Oh there are so, so many things PF can't do, unfortunately.
1. A martial that isn't absolutely terrible.
2. A shapeshifter that can turn into something besides "nature forms". I'd love a shapeshifter that can do humanoids, aberrations, undead, outsiders, etc.
3. A "dread knight" type of character. Basically a melee caster whose abilities revolve around fear and pain.
4. Any of my favorite 4E classes: Warden, Warlord, Battlemind, Swordmage, Runepriest, Invoker.
5. An elementalist character that can actually control the elements.
6. A full BAB, d10 HD occult class.
I can do this all day. Personally, I hate most of Paizo's classes. Why? Because there are no original ideas, just different variations of the same boring ideas. Oracles are divine Sorcerers, Spiritualist is a psychic Summoner with a much worse pet, Mesmerist is a psychic bard. And when they do decide to try something original, we get turds like the Kineticist and Medium.
1. Well, I guess "terrible" is a very imprecise word. For the record, I don't consider Paladins, Rangers and Bloodragers to be pure martials since they cast spells. Not a fan of Barbs or Fighters.
2. Goliath Druid doesn't do "humanoids", it only does giants, which is one very small and specific subset of humanoid.
3. Antipaladins aren't what I described, they're "stupid evil" and completely unplayable except in very specific campaigns. Dread doesn't fit the bill either, it's more like a reverse bard than what I described.
4. Nah, Path of War had nothing to do with those classes, except Warlord. They did do a crappy version of Warlord. Not worth playing.
5. 3rd party is usually a problem, most GMs don't allow it. For the record though, Spheres of Power is very intriguing to me.
6. Id rager isn't a good example. The rules for that archetype are so unclear that it's basically unplayable.
Chaotic Evil, and the Antipaladin code don't have to be played "Stupid Evil." In the hands of a competent Roleplayer, it's playable just fine.
Alternately, you may be able to convince your DM to loosen the code/alignment restrictions a bit.
Alternately again, you can play a Tyrant or Insinuator Antipaladin, which change the alignment and code, respectively.
except it's not, the powers you can give it all seem to revolve around the idea of you making a monster, also it's simply NOT an extraordinary ability and thus doesn't function in antimagic fields or the like.Well you can pretend it's whatever you want, that's the beauty of refluffing, it still works really well for the battlesuit concept. Hell, for the aegis it literally is armor.
a character who uses a battlesuit/mech/living armor/any class that focuses on armor at all.
Synthegist grants living armor.
here's the thing, I WANT to lug around my battlesuit.
also both the synth and that psionic class basically just make a new form, not armor. You can more easily pretend it's a transformation special move than a suit of armor.
That is moving goalposts because no one said it had to function there.
Soulknife can do it. They can form magic armor/shields in anti/null magic areas with archetypes.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dre amscarred-press/armored-blade
I did, when I said I wanted an actual suit or armor/battlemech. I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT BROUGHT THIS UP!
I can't even just tinker with my suit unless I pretend it exists when it doesn't. ;-;
anyway, back with zoro, been watching one piece while I play games and so now he can not only wield 3 swords, but can also cut a galleon in half with a single attack.
which for anyone who's curious, has 1200 HP. A galleon is usually a double decker, so this would be a massive ship.
1. Well, I guess "terrible" is a very imprecise word. For the record, I don't consider Paladins, Rangers and Bloodragers to be pure martials since they cast spells. Not a fan of Barbs or Fighters.
2. Goliath Druid doesn't do "humanoids", it only does giants, which is one very small and specific subset of humanoid.
3. Antipaladins aren't what I described, they're "stupid evil" and completely unplayable except in very specific campaigns. Dread doesn't fit the bill either, it's more like a reverse bard than what I described.
4. Nah, Path of War had nothing to do with those classes, except Warlord. They did do a crappy version of Warlord. Not worth playing.
5. 3rd party is usually a problem, most GMs don't allow it. For the record though, Spheres of Power is very intriguing to me.
6. Id rager isn't a good example. The rules for that archetype are so unclear that it's basically unplayable.
1. I agree, only a barbarian is a straight martial and only does it by doing vaious supernatural things. :/
2. I love spheres of power(f+%~ i can't stop) because it is extremely shifter friendly.
3. Antipaladins have a very open code, a code that would allow them to work with paladins(though paladin code says they can't work with antipaladins. :/) so, don't confuse antipaladins with normal paladins. Chaotic evil could very well place them as a violent-revolutionary for instance, which isn't completely unthinkable.
