The Court and Justice System


Advice


Hello!

On our recent session, the PCs managed to haul a treatcherous murderer back to town. The mayor promised them that the man would undergo a trial and suddenly they want to be a part of it.

That being said, I would like to ask you for any advice on how legal issues are usually resolved in the small towns of Golarion? Does anyone have a link to an article or rulebook segment on that matter? Is it common to hold trial by combat? Public executions?

Anything helps really, I appreciate any advice or opinion :)

Thanks!


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

What region of Golarion ? I'm sure Cheliax does it differently from Galt.


They are currently in Sandpoint (Varisia)


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

I believe Magnimar holds jurisdiction over Sandpoint, so this article might be applicable.

Sandpoint's Mayor's entry lists one of her posts as "Judge".


Well, your obviously going to need a sleazy lawyer antagonist. Staple of the genre as it were.

Sovereign Court

Also - what does the group look like? Are they a known quantity to the mayor/judge? If so, and they have a good reputation (especially with a paladin) then they can pretty much testify, the judge will believe them, and it's over.


It could be a good opportunity to build an interest in the town, and a relationship between the group and the mayor.

Perhaps have a sleazy lawyer show up, as has been suggested elsewhere, who brings forward a bunch of 'evidence' to discredit the heroes as witnesses and establish an alibi for the criminal. Then you can cast the Mayor as the fair and even handed judge, who shows no preference for either side, but rules in a manner consistent with the evidence and with a healthy dose of common sense and practicality. If things go well, the group will be annoyed by the sleazy lawyer, but impressed by the mayor, and perhaps appreciative of her authority.


Unless someone shows up to defend the accused the PCs testify, the defendant testifies, and the judge rules based on the testimonial. It helps if the judge has a good sense motive to know if they're being lied to. If the PCs are well known and respected its likely they are just believed and testimonial from the defendant wont due any good.

Also, with it being a small town its unlikely there are any unscrupulous barristers traveling through town at the time,and any unscrupulous barristers who live in Sandpoint are probably already known throughout the legal system. This is just my opinion/conjecture but I think it's probably true. In scenarios like this it's usually a pretty open and shut case.


Crime & Punishment by Keith Baker might be of use here...


In medieval-style systems, it's probably less about sleazy lawyers and jury-trials as it is magistrate/judge nobles and local influence-peddling.

In place of a sleazy lawyer, shadowy supporters among the local gentry may well be the way that a criminal escapes justice. There can be whole chains of blackmail and skullduggery involved. Maybe a powerful noble hired the accused to kill a rival or even an uppity peasant or 'uncooperative' maid, and is now being blackmailed by the accused over it (get me out of here, or I'll have no reason not to talk); maybe that noble has threatened the family of a judge or magistrate over it; and so on.


The short answer is that there is little formally written up to show how trials are resolved all over Golarion. As mentioned, the region will influence the outcome greatly. Cheliax would likely have complex legal processes with the mentioned "sleazy lawyers" all over; Korvosa, as an admirer of Cheliax, would likely try to have the same. Magnimar (and, by extension, Sandpoint), founded by people who rejected Korvosa's leanings toward Cheliax and its Diabolism, would likely insist on keeping things simpler (as mentioned up thread).

So... Ultimate Intrigue adds "Social Combat" and "Verbal Duels" to the repertoire of the game. One use specifically mentioned for "Verbal Duels" is pleading court cases.

The Downtime rules in Ultimate Campaign include Capital resources (gold, Goods, Influence, Labor, and Magic), which can be spent to add modifiers to rolls (such as rolls in pleading court cases). PCs may balk at using Influence or Gold to alter the course of the trial, but they may want to use them to block external forces trying to do that.

Crime & Punishment is a decent book. I found it a little too "modern" in its approaches for my tastes (not too surprising since Keith Baker also was the creator of Eberron, which I also found to be more modern-style than I like), but if you're looking to replicate police- or trial- procedural shows like Law & Order or CSI, it can help.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Cavaliers have a circuit judge archetype in path of the hellknight. That's something slightly relevant I guess.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

If a warrant with a bounty was put out Dead or Alive, he's already probably been tried without his testimony and sentenced. Trials in ye olde times, usually just took the guard's word for it and will maybe hear what the defendant has to say if it isn't a crazy crime.

Basically, real trials were mostly only held for nobles and big people, otherwise it was usually execution or banishment as the crime. Jailing was too expensive. usually it was banishment.

Obviously for lesser crimes simple recompense was made due. like indentured servitude and what not.

crimes and such in the old times didn't go as they would today where a trial was only worth it if you could fine out of them more coin than it cost to get the judge to do the court, or it was something where banishment was a possible punishment.

banishment also being if they're seen again, they're just supposed to be killed.


Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and advice, really much appreciated! I reckon I will be able to mold all of them together into a decent experience for the PCs :)


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The Law

Kendra Deverin has served as Sandpoint’s mayor for the past eight years. Lawmaker, judge, and general peacemaker, Deverin has proven to be both an adept diplomat and stern hand when need be—skills likely honed during her youth in Magnimar and adventuring in the region. With a personal—some say sisterly— style of governing, Kendra holds the abiding respect of most of Sandpoint’s people, charming them with her fiery temper and tenacity for justice (as demonstrated during the Late Unpleasantness). A council of several of the town’s most respected and affluent landowners aids Deverin’s work. While several councilmembers have their own agendas and visions for the town, the mayor’s no-nonsense attitude assures that council decisions ever work toward the common good.

Meting out the town’s good justice, sheriff and councilmember Belor Hemlock keeps watch over Sandpoint’s people. Held as something of a local hero, Hemlock is lauded with being the man who brought the serial killer, Chopper, to justice. Although rarely faced with misconduct more severe than vandalism and public drunkenness, the sheriff is both a keen wit and a skilled swordsman, and openly proves both when the rare crime requires it. While the town’s chief enforcer, Hemlock knows the difference between the word of the law and its intent, and often gives those under his protection the benefit of the doubt.

Their sheriff’s work aside, Sandpoint’s people realize they must often fend for and defend themselves, especially on the outlying farms. In the rarest and most extreme cases— and even then thoroughly discouraged—mob justice is sometimes all that satisfies the outraged people.

from here.

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