The Defenders


Television

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Scarab Sages

Didn't see a thread for this yet, so.....

I've never seen any of the Netflix Marvel series, but I keep up with developments, so knew they were working on The Defenders. Here's some interesting news:

Marvel unites The Defenders, introduces Sigourney Weaver as main villain


Uhm I don't think they actually SAID Sigourney was the main villain, Aber. It might be implied but I don't think that it's necessarily true.

Also what female villain could she play anyway? Viper? Madame Hydra?


Okay so Shin confirmed your link.

Also I have a theory: Superia aka Diedre Wentworth.

Scarab Sages

Huzzah for confirmation! That's a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Maybe she is Justine Hammer? Now that

Spoiler:
Luke Cage reminds us that Hammertech exist without Justin on the wheel?
Crimson Cowl would look cool live.


The Hand will be a part of it. They replayed the teaser from SDCC at NYCC and it had Stick narrating and also a HAND in the teaser. So, whoever Ripley will be playing, will have ties to the Hand, I guess.


Well that doesn't exactly give us much to work with Hythlodeus.

I mean A.I.M., HYDRA, and few dozen others have worked with, have ties to, or even occasionally used the Hand in many roles.

I still think it's Superia but Justine Hammer (in some form) might be likely too I guess.


Idk, Celia Ricadonna is a character that would fit with the usual changes


Could be one of the humanoid natives of Dormanu's dread dimension.
Dr. Strange used to have a girlfriend from there.

Maybe the Nameless One contaminated some lady. In any case, anything might be hiring The Hand.

Liberty's Edge

I see her as less a physical threat to the Defenders and more a political/organisational threat.

I've no idea who she is playing but I'm expecting her to be some kind of American representative of The Hand.


So far all that we know is she's clearly NOT powered which tends to limit the pool of people. Is she a Hand representative? Maybe. Maybe not.

All I am certain is until her role in this is clarified, I'm not sure I can get THAT much excited about it.

Dark Archive

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The gangs all here teaser.

Scarab Sages

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Loved the teaser. And according to an article I saw, the time stamp on the video when Jessica smashes the camera is the release date - 8/8/2017.


The code on the top left of the teaser is the website ip address. ;)


Good: Nirvana
Bad: messing up the song


Bjorn,

Not sure I follow but okay. I am happy we're getting Defenders before October.


Translation: the only thing that made any impression either way was the use of "Come as you are".

Liberty's Edge

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First full trailer . Looks fun. Glad we getting more Daredevil


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Looks like I need to hurry up and finish iron fist. Judging by the trailer the epic hallway pan/ fight sequence is going to be a tradition for the Netflix Marvel shows.


Why finish IF? I didn't, and still look forward to Defenders. I'm especially looking forward to making hallway memes for Defenders!

Scarab Sages

Honestly, IF is not bad. It just isn't as good as the other shows. If you really don't want to watch it you can read the I09 recap here.

Definitely looking forward to Defenders.


Defenders is probably going to be watched BEFORE I watch IF. If only because it seems Defenders looks much more fun and better story.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I have a completionist mindset when it comes to the MCU I feel like I'd be missing part of the story if I skip the show. Summaries just arnt the same for me.

I've seen a bunch of folks knocking IF, but several people I know said that they quite enjoyed it after the first two episodes. So I'm going to give it a chance. Right now I'm working on the last three episodes of Luke Cage, which I think has been a far weaker show than either DD or JJ. So if I can make it though that I can make it through IF.


IF is not as bad as people say...it's the worst of the existing MCU shows but they set a pretty high bar.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

It's like saying X is the least attractive woman on the crew of the Serenity. They're all pretty fine looking women.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Also, Iron Fist's plot is pretty strongly connected to the Defenders it seems.

Sovereign Court

Get your pitch forks out but I barely finished JJ and couldn't get through IF.....

Ranking:
DD1 (excellent)
LC (above average)
DD2 (didn't live up to DD1 punisher/fisk was best part)
JJ (mediocre-bad)
IF (couldn't finish)

If it wasn't for a pretty good showing by LC, I'd say the series keeps getting worse. The one thing the worse of the series have going for them, is the continuity. I look forward to Defenders, hopefully Defenders bucks the trend. If that fails, there is always Punisher!


