The Defenders


Television

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Orville Redenbacher wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:
There needs to be a mega streaming service that streams all the other streaming services.
lol. Its funny how folks wanted so badly to have a la carte viewing and now want it all back in one buffet. Folks starting to learn that cutting the cord isn't ending up any cheaper unless you are disciplined enough to rotate your subscriptions.

And as more streaming services come online, I feel like the overall quality of each service is declining. At the very least, its pretty obvious that the overall catalog of movies and older shows has taken a hit on Netflix. I am paying more money overall for less product. And some of the newer streaming services just feel rushed out, with the overall platforms buggy and crash prone. That's been my experience with Shudder, and to a lesser extent HBOnow.


Vidmaster7 wrote:

Most part agreed but Sticks was lecturing Luke about always pulling punches. I think Luke isn't just going all out.

Now Jessica I have a hard time imagining her thinking I better pull this punch so I don't kill this ninja. Of course I don't think she has any real combat training at all its entirely natural abilities. Although I suppose that should mean she should be less good at pulling punches and just splattering ninjas everywhere.

I really hated Jessica in this show. Admittedly I hated her LESS then I did in her own show... She's still bitter and snarky, but it's more tolerable for some reason. However, she just seemed so useless here. I blame the overlapping power sets and a LOT of inconsistency with her. She's strong... but not as strong as Cage, she's tough... but not as tough as Cage. Sometimes she can yank a car off a tow truck or throw pallets of cinderblocks around... but when she kicks a general mook the best that happens is he stumbles a bit??? Even if she's pulling punches, (which isn't really her style) they should at least go flying across the room, or into a pillar or something. They don't have to explode or anything, but if she can punch cars and bricks, an average ninja/gang member shouldn't be shaking off or basically ignoring her hits like that.

One of the major issues was just too much of the same stuff. Two martial artists, two strong people.... everyone just punching everyone else in the dark. At least when Colleen was there the sword was something different.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I thought Jessica was stronger than Luke. I thought Luke's was mostly invulnerable and a little super strong. But I'm not a comics expert at all.


I think currently in the comics luke is a little stronger then jess they have increased how much luke can bench over the last few years. at one point yeah I would say jess was stronger. but now luke is up there.

Silver Crusade

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Iron Fist is the worst, and makes this show bad by featuring so heavily in it. Any action sequence with him in it is so painfully slow. If they could at least put him in the Iron Fist costume they could get a decent stunt double to do the martial arts bits.

The villains also don't have enough impact/rivalry with the heroes. The most personal rivalry was between Wing and her sensei.
Sigorney Weaver's character was great, but wasted. Gao is always a pleasure to watch, but she didn't have a deep enough connection to the heroes to really be an interesting villain.

The other two Hand leaders are very forgettable, they had no real connection or threat to the heroes.

Elektra's motivations were so pointless, was she looking for immortality? Or to die with Matt? Why didn't she just kill the Hand and walk away?

I liked it enough to watch until the end, but I was more interested in what was going on with the side characters than the heroes.

Also I'm kind of sick of characters being sceptical of Iron Fist's weird magic stuff. Aliens came down and destroyed the city one time, there's an Avenger called Scarlet Witch. Daredevil has seen enemies brought back to life by magic. The world is weird, it's comics move on with your dumb scepticism.

Silver Crusade

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I think it's more their skeptical of Danny, and so skeptical of Iron Fist by proxy.


Maybe, but I don't recall people doubting that the thing in Tony's chest is called an "arc reactor". Or that "terrigen crystals" gave Wanda or Daisy their powers. Certainly, no one questioned the immovable object being mad of some material not found on Earth.

I think Danny knows how he got his powers. He clearly has them. Why question him on the details?


just because I see aliens for the first time doesn't automatically make leprechauns Santa and dragons exists for me too. However I may have to take a second look at the guy in the malls in the big red suit...

I got my powers from punching (dipping into w/e) a dragon....riiiiight....

Shadow Lodge

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I mean, the whole world saw massive space dragons come through a magical portal above New York, and probably do not think Thor is an "alien", (and we know that kids in Europe are familiar with him via YouTube).

