reyyvin |
This is for PFS...
My Paladin recently acquired a divine bond Animal Companion and I wanted to give it a bonus to the Fly skill. With limited options, I opted for a +2 intelligence Ioun stone. In addition to the skill ranks and +2 intelligence, it granted the beast an additional language.
This got me to wondering. The ioun stone grants it an additional lanaguage known. It obviously understand, but can it speak?
Due to PFS ruling on animal companions and speach, I'd initially think
"no,", but this is a magical effect.
What about other items like the Gold Nodule Ioun stone, which specifically grant an additional language?
For reference, the divine Bond is a Griffon (Monsterous mount feat), which is a Magical Beast. Plus, the character has the Celestial Servant feat (still a Magical Beast). By default, it can understand Common, but not speak it.
Or is "speak with animals" still the only way to communicate with an AC, no matter what?
Acedio |
Ah, unfortunately, you cannot have an ioun stone for an animal companion.
Relevant see a previous post about this topic.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But looks like you can get a refund at least!
EDIT: Hmm appears to be an interesting corner case, because it's a magical beast.
Flutter |
Sigurd Hausakljufr Thorfinnson |
Seeker of Secrets, page 43, "[Ioun stones] have no effect on animals, mindless constructs, and other non-sentient creatures."
PFS FAQ reads:
"'Can I improve my companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher and give it weapon feats?No. An Intelligence of 3 does not grant animals sentience, the ability to use weapons or tools, speak a language (though they may understand one with a rank in Linguistics; this does not grant literacy), or activate magic devices. Also note that raising an animal companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher does not eliminate the need to make Handle Animal checks to direct its actions; even semi-intelligent animals still act like animals unless trained not to. An animal with Intelligence of 3 or higher remains a creature of the animal type unless its type is specifically changed by another ability. An animal may learn 3 additional tricks per point of Intelligence above 2.'"
So it appears that familiars [outsiders and magical beasts] can use Ioun stones, animal companions cannot.
Quoted from the previously mentioned posts. It looks like the fact that his mount is a magical beast allows it to use them...
reyyvin |
Ah, unfortunately, you cannot have an ioun stone for an animal companion.
Relevant see a previous post about this topic.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But looks like you can get a refund at least!
EDIT: Hmm appears to be an interesting corner case, because it's a magical beast.
Actually, these are specifically allowed in the PFS FAQ, so their ability to be used is not at issue.
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq#v5748eaic9p51
one question that is worth asking... does "activating" an Ioun Stone mean just turning it on (floating around your head or slotting in a wayfinder) ... or does it also allow them to use ones that cast spells, like Vibrant Purple Prism (I think probably not).
**edit: lol, ninja'ed**
Finlanderboy |
This is for PFS...
My Paladin recently acquired a divine bond Animal Companion and I wanted to give it a bonus to the Fly skill. With limited options, I opted for a +2 intelligence Ioun stone. In addition to the skill ranks and +2 intelligence, it granted the beast an additional language.
This got me to wondering. The ioun stone grants it an additional lanaguage known. It obviously understand, but can it speak?
Due to PFS ruling on animal companions and speach, I'd initially think
"no,", but this is a magical effect.What about other items like the Gold Nodule Ioun stone, which specifically grant an additional language?
For reference, the divine Bond is a Griffon (Monsterous mount feat), which is a Magical Beast. Plus, the character has the Celestial Servant feat (still a Magical Beast). By default, it can understand Common, but not speak it.
Or is "speak with animals" still the only way to communicate with an AC, no matter what?
I believe you can teach the animal the language but it still can not speak it, just understand it.
There is a spell that magically gives animals the ability to speak though
nosig |
Tongues
School divination; Level bard 2, cleric 4, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, M/DF (a clay model of a ziggurat)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 10 min./level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no
This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature, whether it is a racial tongue or a regional dialect. The subject can speak only one language at a time, although it may be able to understand several languages. Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don't speak. The subject can make itself understood as far as its voice carries. This spell does not predispose any creature addressed toward the subject in any way.
Tongues can be made permanent with a permanency spell.
reyyvin |
since Tongues is the prerequisite spell for Gold Nodule, would that qualify as giving them the ability to do so?
Actually Mike Brock ruled animals with it 3 or higher can activate Ioun Stones.
But no matter the source, animals are animals and cannot speak, unless something specifically gives them the ability to do so.
What would qualify something as "specifically gives them the ability" to speak?
are we talking about spells like tongues? http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/tongues.html#_tongues
how about items like the Gold Nodule Ioun stone, made from tongues
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun- stones/gold-nodule
"This stone grants you the ability to comprehend, speak, read, and write a single language (chosen by the ioun stone's creator)"
or are we talking things that specifically say an animal can talk, like:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/3rd-party-magic-items/3rd-party-wondrou s-items/alluria-publishing/collar-of-beast-speech
(yes, I realize this item is not PFS legal)
Andrew Christian |
A spell, an ability that specifically says they can speak, etc.
Learning a language, gaining more intelligence, etc. does not say that it specifically gives them the ability to speak.
As for the gold nodule ioun stone that's a good question. I'd imagine that the creature would normally have to be able to speak in order to be able to "speak the language".
In this case, since animals do not have the innate ability to speak, they would not be able to speak the language with the gold nodule.
There are some archetypes out there I think, for the druid, that give their animals the ability to speak specifically.
In this case, it would have to specifically give an animal the ability to speak.