4. never played 4E
5. fukin Spheres of power for days. you want to make a hurricane, you're good to go, you want to make a hurricane that's on fire? you're good to go. There's also the ability to control various things like earth stuff, plants, fire, water, and metal.
Also a lot of the other stuff you can RP as elemental stuff. Like you can get a drawback on telekinesis so that you can only manipulate water for instance.
6. no opinion
Chaotic Evil, and the Antipaladin code don't have to be played "Stupid Evil." In the hands of a competent Roleplayer, it's playable just fine.
Alternately, you may be able to convince your DM to loosen the code/alignment restrictions a bit.
Alternately again, you can play a Tyrant or Insinuator Antipaladin, which change the alignment and code, respectively.
Sorry, I should've been more specific. It's not just the Antipaladin code that's stupid evil, it's their class abilities. Detect Good? Smite Good? When is any of this going to be useful?
Paizo classes have trouble with "shades of grey", everything seems to be either good or evil. Why isn't there a non-evil necromancer? Why isn't there a dark knight type of character that isn't all "stupid evil"? Why can't there be a magical knight type of character that isn't "awful good"?
Personally I despise alignment. So many classes get ruined because of alignment restrictions.
Chaotic Evil, and the Antipaladin code don't have to be played "Stupid Evil." In the hands of a competent Roleplayer, it's playable just fine.
Alternately, you may be able to convince your DM to loosen the code/alignment restrictions a bit.
Alternately again, you can play a Tyrant or Insinuator Antipaladin, which change the alignment and code, respectively.
Sorry, I should've been more specific. It's not just the Antipaladin code that's stupid evil, it's their class abilities. Detect Good? Smite Good? When is any of this going to be useful?
Paizo classes have trouble with "shades of grey", everything seems to be either good or evil. Why isn't there a non-evil necromancer? Why isn't there a dark knight type of character that isn't all "stupid evil"? Why can't there be a magical knight type of character that isn't "awful good"?
Personally I despise alignment. So many classes get ruined because of alignment restrictions.
You think in extremes dude. The antipaladin code says you can do things that could be considered good, if they aid your overall cause, or something to that degree. It's more or less the sentence that grants leeway for role playing purposes. It also puts intent into hard rules for the game, that is to mean a player's intent has just as much significance as the action itself, as far as the alignment system is concerned.
Also, no one mentioned Slayers or Vigilantes... or Gunslingers or Brawlers... I personally feel Cavaliers are underrated, especially considering the shades of grey comments above.
Everyone wants to be a paladin, until it's time to do paladin sh*t!!!
Oh there are so, so many things PF can't do, unfortunately.
1. A martial that isn't absolutely terrible.
2. A shapeshifter that can turn into something besides "nature forms". I'd love a shapeshifter that can do humanoids, aberrations, undead, outsiders, etc.
3. A "dread knight" type of character. Basically a melee caster whose abilities revolve around fear and pain.
4. Any of my favorite 4E classes: Warden, Warlord, Battlemind, Swordmage, Runepriest, Invoker.
5. An elementalist character that can actually control the elements.
6. A full BAB, d10 HD occult class.
I can do this all day. Personally, I hate most of Paizo's classes. Why? Because there are no original ideas, just different variations of the same boring ideas. Oracles are divine Sorcerers, Spiritualist is a psychic Summoner with a much worse pet, Mesmerist is a psychic bard. And when they do decide to try something original, we get turds like the Kineticist and Medium.
1. Iv'e had enough of this debate please take it somewhere else
2. this one is legit they need a shapeshifter class already3. ultimate psionics has one of those
I like the kinetcist and medium but I did not make this thread to complain or endorese classes Its to suggest new ideas for classes.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A girly yet still badass magic ribbon fighter.
A girly yet still badass magic ribbon fighter.
now that is awesome idea I think there was a feat or something for that in 3rd edition that let you use veils ribbons that kind of thing as whips. I would like to see a brawler archetype for that do your brawler damage with the ribbon. It would probably mostly be good in city settings i don't know how well it would work against giant monsters but i would want to see it! probably be armor-less or let you treat the fabric as armor maybe.