Dragons and a magical city shouldn't be that unbelievable, and Matt could have simply added in a "Um, guys, he is either not lying or he can beat my magic lie-detector".

The main issue is that the main premise of the show is that Iron Fist has to act like an idiot, and be there primarily as a plot device key. I have a really hard time believing that he is one of the best martial artists in the world(s) and that Electra both gave him a challenging fight while also "tricking" him (so contrived) into opening the way up.

I'm sorry, that was just stupid and really unduly detracted from the Iron Fist character that was already on thin ice. Again, I'd argue it wasn't the actor or the character, just the overall terrible way that both Iron Fist and the Defenders handled the character overall, telling us he is supposed to be _______, but constantly showing us very much the opposite. <the or one of the best martial artists, wise, meditative and patient, etc. . .>

I think the main issue comes down to having JJ in the show. Both Dare Devil and Luck Cage had already really drove in the fact that those two characters, as a very large part of their personality/motivation are doing it for the "little guy on the streets". Jessica kind of does, too, but is mostly out for herself, sort of.

If they also made Iron Fist very conscious of all the innocent bystanders as a part of his character, that would have reduced a great deal of the potential tension and conflict between the characters, but also basically made it three males against one female, which is something I think they wanted to avoid at all costs. That sort of leaves Danny, being the late-comer, with no real character foundation.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Re: Jessica and Luke Cage's powers. Part of the problem in the show is that both of their powers tend to be as strong as the plot demands. They are either lacking a series bible that gives the writers a solid guideline for what they can lift/carry/exert force upon (which is an amateurish mistake) or writers are ignoring said series bible (also a mistake). Also part of the issue with Jessica in particular is she doesn't always try very hard (is perhaps afraid to because she knows how much damage she can do) and doesn't use her powers to maximum potential. But my understanding is this is what they are supposed to be:

Luke Cage is nearly impervious (except to plot powered superbullets) and super strong, I think to roughly car lifting above his head level. He is slightly stronger than Jessica, though part of that is also his imperviousness--because he can't puncture his skin, he can be more reckless with his brute strength, like punching into metal or glass because it won't cut him at all. Skill wise he's a talented boxer and has some social skills.

Jessica is super strong to roughly almost car-lifting level (can hold up an elevator car, can lift one end of a car off the ground at least), has better reflexes than Luke, can heal fast but is not impervious like Luke, and has seldom-used super-jumping powers which may or may not be a precursor to being able to fly for brief spurts. (In the comics, she, in her own words, "flies badly.") She hardly jumps, but we've seen it a couple times on JJ, and she uses it at the very end of the Defenders to get out of the elevator shaft. Skill wise she is a very talented detective with various investigative and photography skills, which gives her a unique way of helping the group even when her powers don't apply. AFAIK, she is the only one of them not formally combat trained and relies on brute force to survive in fighting.

On not believing Danny: one one hand, I think the disbelief of weird stuff/powers is a little overdone: New Yorkers in the Marvel Universe should be able to swallow a lot of the potentially impossible. On the other, however, but I agree that part of the issue is that when he talks about it, Danny sounds like a little kid recapping his favorite cartoon and making it sound like he is the hero of it, so it's hard to take his particular stuff seriously.


Honestly, I don't have much of a problem with people not believing Danny. IRL people believe all sorts of weird stuff and dismiss other equally weird stuff.
Just try getting religious people to take other religions seriously, or various out there conspiracy theorists to understand sense.

In this case it could very well be a matter of instinctively not wanting to believe in this doofus. "Him? Kill a dragon? yeah, right."
'Aliens are fine because that's basically just science but magic cities and dragons aren't real' is a perfectly understandable reaction.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I got the impression they were teasing Danny when they were being "skeptical" of his dragon fighting prowess.

Also, do they ever go into the details of how big the dragon Danny fought was?


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SmiloDan wrote:

I got the impression they were teasing Danny when they were being "skeptical" of his dragon fighting prowess.

Also, do they ever go into the details of how big the dragon Danny fought was?

