Tatterdemalion (Witch Archetype) Moth-Eaten (Sp) Ability


Advice

Liberty's Edge

I am looking at the Tatterdemalion. One stumbling block is that in place of the level 4 hex you have to take:

Moth-Eaten (Sp): At 4th level, a tatterdemalion can make a touch attack that damages leather, rope, or cloth like rusting grasp damages metal, once per day per witch level.

Keep in mind that rusting grasp does not work on any +1 etc magical metal. Just normal non magical metal.

So it is obvious that this ability is complete gimp. It is somewhat hilarious that they felt the need to limit the times per day you were using this pointless ability. If nothing else, that shows they are being extra cautious with archetypes now... I could be taking slumber, or evil eye, or misfortune, or cackle, but no...I am choosing to damage cloth/leather that is non-magical and so serves almost no gameplay purpose whatsoever.

I can see a once-in-a-blue-moon-point: The evil leader wants to escape on a rope. My witch (who is in the front-line because she has so many excellent defenses and high hit points) is right there and so dissolves the rope. The Big-Bad-Evil-Guy screams "Curse you, witch! If only you had not unwisely been on the frontlines so that you could dissolve my once-in-a-million-chance escape rope! I will fear Tatterdemalions forever!"

MY CHALLENGE TO THE POWERGAMERS:

Find some use for this ability that is reasonably frequent. I like the flavor of the archetype and would rather not have people laugh at me. So what uses does it have?

Edit: Seriously, this ability is Sp and so provokes? Was it really so powerful that it could not be Su? I really want to inhabit the mind of the dev who created this now. "Yeah, this ability is awesome!" There is no way it can be Su! We need to make it Sp, so that in addition to its limited uses, people get an AoO against us. After all, everyone fears their non-magical utterly pointless cloth disappearing.


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F+!& up the enemy's backpack. Didn't think to enchant that, did you?


Leather and cloth, not very frequent, unless you want to disrobe a pretentious noble for the sake of embarrassment. Rope... rope has its uses.

For starters, she can never be tied up by rope, which is what most people resort to first before they can get shackles prepared. Second, a fair number of structures in areas away from civilization are dependant on rope, such as tents and bridges. Being able to escape by withering the bonds tying her, destroying as much property as she can realistically get away with, and then fleeing across a rope bridge, causing it to decay and collapse the moment she's across, can be very devious.

...of course, all this sounds like NPC stuff, but that's how Paizo mostly treats witches anyways.


The thing is, a rope bridge is already pretty damn easy to destroy with a sword.

It should be an at-will ability, really.

Lantern Lodge

Dissolving the saddle as a cavalier ride-by-attacks you?


Jayson MF Kip wrote:
Dissolving the saddle as a cavalier ride-by-attacks you?

That involves being a Witch, the Cavalier not just passing by you with Reach, and more importantly having a chance to be hit by a charging lance.

I'd say you should use it against enemy spellcasters as you can sunder their spell component pouch with it. Sure it provokes but its against a spellcaster, they can't hurt you too much. Unless its a magus, and then you die. If you happen across a cloth golem you can hurt it (lol), can destroy cloth weapons (lol), and destroy non-magical cloth armor (lol) but since all of those provoke you're sort of screwed.

Except for this little line tucked away in one of the abilities: "She can control her clothing and cloth, rope, or woven fabric she wears in a manner otherwise identical to the prehensile hair hex."

That includes delivering touch attacks, so she can use this ability from a maximum range of 10ft. Which still gets her murdered by a cavalier but at least she is in range to use the ability. Additionally, she can use the ability against folks without reach without provoking.

So yes, its main advantage is destroying spell component pouches, backpacks, rope ladders, non-magical rope gauntlets, and the badass leather longcoats everyone seems to wear.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks for the replies everyone...So I'll bite:

Targetting a spell component pouch is surely a called shot. Since it is at 10 ft range (i.e., with reach by clothing, not adjacent) the rules say it has a -2 penalty. In addition to this penalty, it has the normal called shot penalty. Do you think this additional penalty is like vitals (-5) or more like ear (-10)?

This would seemingly put me at a -7 or -12 penalty to the touch attack with my 1/2 BAB witch. Am I reading this correctly?

Note: Despite all of this, I am still interested in the archetype. :D A friend yesterday just asked me, "Why don't you just play a normal witch and take prehensile hair hex?"


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
nennafir wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone...So I'll bite:

Targetting a spell component pouch is surely a called shot. Since it is at 10 ft range (i.e., with reach by clothing, not adjacent) the rules say it has a -2 penalty. In addition to this penalty, it has the normal called shot penalty. Do you think this additional penalty is like vitals (-5) or more like ear (-10)?

This would seemingly put me at a -7 or -12 penalty to the touch attack with my 1/2 BAB witch. Am I reading this correctly?

Note: Despite all of this, I am still interested in the archetype. :D A friend yesterday just asked me, "Why don't you just play a normal witch and take prehensile hair hex?"

Why does a touch attack with reach have a -2? There's no range increment there, and it's not even a ranged attack. And I'm not sure it has to be a called shot any more than any other sunder attempt, especially since called shots is an optional rule that my everyone plays with.

Liberty's Edge

Ah, would be nice if didn't have all of those minuses!


Seems like it might be useful for destroying cold weather gear, although if you are in a fight the 1d6 per minute of extreme cold damage probably wont help too much.

Along the same lines as the spell component pouch, if the bad guy has a familiar satchel you could dust it.

It could be useful for a kingmaker campaign, sneak into an enemy army's camp and destroy all their non enchanted gear stores.

You would be an unholy terror in a pirate campaign, Sails-N'-Rope-Be-Gone inc.

I'm pretty sure there is a spell somewhere that lets you harden cloth to steel levels and use them as weapons (but doesn't actually give it a +1 i think).

I would never invite you to go bungee-jumping or rock climbing.


Yeah, its not a called shot anymore than a Sunder check is a called shot. If a martial with a feat can sunder a spell pouch without posing an AoO or a to hit penalty there is no reason your class ability won't work.

Liberty's Edge

ShroudedInLight wrote:
Yeah, its not a called shot anymore than a Sunder check is a called shot. If a martial with a feat can sunder a spell pouch without posing an AoO or a to hit penalty there is no reason your class ability won't work.

Great news!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I don't know...I like the idea of the Tatterdemalion archetype, but I'm pretty sure I could build the same character with the standard witch and the lightest of skinning.

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

It should be an at-will ability, really.

Except then every giggling 13-year-old would take the archetype and be using it constantly.


Which gets them arrested.


I'm late to the party, but what would really make this funny is either

A) you buff the range of "Dancing Strings" (EXTENDO ROPE!) or

B) you buff the range of prehensile hair hex (for touch attacks and Moth Eaten)

by simply being an Ratfolk and milking the "Favored Class" bonus.

"Ratfolk: Add +5 feet to the range of one hex with a range other than “touch.”

Lastly, isn't Dancing Strings only limited to the length of the rope? It says you can control it in a manner similar to prehensile hair, but doesn't necessarily say it's only 10 ft range like prehensile hair.

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