Hmm, i have tried to make the Final Fantasy Dragoon work in pathfinder but there is no "jump" type of attacks that is even close to what i am looking for. The actual "dragoon" archtype have a dismount-jump that is pretty handy, but what i want is a infantry. ( plus you get it too late to be that useful for me )
The closest i have come to play a "red mage" from the Final Fantasy Series is the Mesmerist with a rapier... but its not quite the same, but it barely cut it for me as a "varied mage with some melee capabilities".
Chaotic Evil, and the Antipaladin code don't have to be played "Stupid Evil." In the hands of a competent Roleplayer, it's playable just fine.
Alternately, you may be able to convince your DM to loosen the code/alignment restrictions a bit.
Alternately again, you can play a Tyrant or Insinuator Antipaladin, which change the alignment and code, respectively.
Sorry, I should've been more specific. It's not just the Antipaladin code that's stupid evil, it's their class abilities. Detect Good? Smite Good? When is any of this going to be useful?
Paizo classes have trouble with "shades of grey", everything seems to be either good or evil. Why isn't there a non-evil necromancer? Why isn't there a dark knight type of character that isn't all "stupid evil"? Why can't there be a magical knight type of character that isn't "awful good"?
Personally I despise alignment. So many classes get ruined because of alignment restrictions.
oh the antipaladin's strengths are that it's fear affects even mindless creatures and what not. It's more for fear builds, definitely not really used as a stand in inversed paladin by any means.
|
In terms of a shapeshifter class, there's actually the Metamorph.
Yes, it's an Alchemist Archetype that loses all alchemy...but it does get Alter Self, Monstrous Physique and Giant Form. And lets you be in one form or another not your own 24/7 by 8th level. That's not bad at all. Toss on Mutagen and it's actually a pretty solid melee combatant as well.
A girly yet still badass magic ribbon fighter.
Can't you do that with a bladed scarf (and the Bladed Scarf Dancer Magus archetype)?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A girly yet still badass magic ribbon fighter.Can't you do that with a bladed scarf (and the Bladed Scarf Dancer Magus archetype)?
Argh, on one hand it's cool but on the other had it's the magus and I suck at prepared casting.
Oh there are so, so many things PF can't do, unfortunately.
1. A martial that isn't absolutely terrible.
2. A shapeshifter that can turn into something besides "nature forms". I'd love a shapeshifter that can do humanoids, aberrations, undead, outsiders, etc.
3. A "dread knight" type of character. Basically a melee caster whose abilities revolve around fear and pain.
4. Any of my favorite 4E classes: Warden, Warlord, Battlemind, Swordmage, Runepriest, Invoker.
5. An elementalist character that can actually control the elements.
6. A full BAB, d10 HD occult class.
I can do this all day. Personally, I hate most of Paizo's classes. Why? Because there are no original ideas, just different variations of the same boring ideas. Oracles are divine Sorcerers, Spiritualist is a psychic Summoner with a much worse pet, Mesmerist is a psychic bard. And when they do decide to try something original, we get turds like the Kineticist and Medium.
1. Wizard
2. Wizard
3. Wizard
4. Not sure what those do, but probably Path of War.
5. Wizard
Argh, on one hand it's cool but on the other had it's the magus and I suck at prepared casting.A girly yet still badass magic ribbon fighter.Can't you do that with a bladed scarf (and the Bladed Scarf Dancer Magus archetype)?
Magus is pretty simple for prepared casting, mostly because it's just Shocking/Frigid Grasp half a bajillion times and a Pearl of Power necklace.
In terms of a shapeshifter class, there's actually the Metamorph.
Yes, it's an Alchemist Archetype that loses all alchemy...but it does get Alter Self, Monstrous Physique and Giant Form. And lets you be in one form or another not your own 24/7 by 8th level. That's not bad at all. Toss on Mutagen and it's actually a pretty solid melee combatant as well.
I'd love it so much more if it stacked with Vivisectionist. As is, if I want to play a horrifying shifter/monster alchemist, I'll go Beastmorph/Vivi.