The image on his chest is actual size. Don't tell anyone.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

thejeff wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

I got the impression they were teasing Danny when they were being "skeptical" of his dragon fighting prowess.

Also, do they ever go into the details of how big the dragon Danny fought was?

The image on his chest is actual size. Don't tell anyone.

That reminds me of that Buffy Halloween episode with the haunted house.

At the end of the episode, Giles is reading a tome about the demon Buffy stomped. The illustration says "Actual Size."

Dark Archive

SmiloDan wrote:
thejeff wrote:
The image on his chest is actual size. Don't tell anyone.

That reminds me of that Buffy Halloween episode with the haunted house.

At the end of the episode, Giles is reading a tome about the demon Buffy stomped. The illustration says "Actual Size."

That was a fun one.

Xander "Aw, who's a cute little fear demon!"
Giles "Xander, don't taunt the fear demon."
Xander "Why? Can he hurt me?"
Giles "No. It's just tacky."

And yeah, being able to fight a dragon to earn the iron fist could seem kind of improbable to Luke since Danny couldn't even affect Luke *without* the iron fist...

I suspect the writers were just hanging the lampshade of viewers need to up their suspension of disbelief by having the other characters also express skepticism.


I would consult my encyclopedia - but Jewel didn't exist when the 90s edition released. Looking at the Marvel wiki:

Luke was originally Class 5 strength but is now class 50. Jessica is Class 2. (They have some new scale that looks like it was based on Transformers Tech Specs, which puts them both at a "4" whatever that means).
Putting it in perspective:
Captain America, Hawkeye - Peak Human (movie Cap is more like Class 10)
Spider-man - Class 10
Thor, Hulk, Drax - Class 100

(Class = Tons lifted)


If I remember it correctley in her series it was said, that Jessica is stronger and Luke is tougher.

And in the comics Luke went from a few tons to the Thing level.


Hey, remember when this thread was about the defenders?


But all we are talking about is defender related? well except for the buffy tangent.

Silver Crusade

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That'd do it, ya got Whedon in his Marvel.


Ah right. he has a thing about that.

Silver Crusade

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What, hating Whedon? That's not really unique to him.


Rysky wrote:
What, hating Whedon? That's not really unique to him.

Yeah, but Freehold's kind of a special case.

Silver Crusade

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thejeff wrote:
Rysky wrote:
What, hating Whedon? That's not really unique to him.
Yeah, but Freehold's kind of a special case.

Yeah, he's kinda tame about it.


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Rysky wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Rysky wrote:
What, hating Whedon? That's not really unique to him.
Yeah, but Freehold's kind of a special case.
Yeah, he's kinda tame about it.

o.O


DM Beckett wrote:


Dragons and a magical city shouldn't be that unbelievable, and Matt could have simply added in a "Um, guys, he is either not lying or he can beat my magic lie-detector".

Or third and by far most believable option.... "Guys, this guy is completely insane (even been commited) and absolutely believes he fought a dragon. Anybody REALLY want to trust the crazy guy who believes he fought a dragon??

Magic lie detector doesn't count if the dude's crazy.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Was it a Smaug-type dragon with a (not-so) secret weak spot for his glowy fist to hit? Once. Since he seems to need a Long Rest after each use of his magic glowy fist.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

He fought the dragon before he got the glowy fist power--in fact, that's how he got the glowy fist power: beating the dragon.

The dragon did have a weak point though, which allowed Danny to win using the power of hugs.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

He fought the dragon before he got the glowy fist power--in fact, that's how he got the glowy fist power: beating the dragon.

The dragon did have a weak point though, which allowed Danny to win using the power of hugs.

The more you know!

***star making a rainbow***

:-D


You wonder how great it would be if daredevil hooks them up with his suit guy?

Danny would probably just really like the cool shiny colors and the team.

Jessica seems like she almost gets injured as much as daredevil.

And Luke Cage can stop complaining about buying new shirts.


Also, thinking about it in Jessica Jones she pinned Luke Cage's arm behind his back pretty easily. When he got kilgraved, if she didn't care about him he probably would have died.

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