, since you re probably lacking charisma to exclude all enemies with selectiv channeling, but if you find a way to make it work, I love the combination of quick channeling and shield other. Around lvl 8 mobs really hit hard and this is a solid way to keep your group alive. That s atleast how I do it with my live oracle.

If you can narrow down your deity and race I can suggest you a build.


I have a PFS buffing/healing cleric, and my favourite feat for that character is Combat Advice. If you have nothing else to do with your move action, hand out to hit bonuses.

Also, though it won't work with Heroism unless you do some sort of Seperatist build, look at the Milani specific feat Beacon of Hope, which gives your channels a buffing effect when you use them.


i love clerics or oracles that have a animal companion.
i'll list several options below.
at low levels - the cleric heal and buff while the AC tank and do some damage.
the cleric can keep the beast "up to date" with share spells and more.

later in the game - the AC slowly become a mount that use air walk while the cleric choose a path - melee, debuffer, summoner , caster .
choosing is vital - as with so few feats around - the cleric need to choose wisely.

the action economy of a decent mount that can fight and kill well, while the cleric heal and cast\attack as well is very solid.

for example:
cleric that take fire (ash) + feather. :
focus on fire spells (need prefered spell to get fire ball memorized.) and elemental spell - all the while as the AC defend you (wolf great.)
level 7+ use extend air walks to fly about.

cleric of animal + madness or chaos can be a great "bad touch" .
invest in guided hand and a conductive weapon and smite\bad touch while you heal and buff and the AC assist. choose a flying animal for greater fun or even take a halfling and use a medium mount.

Herald Caller can take glory (heroim) to buff well, and invest in 3 feats (animal ally + boon companion) to also have a AC.
summon strong allies and keep the allies well buffed.

Evangelist : if no bard in the group.... can buff the best, and use a great action economy passed level 5.
the domain can be animal > saving 3 feats
fire > to add some blasting powers
chaos\madness > bad touch road
heroismor luck > best buffer in the game.

Ecclesitheurge :
normally a bad arcytype, but add 1 monk level (kata master) and wow.
domains are :
main : fire (great spell selections)
sub : animal
trade spells for : heroism
or :
main : fire
sub : madness
spells : anyting better then madness spell
and take 3 feats for AC.
take domain strike (chos or madness), combat casting, channel smite, guided hand , crusaders flurry.
it take some time but... later you flurry a scimitar , using wisdom to hit, using 1\round madness touch (no save!) and cast fireballs if swarms or many small foes.
the damage isnt sky high, but with the AC and all the tools you have ? it isnt bad.
wisdom for will saves, to hit, AC, CMD.... not bad at all

Scarab Sages

After looking through a bunch of stuff I eventually found the archetype I wanted: theologian. It lets me memorize my domain spells in non-domain slots while still giving me full channels. Working with the stats I have:

Nagaji cleric (Theologin) of Iomede(NG)
Domain: Glory (subdomain, heroism)
Str:15
Dex:10
Con: 14
Int:10
Wis:14
Chr:16

Feat: selective channeling
Traits: Exalted of society, (community minded?)

This way the character can do something in combat with a longsword, but also has healing options and can start getting heroism at level 5. Because of the Theologin archetype I could make all of my heroisms extended. Feats would include extra channeling and maybe toughness.


Heroism , as theologian is a waste ....
Other than heroism, what will you take at level 10?
Won't evangelist and heroism with extend feat and a trait so it won't cost more be a lot better ?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Intensify that holy smite. Just try not to hit your allies.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would go with Evangelist Cleric with Heroism Subdomain then focus on Summoning spells with Augment summoning and such. So much party support and yet maximizing the benefits of your bardic performance and heroism aura by providing more allies.

Grand Lodge

VampByDay wrote:

So, I had an idea for a character, but it's basically only a bare-bones idea. After tooling around the archives of nethys for a while, I noticed the heroism subdomain, and it's really good. Add heroism and greater heroism to your domain spells, and you can start handing out AoE heroisms for rounds at a time, great stuff. So I thought about making a heroism cleric. A dude (or dudette) obsessed with heroes, and inspiring others to be heroes.

So far I'm thinking an ecclesiastathurge cleric, so I can memorize heroism multiple times a day, plus still channel energy, heal, that sort of thing.

Thing is, that's about all I've got, and I don't really know how I can contribute more to a party other than healing and heroism. I'm not going to be a great caster because wisdom takes a back seat to charisma, and I can't wear armor, so fighting is kinda out.

Any suggestions?

If I remember correctly a Cleric of Shelyn can prepare Good Hope as a 4th level spell.


while this might be an ok option at early lvls you ll regret putting so many points into strenght at around lvl 7 when you have enough spells and focus on supporting the group more and more. You re a full caster and later on will not be able to compete with the dmg any melee character does. Just stick to a crossbow for early lvls for the rounds you have nothing better to do. You ll profit alot more later on from high dexterity. your wisdom is also very low, remember you do not gain additional spells if you raise your wisdom with magic items.

Scarab Sages

666bender wrote:

Heroism , as theologian is a waste ....

Other than heroism, what will you take at level 10?
Won't evangelist and heroism with extend feat and a trait so it won't cost more be a lot better ?

Evangelists have gimped channel energy, and can't spontaneously convert. Plus empowered holy smite for my level 10 choice. 15d6 vs undead at level 10 is pretty good.


xevious573 wrote:
I would go with Evangelist Cleric with Heroism Subdomain then focus on Summoning spells with Augment summoning and such. So much party support and yet maximizing the benefits of your bardic performance and heroism aura by providing more allies.

This.

If you're already laying out AOE Heroism and healing channeling, then having MORE friendly combatants on-hand exploits it even more.
This would also make you more able to contribute in other ways by accessing the abilities and sheer numbers of Summoning.

Summoning is battlefield control (they threaten squares and block charge lines), offense (they do damage), utility (skills, abilities and SLAs in later levels), and buffing (aid another, flank, SLAs in later levels, absorb attacks) all rolled into one.

If you do this, and take Spell Focus (conjuration) and Augmented Summoning (as suggested by xevious573), you would become terrifying.

Maybe keep some Dispel Magic memorized to remove any pesky Magic Circle or Protection From spells :)


Also, although sacred summon is weak, as it's limited , it's a great round 1 power house.
Summon something , bard buff and heroism all in round 1 ....
Getting animal companion (3 feat cost or domain +1 feat cost ) also add number of bodies.


Herald Caller has you covered if you want to focus on summoning. And consider the Noble Scion/Scion of War feat. You wlll want a high initiative if you plan to hand out group buffs. You will also want a good charisma as a healer. Since an Initiative check is an ability check and yours is now tied to Charisma instead of Dexterity you can use the Touch of Glory ability to effectively add your level to your initiative several times a day. You will be really good at Charisma based skills also. And Circlet of Persuasion serves double duty as an initiative booster as well.

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