Let's try this again with more specifics, in accordance with the OP's wishes:
1. A class that can fight, buff and heal others without using spells or SLAs, and without using performance. Like the 4E Warlord.
2. A shapeshifter or maybe a few different shapeshifters that can turn into humanoids, undead, outsiders, and aberrations.
3. An elementalist that can control elements, not just shoot them at people.
4. A psychic, mobile warrior type of class that gets around the battlefield by dimension door instead of walking, like the 4E Battlemind.
5. A divine caster that specializes in blasting enemies into ash with holy wrath instead of just healing and buffing, like the 4E Invoker.
6. An elemental themed warrior that can create difficult terrain around him or herself and punishes enemies with elemental melee attacks, like the 4E Warden.
7. A non-holy magical knight.
Let's try this again with more specifics, in accordance with the OP's wishes:
1. A class that can fight, buff and heal others without using spells or SLAs, and without using performance. Like the 4E Warlord.
2. A shapeshifter or maybe a few different shapeshifters that can turn into humanoids, undead, outsiders, and aberrations.
3. An elementalist that can control elements, not just shoot them at people.
4. A psychic, mobile warrior type of class that gets around the battlefield by dimension door instead of walking, like the 4E Battlemind.
5. A divine caster that specializes in blasting enemies into ash with holy wrath instead of just healing and buffing, like the 4E Invoker.
6. An elemental themed warrior that can create difficult terrain around him or herself and punishes enemies with elemental melee attacks, like the 4E Warden.
7. A non-holy magical knight.
1) (Ex) healing and buffs in combat? Without performance? Cavalier, some fighter archetypes for sharing teamwork feats as buffs. Channel Energy and Lay on Hands are both (Su), so not spells.
2) Taskshaper is 3rd-party, but I like it.
3) Kineticist utility talents to some extent.
4) Mindblade Magus, pick up Bladed Dash, Greater Bladed Dash, Dimension door into the Dimensional Dervish feat chain, etc.
Or use DSP psionics, they get similar abilities.
5) Cleric/Oracle. Fire domain gives fireball. Other domains can get you other blasting spells. Take metamagic, blow people up.
6) Battle Oracle/Clerics. I know there's a domain that makes rough terrain around you, think it's Isolation, but that's off the top of my head.
7) Eldritch Knight, Magus, Arcanist Blade-Adept, etc. Could even do Bloodrager (no alignment restriction, there's an archetype for heavy armor).
Let's try this again with more specifics, in accordance with the OP's wishes:
1. A class that can fight, buff and heal others without using spells or SLAs, and without using performance. Like the 4E Warlord.
2. A shapeshifter or maybe a few different shapeshifters that can turn into humanoids, undead, outsiders, and aberrations.
3. An elementalist that can control elements, not just shoot them at people.
4. A psychic, mobile warrior type of class that gets around the battlefield by dimension door instead of walking, like the 4E Battlemind.
5. A divine caster that specializes in blasting enemies into ash with holy wrath instead of just healing and buffing, like the 4E Invoker.
6. An elemental themed warrior that can create difficult terrain around him or herself and punishes enemies with elemental melee attacks, like the 4E Warden.
7. A non-holy magical knight.
1) (Ex) healing and buffs in combat? Without performance? Cavalier, some fighter archetypes for sharing teamwork feats as buffs. Channel Energy and Lay on Hands are both (Su), so not spells.
2) Taskshaper is 3rd-party, but I like it.
3) Kineticist utility talents to some extent.
4) Mindblade Magus, pick up Bladed Dash, Greater Bladed Dash, Dimension door into the Dimensional Dervish feat chain, etc.
Or use DSP psionics, they get similar abilities.
5) Cleric/Oracle. Fire domain gives fireball. Other domains can get you other blasting spells. Take metamagic, blow people up.
6) Battle Oracle/Clerics. I know there's a domain that makes rough terrain around you, think it's Isolation, but that's off the top of my head.
7) Eldritch Knight, Magus, Arcanist Blade-Adept, etc. Could even do Bloodrager (no alignment restriction, there's an archetype for heavy armor).
I was gonna post a similar list, but ninjas...
1) Easily done with a cavalier or a paladin that gives up spellcasting. Nonmagical healing has gotten some love recently with the skill unlocks in Unchained.2) These exist, Marshmallow Fallacy
3) Kineticists have so much more to them then just blasting... Utility talents define this.
