I'm playing Siwar the Bard in our Organized Play group, and as I was going through the spells in my class deck, I was surprised to find raise dead among them.
Dying isn't a very likely possibility in the PACG (especially in the later adventures when raise dead finally becomes available). Logically, instant death effects can't exist because the designers can't be certain a particular group will have access to the needed remedy. This leaves a gradual depletion of health as the only other cause of death, and that is easily solved by having access to healing effects, or simply letting time run out and starting over in a worst-case situation.
Since there is no penalty in failing a scenario, I am curious as to why raise dead was included in the Bard and Cleric Class Decks over more useful spells, especially given the limited number of spells available?
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Healing effects won't always save someone, especially if everyone has taken a hefty amount of damage, considering group-wide damage effects. Also, Paizo is probably hoping people will actually play instead of saying "Crap, someone's almost dead... alright noone do anything whatsoever for the next 14 turns".
I can only assume you haven't seen the later adventures, so how do you know what is going to be coming? Death may be a very real possibility. Organized Play is not meant for beginners, so I'd say it's a safe guess people are going to struggle. The ability to let the timer run out, to me, is not a reason to consider for anything at all in development. The game should be built based on people playing, not giving up.
Logically, instant death effects can't exist because the designers can't be certain a particular group will have access to the needed remedy.
Not a safe assumption, I'm afraid.
Not a safe assumption, I'm afraid.
I stand corrected. :-)
It's nice to see that the class decks were designed just as carefully as the base set, and that the design team wasn't afraid to increase the risks since Rise of the Runelords.
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Logically, instant death effects can't exist because the designers can't be certain a particular group will have access to the needed remedy.Not a safe assumption, I'm afraid.
Oddly, that makes me happy. It's a true reflection of any RPG. If you don't have the right party, you will fail. Maybe even die.
I've always found Raise Dead to be almost completely useless until someone dies. Then it is very useful.
Interestingly, I just read a forum post about not liking instant death effects in PFS-RPG and the ease that the poster saw in being able to bring your character back from the dead. From what I gather, you can pay a penalty to revive you character (it seems like this is done between games, not during games). No such problem in the card guild. If you die and no one raises you before the scenario ends, you stay dead.
It will be interesting to see what comes. Will there really be "instant death" effects the equivalent of "When you encounter a henchman, choose a random character. Roll a d6, on a 1 that character dies." Or will it be more that you can be dealt a lot of damage in a short period of time? Very, very interesting.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Also with the amount of sudden burying of cards form your deck in the S&S set, there is a slight risk of sudden unexpected death. I died at Gen Con because I thought I was safe (had 3 cards left in deck, but had an armor I could bury to prevent damage) and I found a Vine Creeper who hit my deck for 4 cards of bury - boom done. It was my last turn too. Didn't even realize those kinds of monsters existed before that - hadn't really had time to look through the set yet.
AD2 definitely had a scenario where Freiya came out of it having buried like 7 cards and Lem lost both his cures to bad recharge rolls (even though I almost always recharge a card to recharge cure :/). By the end Freiya only had 6 cards left in her deck and we had to play the last couple turns very carefully to make sure she didn't spend any (but she sure recharged a bunch!)
Still squeaked out a win!
I also noticed that "bury" effects seem more prevalent and deadlier than in Rise of the Runelords. For example, the ivory dice from the Bard Class Deck make you bury 3 cards from your hand if you guess incorrectly -- harsh for a B set item!
If that is the case, I wonder if Adventure 5 is not a bit too late to offer a solution to this looming threat. Including some kind of restoration effect -- enabling you to recover buried cards -- in Adventure 3 or 4 would have been nice. Perhaps there will be locations (or even ships!) that will provide some relief in that regard?
There are locations (in both RotR and S&S) that allow you to recover buried cards, but since some cards that are buried to play are usually quite powerful, anything that lets you recover buried cards has to be either very rare or have a way to limit which cards you can recover.
Holy Candle, for instance, if allowed to be played more than once a scenario can be amazingly overpowered. My wife and I actually managed this once during RotR with the location that lets you add buried cards to your hand when permanently closed. She actually recovered both Holy Candled and Revelation Quill, so they both got played twice that scenario.
The location in Skull and Shackles that lets your recover buried cards only applies to allies, and while there are some powerful powers on some allies that are buried to play, it is mostly that way because you are required to bury allies while at that location.
Once you've got Raise Dead in your deck, you can sell life insurance policies. First choice of upgrade cards seems reasonable since you've wasted a high-level spell slot that is no use to yourself.
At least some characters can discard, recharge or reveal divine spells for useful effects, but none seem to take advantage of the deck number.
Once you've got Raise Dead in your deck, you can sell life insurance policies. First choice of upgrade cards seems reasonable since you've wasted a high-level spell slot that is no use to yourself.