Finlanderboy |
School divination; Level bard 1, cleric 2, druid 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a page from a dictionary)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 24 hours
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
You can share your facility for one particular language with another creature. For 24 hours the target can read, understand, and communicate to the best of its ability in any one language which you already know. For every 5 levels you possess, you can grant the use of another language you know, to a maximum of 5 languages at 20th level. The target must have the physical capacity to articulate sounds, make gestures, or engage in whatever other method speakers of the language use to communicate with each other in order to actually converse. If the target lacks the mental capacity to grasp an actual language it still gains enough knowledge to respond to and carry out even extremely complex commands or suggestions coached in the language (whether written or spoken). However, since this spell does not endow the target with greater reasoning capacity, merely a temporarily enhanced vocabulary, the person offering up instructions to non-sentient creatures must take care to remove any ambiguity or guesswork.
Similarly, this spell does not affect the basic nature of the target, or its disposition toward you or anyone else, so convincing it to actually carry out these instructions could require negotiation, threats, or outright bribery.
a slightly easier spell to cast level wise and longer lasting
Nefreet |
Hey, reyyvin, when you post a link, please do it in this format:
[URL=http://www.yourlink.com]Whatever you want to name your link[/URL]
It will then appear as this:
Whatever you want to name your link
If you look at the links you've been posting, you'll see a space in the middle of them. When you just post the text of a link, Paizo breaks it up in an attempt to curtail spam. If you post your links the way I've shown you here, everyone will be able to click them (and you won't come off as a "newb").
FLite Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento |
Findlander boy, the problem is this line...
For 24 hours the target can read, understand, and communicate to the best of its ability in any one language which you already know.
Since the animal in question lacks the ability to communicate in words, it can speak with you to the best of it's ability, which is not at all. (You might want to include the name of your spell in your post.)
nosig |
Findlander boy, the problem is this line...
Quote:For 24 hours the target can read, understand, and communicate to the best of its ability in any one language which you already know.Since the animal in question lacks the ability to communicate in words, it can speak with you to the best of it's ability, which is not at all. (You might want to include the name of your spell in your post.)
this is kind of judge dependant though.
several judges would point out that the spell Speak with Animals lets the caster "ask questions of and receive answers from animals", and at 7th level a wizards familiar gains "Speak with Animals of Its Kind (Ex)" which would seem to indicate that animal speach is possible... at least for some judges. YMMV.
Finlanderboy |
FLite wrote:Findlander boy, the problem is this line...
Quote:For 24 hours the target can read, understand, and communicate to the best of its ability in any one language which you already know.Since the animal in question lacks the ability to communicate in words, it can speak with you to the best of it's ability, which is not at all. (You might want to include the name of your spell in your post.)this is kind of judge dependant though.
several judges would point out that the spell Speak with Animals lets the caster "ask questions of and receive answers from animals", and at 7th level a wizards familiar gains "Speak with Animals of Its Kind (Ex)" which would seem to indicate that animal speach is possible... at least for some judges. YMMV.
If a DM ruled that way. That would be the last time I played at their table. DMs can make tons of crazy rulings. It does not make it right.
nosig |
nosig wrote:If a DM ruled that way. That would be the last time I played at their table. DMs can make tons of crazy rulings. It does not make it right.FLite wrote:Findlander boy, the problem is this line...
Quote:For 24 hours the target can read, understand, and communicate to the best of its ability in any one language which you already know.Since the animal in question lacks the ability to communicate in words, it can speak with you to the best of it's ability, which is not at all. (You might want to include the name of your spell in your post.)this is kind of judge dependant though.
several judges would point out that the spell Speak with Animals lets the caster "ask questions of and receive answers from animals", and at 7th level a wizards familiar gains "Speak with Animals of Its Kind (Ex)" which would seem to indicate that animal speach is possible... at least for some judges. YMMV.
I do not understand your post.
do you mean if a judge ruled that a PC with speak to animals active could ask an animal a question and the had the animal reply in words that "that would be the last time you played at their table"? or what?
Name Violation |
Dylos |
Dylos wrote:I think the Worg is the only animal companion capable of speech, part of why I have to figure out how to get one.a feat, and alignment within 1 step of neutral evil (neutral)
I didn't mean mechanically, I meant more along the lines of it will be difficult to roleplay a Neutral character who has an intelligent evil companion without becoming evil themselves. I considered making an Aasimar that gets a Worg, because the idea of a Celestial Worg interests me.
The Morphling |
Name Violation wrote:I didn't mean mechanically, I meant more along the lines of it will be difficult to roleplay a Neutral character who has an intelligent evil companion without becoming evil themselves. I considered making an Aasimar that gets a Worg, because the idea of a Celestial Worg interests me.Dylos wrote:I think the Worg is the only animal companion capable of speech, part of why I have to figure out how to get one.a feat, and alignment within 1 step of neutral evil (neutral)
That's nothing. My Aasimar wizard has a Celestial Imp.
Nefreet |
My Chaotic Neutral Magus and devotee of Rovagug (complete with birthmark of the Rough Beast) has a Quasit Familiar, an evil Ioun Stone, an evil Brand, and carries a minor artifact that radiates moderate Necromancy.
He's never had any trouble*.
Muser |
I too have a malefically tattooed, evil ioun stone bearing Chaotic "Neutral" character. It's unfortunate he's a Seeker nowadays. It was fun making stealth checks every time the party was traveling by his ship Dagon's Eye. While the rest of the party slept, he was performing blood sacrifices to unnamable icthyic entities with his first mate. You know, for insurance.
That said, this crap wouldn't fly anymore, I know. The campaign has definitely changed.