4) Again, large number of characters can do this, shortlist: Paladins, Rangers, Bloodragers, Fighters (Child of Acavna and Amaznen), Magi, not to mention the psionic classes who can do this too. Dimensional Savant is a thing.
5) The Ecclesitheurge can get 3 domains going, more or less. Pick a domain to be your specialized domain that has good blasting spells and roll with it. Wear bracers of armor, or get a familiar that can cast mage armor, done. Plus there's Reach Spell and all those inflict spells, if nothing else. Channel Ray is a thing. This can be done so many ways.
6) Kineticists cover this too, they even have form infusions that specifically make walls and stuff.....
7) Define Knight? Eldritch Knight is literally that. Magi, Child of Acavna and Amaznen, Even Rangers and to an extent bards and skalds can do this.
I'm doing a pretty poor job of describing these classes I think. It's hard to describe them to someone that never played them though.
What I'm talking about are classes that have these abilities as intrinsic abilities, not spells they can cast once or twice a day depending on available slots.
1. Teamwork feats are absolutely horrible unfortunately. I'm currently playing a lvl 15 Inquisitor and I can't even remember the last time I used one of those things. I haven't even bothered selecting the last couple teamwork feats I'm supposed to get cause they're so worthless.
2. Shapeshifting into all these things as a class ability without spells? Maybe as a 3rd party class, certainly not anything Paizo created.
3. Utility talents are extremely limited and mostly worthless, unfortunately.
4. Mindblade Magus is pretty cool, but casting dimension door as a spell once or twice a day isn't the same as dimension door as a move action.
5. The problem with Oracle or Ecclesitheurge is that they don't actually have any abilities that make them any good at blasting. Also, the Cleric spell list isn't great for offense.
6. Kineticist doesn't really fit the Warden theme unfortunately.
7. By magical knight, I mean someone who wears at least medium armor and has at least 2/3 BAB, martial weapon proficiencies, at least d8 HD, and arcane or psychic spells but mostly fights in melee. Magus is too tied into touch spell attacks, bards and skalds aren't really true melee classes, and I hate performance. Eldritch knight might be ok though.
I want more tentacles!
I feel with you. Synthesist is probably the closest thing, but suffers from having other natural attacks built-in, difficult rulings and balance problems. Turning into an animal or magical beast usually doesn't help, because tentacles tend to be reserved to aquatic animals, aberrations, outsiders or plants. And sometimes you don't want to become something else but just add a few natural attacks...
So I'd like an organic approach to get several tentacle attacks. Not puzzling it together via items, class dips and implants, but a steady improvement of tentacle amount and power. I made up something a while ago, perhaps I should polish it and present it...
I'm doing a pretty poor job of describing these classes I think. It's hard to describe them to someone that never played them though.
What I'm talking about are classes that have these abilities as intrinsic abilities, not spells they can cast once or twice a day depending on available slots.
1. Teamwork feats are absolutely horrible unfortunately. I'm currently playing a lvl 15 Inquisitor and I can't even remember the last time I used one of those things. I haven't even bothered selecting the last couple teamwork feats I'm supposed to get cause they're so worthless.
2. Shapeshifting into all these things as a class ability without spells? Maybe as a 3rd party class, certainly not anything Paizo created.
3. Utility talents are extremely limited and mostly worthless, unfortunately.
4. Mindblade Magus is pretty cool, but casting dimension door as a spell once or twice a day isn't the same as dimension door as a move action.
5. The problem with Oracle or Ecclesitheurge is that they don't actually have any abilities that make them any good at blasting. Also, the Cleric spell list isn't great for offense.
6. Kineticist doesn't really fit the Warden theme unfortunately.
7. By magical knight, I mean someone who wears at least medium armor and has at least 2/3 BAB, martial weapon proficiencies, at least d8 HD, and arcane or psychic spells but mostly fights in melee. Magus is too tied into touch spell attacks, bards and skalds aren't really true melee classes, and I hate performance. Eldritch knight might be ok though.
