[PFS] Alchemist bomb damage and deliquescent gloves


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

I am building a grenadier alchemist for PFS, and wondering how deliquescent gloves work with my abilities.

I understand that it will allow me to add 1d6 acid damage via the corrosive ability to weapons I hold in my hands. For bombs, does this still work? They are treated as weapons so is there a reason they cannot gain the ability? If they can, does it affect the bomb's splash damage?

Can I add the corrosive ability to alchemical splash weapons I throw?

Finally, if I infuse a weapon with an alchemical splash weapon as per the Alchemical Weapon ability, can the weapon gain the corrosive bonus damage twice, once for the weapon itself and once for the alchemical splash weapon infused on it?

Liberty's Edge

PRD wrote:
. If the wearer uses that hand to wield a weapon or make an attack with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, that attack gains the corrosive weapon special ability.

You aren't wielding your bombs with your hand when they hit.

Silver Crusade

LINK, for reference.

It's tough to say if Bombs are "wielded".

I'd err on the safe side and not attempt it.

Sovereign Court

Bombs are considered weapons. It is in the rules text for Bombs.

Would you allow a quick-drawn thrown weapon, say a dagger, to gain the corrosive from the gloves?

If yes, why are bombs different?

However, you may find some table variation in PFS as evidenced by this thread. For me, its a weapon, and mechanics relating to weapons apply.

Silver Crusade

"Wielding" is different, though.

Of course Bombs are weapons.

But so are Kinetic Blasts.

Neither are "wielded".

EDIT: same for Rays.

Sovereign Court

I disagree.

Kinetic Blast says "Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus. The kineticist is never considered to be wielding ...". Specifically calling out that it is a weapon only for the purposes of weapon feats, and that you specifically are never wielding it.
Bombs don't have that language. Simply, "Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus." So in addition to being considered weapons, you can also choose them for feats. Not specifically a weapon for feats only.

Rays, well I'd have to look up whatever is the current FAQ.

Silver Crusade

The Kinetic Blast language is much newer than the language of Bombs.

"Wielding" was not controversial when the APG was released.

Back then, Developers and Forum posters had a much more intuitive understanding of the game.

As interpretations have leaned more towards hyperliteralization, the Developers have needed to address perceived loopholes.

Many other newer sources have had to go into greater detail to clarify how they work. That doesn't change the rules for past abilities.

Liberty's Edge

AFAIK wield in hand mean wield in hand, not throw or fire.
So a deliquescent glove will not give give its bonus to a throw weapon, to a arrow fired from a bow or a throw alchemist bomb.


I personally would say it does.

Though I'd always wondered if it did work. if it would apply to the bow/gun, and bomb as well if you used explossive missle.

but that only applies if your in the group who thinks it does apply.

Liberty's Edge

Good to know I wasn't the only one confused as to how this works.

By the writing, the attack gains the property, so it looks like the bomb attack or the Explosive missile would gain 1d6 acid damage, but I don't think I can stack the acid damage to get multiple damage dice.

With this much debate, however, I am pretty sure I don't want to run this at a PFS table, since I am unsure what the result would be.

Thanks for all the input.


According to the new FAQ, most effects/spells/feats that include the word 'weapon' use it as shorthand for 'manufactured weapon', especially when words like 'wield a weapon' are used. A bomb would not be considered a manufactured weapon.

Sovereign Court

So when bomb says "considered a weapon" the FAQ says to treat it like "considered a manufacturer weapon" then?

Ok how about two weapon fighting? You are required to weild weapons for two weapon fighting. We have a FAQ saying that you can two weapon fight with thrown bombs, assuming fast bombs.
Same for rapid shot, refers to a ranged weapon but we have a FAQ saying "of course you can".


Read the FAQ. It attempts to demarcate when things qualify and when they don't.

Bombs are a SU ability. What makes you think they can be effectively coated with acid? Do you think you could add poison to a bomb?

Liberty's Edge

Well, as to how the bombs get coated with acid, I would say magic. Since, you know, magic gloves. Not that magic is a good enough reason, but in this case, it would be the answer.

Can you link the FAQ for reference?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Irwin, the Gnome wrote:

"Wielding" is different, though.

Of course Bombs are weapons.

But so are Kinetic Blasts.

Neither are "wielded".

EDIT: same for Rays.

+1

However, it doesn't matter. The item description says unarmed strikes, natural attacks, and wielded weapons. They gain the acid damage from the ooze creeping out from the gloves. It never mentions thrown or missle weapons.

I can't coat a weapon and hand it off to someone to give them a damage boost.

The ooze doesn't leave your body, so you can't throw it or shoot it.


Weapon's FAQ

It's rather lengthy, but I'll excerpt the relevant bits:

Quote:

In the same vein as abilities like Arcane Strike that affect a character’s weapons, abilities that say “with a weapon,” “with a melee weapon,” and “with a ranged weapon” almost never work with special abilities because such wording is almost always used as shorthand for “manufactured weapon,” “manufactured melee weapon,” and “manufactured ranged weapon.” The exception is abilities that deal damage when a creature touches or hits you in melee (for instance, the occultis’s energy ward focus power), which should also deal damage when a creature makes a melee touch attack against you but rarely call them out directly.

Certain special abilities (for instance rays, kinetic blasts, and mystic bolts) can specifically be selected with feats like Weapon Focus and Improved Critical. They still aren’t considered a type of weapon for other rules; they are not part of any weapon group and don’t qualify for the effects of fighter weapon training, warpriest sacred weapon, magus arcane pool, paladin divine bond, or any other such ability.

So, 'bombs' are not part of any weapon group, they don't have a size (S, M, L) or a size (light, one-handed, two-handed). They are not manufactured weapons, they are an SU special ability like the kinetic blasts listed above which allow certain feats like Weapon Focus.


If you want your bombs to deal acid damage, there's the acid bomb discovery, ya now.

Beside that I follow Irwin and Blake's Tiger in the school of thought that mixing and throwing in a hurry is not 'wielding'.

Liberty's Edge

Klorox, it was less dealing acid damage and more adding 1d6 to bomb damage via an item that I wanted.

_Ozy_, thanks for the link. That is both clear, and saddening.

Finally, and related to my character but slightly off topic for the original post, if I fire a dye arrow (ranged touch, no damage) from a corrosive bow, the arrow gains the corrosive ability. Can an arrow that deals no damage gain bonus damage? I think no, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.


Prettty sure it would actually.
The arrow itself deals no damage, i.e. no str or dice bonus.
but any outside riders should still work... Like Explosive missile discovery should still work as well. As any contact poisons you apply.

Well I think anyway

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