FAQ Question - Invisibility spell, attack and spell attack.


Rules Questions


Hello. I have some questions about spell "invisibility", so can you help with them ?

1. The first one is about attacking enemy, using splash weapon. Can i throw bombs, acid or alchemist fire under enemys legs. So i will damage him by splash weapon, but will i stay invisible, becase i "Causing harm indirectly is not an attack" ?
2. The second one is about, for exemple, "black tentacle" spell. Does this spell counts as "For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.". Because, actually, i am not attacking enemy with this spell. I am just summoning black tentacles and they attack enemy.
3. Third one is about Extraordinary Abilities and Supernatural Abilities, like evil eye, or Channel Energy. How can i know, these ability are not spells. So they are not "For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.". Will i stay invisible after using these abilitys ?
4. In "invisibility" spell said "Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character's perceptions." So can i attack neutral for me creatures, if they don't know about me, and still stay invisible, because i do not think that thay are my foes ?

P.S. If i have "slumber" hex. And it is works like "sleep" spell. It counts as spell or not ?


1. That still counts as an attack. It would be just like having someone in the area of a fireball. You are just having them in the area of a splash attack.

2. Black Tentacles are not a summoned creature. They are an AoE spell just like fireball that attacks by grappling and damage vs being instantaneous one time damage. That also breaks invis.

3. They are not spells, but they are still magical attacks on someone. They will break invis.

4. You are still attacking them, and them being neutral does not make them not your foe. As an example a tiger that is trying to eat is neutral, and is just doing what it does naturally. It is still your foe, even the tiger is just doing trying to feed itself, and does not have some evil plot.

SU's basically follow the same rules as spell with regard to targeting and many other things. It is something that should be stated better, but if you play in anyone's game that is familiar with the rules you wont get a free pass because you used the sleep hex vs the sleep spell.


wraithstrike wrote:

1. That still counts as an attack. It would be just like having someone in the area of a fireball. You are just having them in the area of a splash attack.

2. Black Tentacles are not a summoned creature. They are an AoE spell just like fireball that attacks by grappling and damage vs being instantaneous one time damage. That also breaks invis.

3. They are not spells, but they are still magical attacks on someone. They will break invis.

4. You are still attacking them, and them being neutral does not make them not your foe. As an example a tiger that is trying to eat is neutral, and is just doing what it does naturally. It is still your foe, even the tiger is just doing trying to feed itself, and does not have some evil plot.

SU's basically follow the same rules as spell with regard to targeting and many other things. It is something that should be stated better, but if you play in anyone's game that is familiar with the rules you wont get a free pass because you used the sleep hex vs the sleep spell.

1. Yes. This is attack. But i am not attacking a creature, i am attacking square under creatures legs. So i am not even doing attack roll against creature. So it looks like "Causing harm indirectly is not an attack." And i am not "The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature." And is it not like fireball, Because it is not a spell. I think, attack creature and deal damage to creature is 2 different things, because i can attack creature using grapple or trip combat maneuvers and not dealing damage.

2. It is AOE spell. Yes. But this spell "Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don't harm anyone." Spell itself do not damage. "Summoned" black tentacles attacking creatures in this area and damaging creatures.

3. Can you help me find wording about attacking with abilities? Because i read about attacking with Ranged, meele, natural attack. I read about spells (A spell is a one-time magical effect. Spells come in two types: arcane (cast by bards, sorcerers, and wizards) and divine (cast by clerics, druids, and experienced paladins and rangers). Some spellcasters select their spells from a limited list of spells known, while others have access to a wide variety of options.) and spells may count as attack. But about special abilities - nope. Even if it is magical, even if creature makes saving throw and taking damage, i can not found any wording, that it is attack.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

1) You're actively attacking the creature. You're not indirectly "cutting a rope to the bridge they're on", you're throwing an explosive at their feet.

2) The black tentacles are the spell. By your logic the little bead of fire that eventually explodes summoned by the fireball spell wouldn't break invisibility. It does.

3) "The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature." It doesn't differentiate between abilities and attacks, it only calls out spells that deal AoEs to inform you that yes, even if you're not specifically targeting the exact square an opponent is in or opponent themselves that the attack will still break invisibility.


1. Fireballs also don't attack people. You choose a point in space, but they break invisbility.

2. Once again black tentacles are not creatures. They are the result of a spell and it has an area effect.

black tentacles wrote:

Area 20-ft.-radius spread

summon monster wrote:

Effect one summoned creature

3. Just to be sure I understand you, are you saying that the medusa's ability to turn you to stone is not an attack because they are special abilities?

If so I can easily list special abilities that are also attacks.

jabborwock wrote:


Ranged 2 eye rays +29 touch (15d6 fire/19–20 plus burn)

Eye Rays (Su) The jabberwock can project beams of fire from its eyes as a ranged touch attack as a standard action, with a range increment of 60 feet. It projects two beams, and can target different creatures with these beams if it wishes as long as both targets are within 30 feet of each other. A creature that takes damage from an eye beam suffers burn.

As a more general answer.

Quote:
Special Attacks: The creature's special attacks. Full details for these attacks are given at the end of the stat block or in the universal monster rules section.

Here is a special attack

Medusa wrote:
Petrifying Gaze (Su) Turn to stone permanently, 30 feet, Fortitude DC 16 negates. The save DC is Charisma-based.

How do we know a gaze is an attack?

Quote:
Gaze (Su) A gaze special attack takes effect when foes look at the attacking creature's eyes. The attack can have any sort of effect: petrification, death, and charm are common

Some special attacks are extraordinary.

That is just an example to show you that special abilities are also attacks.


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Thank you about explaning these things. ^^

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