1. Totally subjective. Teamwork feats work great when you know how to use them effectively. Not just higher bonuses, but I recently had players and NPCs use them to great effect for buffs. Not to mention the hunter who has teamwork feats specifically designed for it to work with the animal companion better than anyone else, making teamwork feats great for it because it actually can use them in tandem without affecting the other player's builds. Cavaliers have more buffs than tactician, Banner, the Flagbearer feat, and Order abilities are all about that stuff.
2. Hvae you seen the ranger that does this? The metamorph? The goliath druid?
3. Marshmallow Fallacy
4. Dimensional Savant makes it a swift action. Spell Recall is a thing. You can cast it spontaneously with feats. At this point on this one you're choosing not to be happy with the options available.
5. What? Channel Ray improving the DC and letting you shoot beams directly at the enemy isn't good? In addition to being able to do spells? Most wizard builds that specialize in blasting typically have one or two signature spells that they focus on to enhance their ability to blast. The ecclesitheurge can to the same thing with the right domain choice allowing them to pick a single spell off it and focus on it. Fireball comes to mind, since that's the one most blaster wizards do. An ecclesitheurge with VMC wizard (Admixture) and Magical Lineage (Fireball) with Fire as its chosen domain can do pretty much anything the same kind of specialized blaster wizard can do plus healing. Rime Empowered Fireballs that do ice damage? Check. "I don't like it" doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
6. I'm not familiar with the class, but I'm sure that Wall of Fire and Earth Shape are things that can be done.
7. There are magi that don't need to focus on touch spells. Spellstrike is great, because it offers a free weapon attack, but nothing stops you from casting magic missile or fireball with Spell Combat. There are bard and skald archetypes that do great in combat... There's a bard(s) that only buffs himself, some of them do so with double the normal bonuses.....
3. Marshmallow Fallacy
That's not a real fallacy. Stop. That an ability is really bad CAN very easily make it not worth using and the difference between 'so bad you should never use it' and 'doesn't exist' is pretty moot.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Once third party is involved there isn't much I can think of. It doesn't even take that many really.
1) Spheres of Power goes a long way, but if you use the Tradition function to a huge degree this goes into whatever territory you want like cybernetics, alchemy, gadgets, psionics and so on. So all variant's of 'casting' is handled with the added bonus of being capable of being balanced with non casting classes. Even straight martials are capable with it if you file off serial numbers.
2) Anachronistic Adventures handles the mundane characters with an extreme degree of flexibility while also staying relatively setting agnostic.
After that the only thing that you really can't do is really low-key characters, like being in high school or something that's that mundane from level 1-20. I know that there's a general fear and mistrust of third party material but at some point, considering the problems people complain about, not being able to go for the well regarded ones is just choosing to have a worse game because one or two products cures most of them. If you're disappointed that those won't come to PFS, here's the thing; Some third party things are all encompassing because there is a mechanical hole that is purposely nebulous in order to account for more. PFS is a different context that leans heavily closer to the game aspect than the roleplay aspect. It has its specific setting and different rules from normal to maintain it's own thing, so the ability to 'do anything' or encompass any concept isn't really appropriate for what it is so I'm not sure if it even matters in topics like this.
I'm doing a pretty poor job of describing these classes I think. It's hard to describe them to someone that never played them though.
What I'm talking about are classes that have these abilities as intrinsic abilities, not spells they can cast once or twice a day depending on available slots.
1. Teamwork feats are absolutely horrible unfortunately. I'm currently playing a lvl 15 Inquisitor and I can't even remember the last time I used one of those things. I haven't even bothered selecting the last couple teamwork feats I'm supposed to get cause they're so worthless.
2. Shapeshifting into all these things as a class ability without spells? Maybe as a 3rd party class, certainly not anything Paizo created.
3. Utility talents are extremely limited and mostly worthless, unfortunately.
4. Mindblade Magus is pretty cool, but casting dimension door as a spell once or twice a day isn't the same as dimension door as a move action.
5. The problem with Oracle or Ecclesitheurge is that they don't actually have any abilities that make them any good at blasting. Also, the Cleric spell list isn't great for offense.
6. Kineticist doesn't really fit the Warden theme unfortunately.
7. By magical knight, I mean someone who wears at least medium armor and has at least 2/3 BAB, martial weapon proficiencies, at least d8 HD, and arcane or psychic spells but mostly fights in melee. Magus is too tied into touch spell attacks, bards and skalds aren't really true melee classes, and I hate performance. Eldritch knight might be ok though.