I think Defenders looks like a great big pile of Fun. I can't wait to see Danny and Luke together.

Plus seeing Matt fend off Jessica's level of snark is gonna be great.

For me JJ was the best of the lot, then DD1.

LC was great until they changed villains. Cottonmouth was just so much better both as a villain and as a character. An incredibly deep layered individual and then we had to swap him out for Diamondback who just came across as kind of flat and two dimensional.


Diamondback was a good cartoony villain for the show which had up to that point been basically just a gangster drama. LC didn't feel like a show with a superpowered protagonist until Diamondback took over. Cottonmouth and Black Mariah were good gangster villains but lacked the exaggeratedness that 'super'villains need.

On topic, the show looks....OK, I guess. I'll give it a shot.


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8/8/17 approaches. This has been one of the longest waits I've had for a Marvel show.


Anyone seen any of it yet?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I've watched the first episode and a half this morning (Netflix in one window, morning exercises in the other).

Overall... I look forward to seeing what happens next.

What I struggle with is they are taking forever, at least from the start, to get the story going and get everyone together. The 1st episode sees NONE of the four titular characters meet each other. It's more like... the first episode is a bunch of interlaced mini-episodes of each individual show. I didn't get to the end of the second yet, but I saw things starting to move.

But pacing, IMO, has never been a strong point of the Marvel Netflix series. I admit to napping through large chunks of each show (especially Daredevil, though mostly because I'd shut my eyes through the gorier fight scenes and then the lengthy sounds of punching became sort of rhythmic and hypnotic and zzzz...)--even as I absolutely, seriously enjoyed key moments of awesome also in each show. Plotting and characterization is good, they just take forever to get there and I have a feeling it will be no different here. They also continue the Marvel Netflix aesthetic of shooting half the scenes in the dark with everyone whispering. (I am not to my knowledge hard of hearing (though have mildly poor auditory processing) and have to watch the shows close captioned or I can never understand what anyone is saying--turn up the volume and the background music just gets louder while everyone still mumbles. Preemptive response to "well I understand it just fine!" Yay, good for you! I am talking about my personal experience only.)

The mystery of what the bad guys are up to and impending disaster is interesting, the characters are the characters as you'd expect them, and there's some good badassery on display. A remarkably HUGE number of each shows' supporting casts have also already shown up (which makes me happy as in many cases I enjoyed the supporting cast more than the heroes themselves). Yet the show is managing the huge cast admirably--and maybe that's something where the slow pacing allows for a bit.

Alexandra doesn't stand out to me much... yet. (Although Sigourney Weaver is always awesome.) She seems sort of your generic rich mysterious evil overlord. But there's also some specific questions about her character that arise early on that interest me. Madame Gao is also present and as she's one of my favorite MCU villains (she's the main reason I watched Iron Fist) so it was good to see her.

Sovereign Court

@DQ I hear you about closed captioning :) I had a row with my fiancé recently because she hates CC and I use it for your stated reasons. Of course, I end up turning it off to make her happy only to be accosted about turning up the volume and rewinding the scene to decipher the inaudible dialogue moments later.....

Sovereign Court

Shut your eyes through gorier fight scenes?


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It's damn good to see you post, DeathQuaker.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Thanks. :) Things are slow in RL at the moment so I'm sticking my toe in the waters of posting more. (Things may cease to be slow soonish so this may be temporary.)

On the topic of the show: speaking of shooting in the dark, the opening scene of the first episode totally confused me because I totally thought a character they were showing fighting was Colleen Wing. They were shooting in the dark and not showing her face, but she had a similar build and hairstyle as Colleen and was fighting with awesome sword fu. But it is not Colleen. I'm pointing this out in case anyone else is confused upon watching the first scene.


The first fight scene was basically a check list of how to shoot crappy actions scenes. All it lacked was excessive shaky cam, a fact which surprised me.


I have finished the first episode and started the second.

thoughts:

Almost nothing useful happened in episode 1, which is fine if you are doing a 20 episode season, not so much an 8 episode one.

