Size Modifier vs Special Size Modifier


Rules Questions


A Combat Maneuver check is an attack roll.

A Large or larger creature has both a penalty to attack rolls and a special size modifier to CMB/CMD.

So, when a Large creature makes a combat maneuver check, what bonuses/penalties do they get for being Large? Do they get both the size penalty to the "attack roll" (-1) and the special size modifier to their CMB (+1) that they add to that attack roll, effectively netting no bonus/penalty? Or does the special size modifier displace the normal size modifier for the roll as a whole?


RaizielDragon wrote:

A Combat Maneuver check is an attack roll.

A Large or larger creature has both a penalty to attack rolls and a special size modifier to CMB/CMD.

So, when a Large creature makes a combat maneuver check, what bonuses/penalties do they get for being Large? Do they get both the size penalty to the "attack roll" (-1) and the special size modifier to their CMB (+1) that they add to that attack roll, effectively netting no bonus/penalty? Or does the special size modifier displace the normal size modifier for the roll as a whole?

They only add the CMB bonus. The penalty only applies to the Large+ creature's regular attacks, not to CMB checks. The same applies for the size penalty and size bonus for their CMD, they add the bonus to their CMD and the penalty to their AC.

The reverse applies for creatures that are Small or smaller. They use their CMB/CMD penalties for combat maneuvers, and their attack/AC bonuses for regular attack rolls.


Thanks; as I suspected.


Diachronos wrote:
RaizielDragon wrote:

A Combat Maneuver check is an attack roll.

A Large or larger creature has both a penalty to attack rolls and a special size modifier to CMB/CMD.

So, when a Large creature makes a combat maneuver check, what bonuses/penalties do they get for being Large? Do they get both the size penalty to the "attack roll" (-1) and the special size modifier to their CMB (+1) that they add to that attack roll, effectively netting no bonus/penalty? Or does the special size modifier displace the normal size modifier for the roll as a whole?

They only add the CMB bonus. The penalty only applies to the Large+ creature's regular attacks, not to CMB checks. The same applies for the size penalty and size bonus for their CMD, they add the bonus to their CMD and the penalty to their AC.

The reverse applies for creatures that are Small or smaller. They use their CMB/CMD penalties for combat maneuvers, and their attack/AC bonuses for regular attack rolls.

I think you're probably right, but where do the rules say that?


In the CRB under Combat.
Attack uses the "Size modifier", while CMB uses the "Special Size modifier":


Pretty sneaky, Sis!

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