1. Shake it Off? Outflank? Ranged Inquisitors can grab Friendly Fire Maneuvers at level 3 and have the important part of Improved Precise Shot 8 levels early. There are some good ones considering the other options if you dig.
2. Best I got for ya is trying out a Kitsune Metamorph Alchemist. Lots of form options here. Just watch your will save. Irrepressible will be your friend.
3. Yeah, I'd agree on this one. I looked through the list when my Geokineticist leveled up (Isn't Geo one of the good ones?), and was severely underwhelmed. Doesn't mean they don't exist.
4. Magus is already pretty strong, Asking for At-will teleportation just sounds like too much. If that was all they got it'd be one thing, but there are a lot of tricks a Magus can have up their sleeve. Also, Pearls of power + high Int will give you a lot more than "once or twice." This is a toy I've wanted for a while myself, And I'm pretty sure it's meant to be hard to get for a reason.
5. Also fair. We could use a divine caster specialized enough to make the cool-but-bad spells like Flame Strike and others a cool thing.
6. Sounds like a you problem.
7. Have you looked at the Dervish of Dawn Bard? You alter performance to better murder people in the face. Or Bloodrager. Full BAB, spells, whichever armor you want, and Arcane bloodline gets you extra buffs. Otherwise, you really are just being picky at this point.
As for me, I'd be happy with a dedicated crafter class. Like the Artificer, but not broke as f@#~. Only thing I can't stand more than when a class is too weak is when it's too good.
Sorry, I meant to say I'm Not doing a good job of describing these classes, not that I was doing a good job. Typo there.
Just to clarify, we were asked to come up with ideas that can't be done in PF. People seem to think I'm just ragging on PF for no reason.
None of what I said has any bearing on whether I enjoy PF or think it's a good system. I'm just trying to come up with ideas I've seen in other systems that can't be done in PF.
Oh there are so, so many things PF can't do, unfortunately.
1. A martial that isn't absolutely terrible.
2. A shapeshifter that can turn into something besides "nature forms". I'd love a shapeshifter that can do humanoids, aberrations, undead, outsiders, etc.
3. A "dread knight" type of character. Basically a melee caster whose abilities revolve around fear and pain.
4. Any of my favorite 4E classes: Warden, Warlord, Battlemind, Swordmage, Runepriest, Invoker.
5. An elementalist character that can actually control the elements.
6. A full BAB, d10 HD occult class.
I can do this all day. Personally, I hate most of Paizo's classes. Why? Because there are no original ideas, just different variations of the same boring ideas. Oracles are divine Sorcerers, Spiritualist is a psychic Summoner with a much worse pet, Mesmerist is a psychic bard. And when they do decide to try something original, we get turds like the Kineticist and Medium.
1. Wizard
2. Wizard
3. Wizard
4. Not sure what those do, but probably Path of War.
5. Wizard
I felt like you got to 6 and went "SHIT".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No, Wizard just isn't full BaB, there is no real way to turn him into one, and any other answer wouldn't have fit the theme.
Transformation is a spell that comes online when martials are getting their 3rd itterative. 2-3 levels later a rod of quickening becomes affordable for it.
Some wizard schools/archtypes are decently suited to the role.
Eldritch Knight is also a thing, with a trait to make up for up to 2 lost caster levels.
NEVERMIND!
6. Wizard, fluff as occult.
3. Marshmallow FallacyThat's not a real fallacy. Stop. That an ability is really bad CAN very easily make it not worth using and the difference between 'so bad you should never use it' and 'doesn't exist' is pretty moot.
Except that it isn't and it doesn't.
Stop perpetuating the fallacy by claiming it's valid.
To answer the question: "can this be done?" the answer is "yes"
Personal bias doesn't change that. Hell, even actually playing one and not having fun doesn't mean the option isn't there.
3. Marshmallow FallacyThat's not a real fallacy. Stop. That an ability is really bad CAN very easily make it not worth using and the difference between 'so bad you should never use it' and 'doesn't exist' is pretty moot.Except that it isn't and it doesn't.
Stop perpetuating the fallacy by claiming it's valid.