You are probably just joking, but just in case, bargaining help in play for upgrade choice is definitely not something I would want to encourage. Your benefit to using raise dead is that you have that character back in the mix to help finish the scenario, and knowing that they have helped you get this far.
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Once you've got Raise Dead in your deck, you can sell life insurance policies. First choice of upgrade cards seems reasonable since you've wasted a high-level spell slot that is no use to yourself.You are probably just joking, but just in case, bargaining help in play for upgrade choice is definitely not something I would want to encourage. Your benefit to using raise dead is that you have that character back in the mix to help finish the scenario, and knowing that they have helped you get this far.
Agree completely. Now, if you wanted to offer your necromancy services in exchange for them buying your lunch, go ahead.
You are probably just joking, but just in case, bargaining help in play for upgrade choice is definitely not something I would want to encourage. Your benefit to using raise dead is that you have that character back in the mix to help finish the scenario, and knowing that they have helped you get this far.
Once the Linis unionized, demanding compensation* for Raise Dead and Mass Cure became mandatory.** Other characters just slow Lini down and solo Lini can't use either of these cards, making decent spells few and far between; thus other characters need to make reparations.
*: AKA, the 'death tax'.
**: You don't want animals holding a strike beside your game, do you?
Keep in mind they could always have it be something that is based off the number of players. Like if henchman #4 was instant death, you wouldn't see that without there being 5 players.
And we don't really know what Mike actually meant by "instant death". It might be a card that says "Do X or you die." Or it might just be something that will put you on the verge of death, like "Reset your hand. Then bury your character deck."
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Given the severe penalties for character death, I find the idea that one bad card can kill you outright, troubling.
How about
Reveal this card. Pick a target character. That character draws random cards from her buried cards until she reaches her hand size. Banish this card if you don't have the Divine skill, otherwise bury this card.
Doesn't require anyone to die to use. If you have two of them you can try to cycle them.
Next up, undead characters.
Choose a dead character at your location. Use your Arcane die to determine how many cards to randomly take from that character's buried pile and shuffle into their deck.
Undead characters are immune to cards with the healing, mental and poison traits. The do not die when failing to draw cards from their deck unless their hand is also empty. After an adventure, use only cards from hand and discard pile to rebuild an undead character's deck. Raise Dead restores undead characters to normal.
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I was thinking of this question today since I'm playing Lem and was wondering if Raise Dead would eventually be worth taking a spot in my deck.
In S&S I'm guessing from the responses that it would be useless, but I'm guessing it will be more valuable in Wrath. Problem is it might take some characters to die before we know for sure.
Well there is that one villain in the Wrath B set... whether or not it'll show up in OP is anyone's guess though.
Tanis is a bit more evil than I am, but I'll at least say that I'd never design a campaign* that _required_ Raise Dead.
That said, I'd certainly _hope_ that the potential (rather than the guarantee) of death existed, such that Raise Dead was, as Hawkmoon said, "very useful".
With some of the later banes in Wrath, even with gloves on the chance exists. And I'm pretty sure OP is supposed to be gloves off. I'd certainly feel a lot safer with a Mythic Hierophant in the party at least.
* I have designed campaigns where you died. A lot. Usually there's at least some way out / back, though.
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I always look at the Raise Dead spell as a safeguard and not a mainstay in a deck. If your character can cycle or use Divine spells for something else, and you have the spell card slot available, then sure. Why not. But if you're wondering weather to keep a card like that in your deck if spells are simply spells, maybe not. It's a powerful card but spell card slots are a limited resource.
It's a tough sell, but I could see taking it on Lem; after all, I expect to recharge half my hand most turns anyways. It can look like whatever it wants.
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I am considering Raise Dead for my WotR Kyra, since I'll have plenty of spells and I can always recharge it to blast a demon or undead.
This. Though I was planning to have one in my deck anyway, because I'd rather have one and not need it than not have one and need it. Though mythic hierophant lessens the need for it a bit.
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It's a tough sell, but I could see taking it on Lem; after all, I expect to recharge half my hand most turns anyways. It can look like whatever it wants.
In the cases of RoTR or CD Lem, he can always exchange for a more useful spell currently in his discard pile. And if it is needed, it's probably still easily accessible in his discard pile, via the same discard power.
(Really now, if Paul doesn't pick Lem for his Best Character Ever, I may have to write up my own post in protest :P)
Yep, Lem is awesome like that.
It's up to Paul to pick who he wants to pick :) I can say that Lem wasn't even an option for me, since I was picking my favorite Wrath character (not overall), since we were also previewing Wrath :)
The real thing that the favorite character blog has shown is that our favorite characters are not necessarily the most effective characters overall. Or only in certain party makeups. Or even all the time in their set; after all, Enora is scary to use in Wrath-B, but take her into RotR and S&S and she's Queen of the World.