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As the title say, some people think it is not necessary to maintain a grapple to be able to rake or use other abilities that require you to have a grapple to use them if they are a free action.
There are a few example in that thread.
Who agree with that?
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If you don't have a grapple maintained then you lose your eligibility to apply any mechanic that has this as a prerequisite.
Very long topic title.
I think maintaining grapple is, or at least should be, a prerequisite to using such abilities.
Deigo you should probably have explained both sides of the issue, and then bolded your FAQ question to make it clear.
Being able to see the logic behind a question makes it easier to answer.
PS: I understand where this is coming from, but by the time the PDT gets around to it they may not know not.
As text says, you can make two free attacks "In addition to the options available to all grapplers". Release a grapple is an option available to all grapplers, so by the rules, you can do rake-release-full attack.
I think that should be revised. In my games, the rake ability is triggered when you succeed on the check to maintain the grab.
I think as written it is pretty clear that the options are supposed to descibe the stuff you can do after you maintained the grapple.
Fortunately the GM is explicitely allowed to limit free actions, so if a player tried to pull the "RAW" card on me I would simply rule that he couldn't use both the free action to attack and the free action to release the grapple. Problem solved.
Fun fact: Even if you allowed someone to rake, release and then full-attack he couldn't initiatite a new grapple during that attack. Using rake and beginning a grapple in the same turn is not allowed.
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It's not really clear. I allow Rake-Release-Full Attack because that's what's written.
FTFY
I agree with ShielLawrence in that rake doesn't say on a successsful maintain grapple check. It's saying that it gets two free claw attacks against foes it was in a grapple with at the start of it's turn. Nothing in that says it has to maintain the grapple first or even try to maintain the grapple afterwards.
But I agree with the OP that things that say done when you maintain a grapple would need to maintain a grapple first.
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A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature's description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can't begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.
I do agree it's ambiguous as to whether it's done as part of maintaining a grapple or not, but there's a lot more at play here than simply using rake. For example, maintaining a grapple only lets you attack with a single natural weapon. Rake usually involves two (or more) natural weapons, and the Rake ability says you take them for free against a grappled foe, with the restriction that rake can't be used in the same turn that a foe receives the grappled condition (sans Pounce, of course).
It's safe to say that rake isn't required as part of maintaining the grapple, especially if we go with the interpretation that maintaining the grapple only allows a single natural attack, period. So it's more likely that it's just free attacks made while you have an enemy afflicted with the Grappled condition.
** spoiler omitted **
As text says, you can make two free attacks "In addition to the options available to all grapplers". Release a grapple is an option available to all grapplers, so by the rules, you can do rake-release-full attack.
I think that should be revised. In my games, the rake ability is triggered when you succeed on the check to maintain the grab.
When you have someone in a grapple you have the following options.
1. Release, that ends all grapple related discussions and takes you elsewhere.
2. Do damage with grappling, apply grapple check and do damage if check succeeds.
3. Pin the opponent with another check.
4. Rake is an additional bonus option if you take options 2 or 3.
** spoiler omitted **
As text says, you can make two free attacks "In addition to the options available to all grapplers". Release a grapple is an option available to all grapplers, so by the rules, you can do rake-release-full attack.
I think that should be revised. In my games, the rake ability is triggered when you succeed on the check to maintain the grab.When you have someone in a grapple you have the following options.
1. Release, that ends all grapple related discussions and takes you elsewhere.
2. Do damage with grappling, apply grapple check and do damage if check succeeds.
3. Pin the opponent with another check.
4. Rake is an additional bonus option if you take options 2 or 3.
Why does rake have to happen after 2 or 3? They are free attacks. Even if I was planning on maintaining the grapple I'd want to do the rake attacks first since I started the round in a grapple I get to make them and doing them after a maintain grapple check could not happen if I fail the roll.