Shotgun and ranged spellstrike


Rules Questions


How does the Eldritch Archer Magus' Ranged Spellstrike ability interact with a weapon that requires multiple simultaneous attack rolls per attack, such as a scatter attack with a shotgun loaded with pellets, ?

EDIT: In a similar vein, what about a firearm with the automatic property or a technological weapon that affects a line.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Sounds like a whole lot of "Ask your GM" questions to me, but I'll admit I didn't look up the referenced abilities as I assumed they had some ambiguity.


James Risner wrote:
Sounds like a whole lot of "Ask your GM" questions to me, but I'll admit I didn't look up the referenced abilities as I assumed they had some ambiguity.

The question isn't just for my own game, but for homebrew rules that I intend to release to others at some point. I just phrased the question in terms of 1st party material because the homebrew rules would operate identically to 1st party material in this context. Shotgun spread attacks in particular are something that I expect to be used much more often, and this sort of question is very likely to pop up.

Hence "ask your GM" isn't actually that helpful since I am currently the GM, and if I release it to others then the GM becomes whoever uses the rules. Leaving massive gaps in my own rules is not something I am particularly keen on, so I am trying to find out if I need to do (more) patchwork for an issue in the core rules.


I assume the question is whether a scattergun spell-strike pushes the borders of Single Target to Multi-target. Flavorwise the scattergun doesn't really fit with the idea of focusing the spell through the attack, since the attack isn't really focused.

Shadow Lodge

I am less familiar with the Eldritch Archer version, but it does work with the Myrmidarch version. Well, yes an no. I've had a character using this for several years now.

Yes, you can imbue your shot with your spell. You still have the limits for spells of only tagging one instance of the spell per shot, that shot just happens to hit everyone in a 15' cone. Because the wording of the ability did not factor for this concept, it works and the spell hits everyone in the cone.

Keep in mind that you have ranged spellstrike, but not ranged spellcombat. Trying to cast and do normal attacks in the same round has problems (unless the archer changes that too).

You might have free-hand problems. This is why mine mainly uses a dragon pistol instead (one-handed shotgun).

My character is used in PFS, where he is subject to many GM's. Given how much of a corner case the rules for it are, I will explain it to the GM and pretty much accept any ruling they give me for it - I know it's questionable. Most agree with my interpretation. Some will instead say that you hit everyone in the cone, but the spell only affects one target in the cone. None have decided that spellstrike fails entirely.

While it seems like a great plan, getting multiple targets in a 15' cone is actually rather rare, especially at higher levels. The real benefit of the build, even if the spell only goes to one target, is that you ignore concealment. You know the target's somewhere that direction? Shoot a cone over there.

My magus focused on Frigid Touch. Took a trait so metamagic didn't hurt so much. Originally he applied the Reach metamagic to it, but then the Reach Arcana came out and he retrained to use that instead, and now adds Rime to the spell. Having multiple targets all staggered for 1 round and Entangled for 2 is nice.

The best weapon enhancement (after dealing with misfire mitigation) is Limning. Everyone you hit gets Fairy Fire for a round. See above about ignoring concealment - now everyone can see them. Could instead spend a bit more for Glitterwake and have it last longer.


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I think this is the the important bit in regards to this question.

The Important Bit:
If the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies each attack; if the spell allows multiple attacks and the eldritch archer can make additional ranged attacks as part of a full-round action with spell combat, one additional ray, missile, or effect from the spell accompanies each subsequent ranged attack the eldritch archer makes in the same round until all attacks allowed by the spell are made. Unused missiles, rays, or effects remaining at the end of the eldritch archer's turn are wasted.

I believe if you cast a spell like Scorching Ray, and get four rays, and fire a cone at four targets, each target will get hit by one ray. But if you cast a spell that only targets one creature normally, the spell will only affect one creature in the cone, the rest will just get hit by bullets.

I don't believe using a scatter weapon will let you get more magical bang for your buck.

And since nobody above me read the abilities:

Ranged Spell Combat:
Instead of a light or one-handed melee weapon, an eldritch archer must use a ranged weapon for spell combat. She doesn't need a free hand for ranged spell combat. The eldritch archer cannot accept an attack penalty to gain a bonus on concentration checks to cast a spell defensively.

This ability modifies spell combat.

Ranged Spellstrike:
At 2nd level, whenever an eldritch archer casts a spell that calls for a ranged attack, she can deliver the spell through a ranged weapon she wields as part of a ranged attack. Instead of the free ranged attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, an eldritch archer can make one free ranged attack with a ranged weapon (at her highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. The attack does not increase the spell's range.

If the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies each attack; if the spell allows multiple attacks and the eldritch archer can make additional ranged attacks as part of a full-round action with spell combat, one additional ray, missile, or effect from the spell accompanies each subsequent ranged attack the eldritch archer makes in the same round until all attacks allowed by the spell are made. Unused missiles, rays, or effects remaining at the end of the eldritch archer's turn are wasted.

This ability alters spellstrike.

Shadow Lodge

"If the spell can normally affect multiple targets" - it doesn't. Limit doesn't apply.

"If the spell allows multiple attacks" - it doesn't. Limit doesn't apply.

The archer having ranged spell combat as well helps a lot.


Tyinyk wrote:

I think this is the the important bit in regards to this question.

** spoiler omitted **

I believe if you cast a spell like Scorching Ray, and get four rays, and fire a cone at four targets, each target will get hit by one ray. But if you cast a spell that only targets one creature normally, the spell will only affect one creature in the cone, the rest will just get hit by bullets.

I don't believe using a scatter weapon will let you get more magical bang for your buck.

And since nobody above me read the abilities:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

Definitely this. The ability explicitly spells it out for you what spells you can have affect multiple creatures with any given number of attacks you could make, which is what a scatter weapon does to all creatures within its effect. So, you could scorching ray multiple targets with a scatter attack if your CL allows for multiple rays, but not a spell like Snowball, which would only target one creature in the cone.

I was reading up on this resently in fact so I could understand how these rules worked.

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