2-4D Lamia Cultist

Pathfinder Adventure Card Society

The henchwoman has these powers:

Lamia Cultist wrote:

Before you act, succeed at a Wisdom or Perception 9 check or the Lamia Cultist deals you 1d4-1 Ranged Combat damage.

After you act, if the Lamia Cultist dealt damage to you, bury the top card of your discard pile.

Class deck Sajan has the powers:

Sajan wrote:
□ Reduce Combat damage dealt to you by 1 (□ 3).

I have both powers checked.

Clearly I don't discard any cards from the BYA, even if I fail the check and roll a 4-1 for damage.

But, in this situation, do I bury the top card of my discard pile? She did deal me damage, but I reduced it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Damage dealt to you was reduced to 0. Therefore, no damage was actually dealt.

That makes sense. The people I play with said the same (and essentially "Isn't that obvious?")

We've seen powers that say "If you discarded any cards" and "If that damage is not reduced to 0", so I wondered.

I think there is ample room for misinterpretation.

Venture-Lieutenant, Online—ACG aka Hawkmoon269

Mike discussed this here. As he points out his opinion is unofficial, but his last update was that, you are indeed being dealt damage even when it is reduced to 0.

That essentially makes the AYA power "If you rolled anything besides a 1 (or didn't have something to ignore BYA powers) bury the top card of your discard pile."

I'm not sure that was really envisioned though.

Whoa is that an old thread. Your thread-mining is amazing.

Hmmm. I guess the answer isn't as clear as I thought.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I guess we need a definition of the word "Dealt" now.

What if you roll a 1 on your 1d4? Are you "Dealt" zero damage, requiring you to bury a card? If not, then I'd wonder how we're supposed to know that reducing "dealt" damage to 0 is different from not being "dealt" any damage? So we need to differentiate between "dealt" and "applied" or some such?

I guess we need to know if the damage dealt is dealt before or after it's reduced.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

For me the "non official" historical ruling by Not-this-Mike is really clear.

If something would deal BEFORE reduction 0 damage, it actually DOESN'T deal damage.
If something would deal BEFORE reduction damage >0, it actually DOES deal damage, even if later reduced to 0.

A d4-1 die of damage isn't a d4 damage reduced by 1, it's a dice that has 75% chance to deal damage (in which case the damage is 1, 2 or 3 with equal odds).

I'm going to bring in Heroclix rules here, although it's a separate game entirely, and I'm really just restating what other people have said.

If you are DEALT damage, it hits you. (0 damage is still a hit (in Heroclix, this is important))
If you can't reduce any of it, you TAKE damage.
If you can reduce the damage (or decrease, hello fancy horse armor from Wrath), you don't TAKE any damage, but you were still DEALT the damage.

It's tricky wording, but it's important. If we're supposed to bury the top card of your discard pile whether we were dealt 0 damage or 3 damage, I think it would combine the two somehow (the Wisdom/Perception Check and the combat damage/undefeated).

I was about to say I am on the zero damage doesn't count side, but now I'm in the middle. Gosh dang it.

Can something deal 0 damage? O_O

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Is this music?

My intuition about PACG is being dealt 0 damage in this game is not being dealt damage. We don't have the concept of being hit.

What I'm not clear about is whether powers that trigger when you are dealt damage should trigger if you reduce the damage to 0.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

The damage rules (and many cards) rely on you being dealt damage before you can reduce it. ("When you are dealt damage, you and other characters may play only cards and use only powers that reduce or otherwise affect the specific type of damage you’re being dealt.") So if you are dealt damage, even if you then reduce it to zero, you were dealt damage. But we realize that this is hair-splitting complexity, and rather than build rules structure to support that distinction, we should make sure that cards like Lamia Cultist don't actually care whether you were dealt damage—they should care only if you discarded cards as damage, thus sidestepping all the potential complexity.

We will update the Lamia Cultist to say "After you act, if you discarded any cards as damage from the Lamia Cultist, bury the top card of your discard pile."

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I LOVE this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it!

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