The first episode seemed to be entirely reminding us (or introducing to people who didn't watch everything) who all the characters are.


Perk for being third shift I watch the whole thing at the bare minimum time it takes when it came out.


Seen 4 episodes so far and loving it.

Danny seems to have grown up a little, don't get me wrong he is still impulsive and can't really seem to plan more than 1 step ahead, but he seems more open to listening to other people and recognizing when he is being a bit stupid.

Matt is coming to terms with the mess he made of his life

Luke and Danny are really fun to see together. That friendly banter they got really works.

and Jessica is awesome as always.

I think I have a good idea of what's the end game here. The irony of it is I think they could "win the war" by bugging out and doing nothing but lie low for a few years. Of course the death tole in the meantime would be catastrophic but I figure Stick would offer up a quote about Omletts and Eggs.

Dark Archive

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Gosh, I was hoping

Spoiler:
When the Hand leaders mentioned calling in a special someone from South America, I was kind of hoping for a White Tiger appearance as a late-term surprise.


Set wrote:

Gosh, I was hoping

** spoiler omitted **

I would have been down for that. I don't know if that counts as a spoiler :D


as to be intentionally vague since i'm no good at making the spoilers. I think the next season of daredevil will be interesting.


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Just started, a little slow at first.

One thing made me a little sad. Sigourney Weaver is starting to look old. It's not a "oh man, she used to be hot" thing, but rather just seeing one of my favorite actresses of all time showing the effects of time. I want to see her in movies/shows for another 40 years. She'll continue killing it in whatever she does, but it just reminded me of how many icons died last year and the prospect of seeing more go in the coming years. I just don't want her to have a "final" project. She keeps getting more badass too.

Liberty's Edge

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I'm going to watch this soon. IGN is giving the episodes pretty poor reviews. But I'll think I'll like it. I enjoyed the other Netflix Marvel shows.

I heard Daredevil season 3 will be:

Spoiler:
all out fight between Fisk/ Kingpin and Matt/ Daredevil

Dark Archive

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Irontruth wrote:

Just started, a little slow at first.

One thing made me a little sad. Sigourney Weaver is starting to look old. It's not a "oh man, she used to be hot" thing, but rather just seeing one of my favorite actresses of all time showing the effects of time. I want to see her in movies/shows for another 40 years. She'll continue killing it in whatever she does, but it just reminded me of how many icons died last year and the prospect of seeing more go in the coming years. I just don't want her to have a "final" project. She keeps getting more badass too.

I like that she's mature, without necessarily being stuck with the 'old lady' roles that actresses like Judi Densch, Diana Rigg and Helen Mirren seem to be getting stuck with.

Spoiler regarding her character, probably information gained in the first or second episode;

Spoiler:
OTOH, a sense of age and impending fragility (and desperation) kind of suited the role she's playing, and I hope that she was playing that up, and is in vibrant good health in real life!

Spoilery thoughts regarding the entire season;

Spoiler:
I know bupkiss about how K'un-Lun and the Hand and the dragons and the Hand's resurrection techniques have anything to do with each other in the comic book canon, but, gosh, that was kind of an elegant way to tie it all together, at the end, so that it made sense that the Hand was so strongly motivated to get back there. It was really neat, and served as a cool bit of connective thread between the various shows. (Other connective threads, such as the chemicals that took Daredevil's sight also being the ones that empowered Jessica Jones, and *may* have been related in some way to the stuff that was used on Luke Cage, weren't addressed, although it seems like, by the end, Jessica knows a lot more than she did.)

I *really* like that they showed her using her detective abilities, and didn't just hand-wave that. On a team with Luke and Danny, her being able to punch really hard wasn't, IMO, going to make her stand out, and the detective work really did give her a moment to shine and make a unique contribution. Actually that applies to all four of them. Matt contributed with the lawyering and law connections, in addition to punching. Jessica with the detective work. Danny with the money and big-business connections (albeit ineptly, as seems to be his wont). The only who didn't get a chance to shine, outside of the punching, was Luke, whose 'Hero of Harlem' status and reputation was mentioned, and only briefly seen, when he asks some people for information and their eyes go wide and they immediately tell him, rather than giving him attitude, but perhaps could have played a larger role, to make him more than 'the guy who stands in front of the bullets.'

But that's a pretty minor quibble, and the show was overall pretty good.


Set wrote:


Spoilery thoughts regarding the entire season;
Spoiler:
I know bupkiss about how K'un-Lun and the Hand and the dragons and the Hand's resurrection techniques have anything to do with each other in the comic book canon, but, gosh, that was kind of an elegant way to tie it all together, at the end, so that it made sense that the Hand was so strongly motivated to get back there. It was really neat, and served as a cool bit of connective thread between the various shows.

Spoiler:
As far as I know, in the comics they're not connected. Two completely separate mystical martial arts traditions - at least back when both were introduced. They may have tied them together more recently?

Still, in the much smaller MCU, if you're going to have Daredevil (and thus Elektra/the Hand) and Iron Fist, it makes to tie them together. No reason to confuse audiences by introducing similar, but unrelated enemies.


Set wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

Just started, a little slow at first.

One thing made me a little sad. Sigourney Weaver is starting to look old. It's not a "oh man, she used to be hot" thing, but rather just seeing one of my favorite actresses of all time showing the effects of time. I want to see her in movies/shows for another 40 years. She'll continue killing it in whatever she does, but it just reminded me of how many icons died last year and the prospect of seeing more go in the coming years. I just don't want her to have a "final" project. She keeps getting more badass too.

I like that she's mature, without necessarily being stuck with the 'old lady' roles that actresses like Judi Densch, Diana Rigg and Helen Mirren seem to be getting stuck with.

Yup, she still carries herself with a lot of strength, but she's nearly 70. And this isn't a judgement of her, but rather an indictment against the passage of time in general. Halfway through the series so far and I think she's a great pick for the role.

Sovereign Court

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Honestly I found it dull and uninteresting. It was mostly OK, but dunno. I guess I expected more. My fault.

Dark Archive

Hama wrote:
Honestly I found it dull and uninteresting. It was mostly OK, but dunno. I guess I expected more. My fault.

The fight scenes did nothing to wow me, but, I'll admit, fight scenes almost never wow me, but Daredevil season 1 had some brutal and intense fights (that hallway fight!) and it feels like they've never really matched that intensity in any show since, despite, in some cases, seeming to be desperately trying to (including framing very similar fights in hallways).

But, since I don't really get all worked up over fight scenes (only really noticing them when they are spectacular, or kinda lackluster, like in the Iron Fist series), I found lots of cool stuff in the character development, world-building and story arc.

*Some* of the dialogue felt a little too pat, too formulaic, and I vaguely remember one scene in particular where I kind of rolled my eyes as a character dropped a cliché, and I muttered the 'traditional' response, and sure enough, those were the next words out of Luke Cage's mouth. I know, there's only so many words in the English language, and *nothing* is really going to be original, but sometimes the dialogue (and characterization, less often) came off a bit phoned-in and by-the-numbers, like some of the 'NPC' characters were shorthand, and being written less like *people* in their own right.

At least some of that is less a fault of the writing and more a fault with the jaded audience of me, that can't watch (or read) anything these days without being reminded of a hundred other shows (or books) that have used that exact scene or line or characterization bit.

I think I'd enjoy shows and books more if I could turn off my brain and forget every other show and book I'd consumed over the years, and that there are only so many stories to tell (or broad-strokes characters to use)...

All that aside, I liked the stuff I mentioned in the spoilers above, and thought the way they tied stuff together was super clever, despite my all-too-common gift for nit-picking the heck out of anything. :)

I also enjoyed the lampshade-hanging going on whenever Danny tried to talk about magical cities or dragons or whatever, and everybody just rolled their eyes. Even Matt, who had previous experience with serious supernatural weirdness, thanks to the Hand resurrecting Nabu in the second season of his solo show, was not having it, at first.

Spoilers again!

Spoiler:
Gosh, I hope we see Gao again! If anyone made it out alive, then perhaps she could have as well. I'm glad they used her force-pushing stuff relatively conservatively, and didn't have her go all Yoda vs. Count Dooku and start jumping around like a telekinetic bullfrog.

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