To answer the question: "can this be done?" the answer is "yes"
Personal bias doesn't change that. Hell, even actually playing one and not having fun doesn't mean the option isn't there.
except I think part of the done is "can you make this and have it be appropriate CR".
in fact if the abilities often fail, I'd be pressed to say when the concept probably has the abilities mostly working, that you failed to actually meet the concept.
this isn't personal bias, this is a discussion where we intend to find useful answers, not technicalities. Please stop this, it helps no one. If you feel the need to keep doing this, please ask yourself who needs to hear this and why it helps them.
If they'd be better off in 3pp or homebrew, please recommend that instead. otherwise, you're wasting time, you're being pedantic over useful.
3. Marshmallow FallacyThat's not a real fallacy. Stop. That an ability is really bad CAN very easily make it not worth using and the difference between 'so bad you should never use it' and 'doesn't exist' is pretty moot.Except that it isn't and it doesn't.
Stop perpetuating the fallacy by claiming it's valid.
To answer the question: "can this be done?" the answer is "yes"
Personal bias doesn't change that. Hell, even actually playing one and not having fun doesn't mean the option isn't there.
Respectfully, that's just not true. The potential effectiveness of an option is just as important as the existence of that option. If the majority of passenger planes exploded in mid-air, how much traveling by air would you do? People fly because it's a reasonably safe and effective form of transport. Saying something CAN be done and saying it SHOULD be done are two very different things.
Here's one: The Rich kid. A character whos biggest advantage is having way more money than anyone else. Not because he made it, he's just that loaded. Or his parents, one of the two. I'm talking the kind of guy who has a private helicopter when the rest of the party has a 98 Pontiac they deliver pizza with. Can we do that yet?
Get a DM who lets you play a level 1 Aristocrat for the entirety of the campaign, but who has the WBL of a level 20 at their disposal.
Here's one: The Rich kid. A character whos biggest advantage is having way more money than anyone else. Not because he made it, he's just that loaded. Or his parents, one of the two. I'm talking the kind of guy who has a private helicopter when the rest of the party has a 98 Pontiac they deliver pizza with. Can we do that yet?
I'm actually pretty sure there's a prestiege class that does something like this. like one of it's things is you gain 1000xPClass level in gp, every level.
Here's one: The Rich kid. A character whos biggest advantage is having way more money than anyone else. Not because he made it, he's just that loaded. Or his parents, one of the two. I'm talking the kind of guy who has a private helicopter when the rest of the party has a 98 Pontiac they deliver pizza with. Can we do that yet?I'm actually pretty sure there's a prestiege class that does something like this. like one of it's things is you gain 1000xPClass level in gp, every level.
Oh nice. That actually is pretty much what I was looking for, but...
Can't do it as the whole character progression.
Dot.
3. Marshmallow FallacyThat's not a real fallacy. Stop. That an ability is really bad CAN very easily make it not worth using and the difference between 'so bad you should never use it' and 'doesn't exist' is pretty moot.Except that it isn't and it doesn't.
Stop perpetuating the fallacy by claiming it's valid.
To answer the question: "can this be done?" the answer is "yes"
Personal bias doesn't change that. Hell, even actually playing one and not having fun doesn't mean the option isn't there.
Respectfully, that's just not true. The potential effectiveness of an option is just as important as the existence of that option. If the majority of passenger planes exploded in mid-air, how much traveling by air would you do? People fly because it's a reasonably safe and effective form of transport. Saying something CAN be done and saying it SHOULD be done are two very different things.
Respectfully, the answer when the question is asked: "Can this be done?" should be "yes, but due to its mechanics it is suboptimal."
Ignoring the existence of the options helps no one, since potential DMs may want to look into it with homebrew or whatever else in mind.
Whether or not it is optimal has no bearing on its existence. That's the whole point of the fallacy. Give complete answers, since someone else may have a different opinion on whether or not the option is viable. There's nothing wrong with sharing your experience or opinion, but there is something wrong with lying to people who are asking about the existing material which may or may not be a stepping stone to satisfy a concept and saying that things that most certainly exist, do not.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
here's the thing marshmallow, what you're trying to say, isn't useful to anyone who's asking the question.
If someone puts forth can X be done? I think generally you should only show them things they would be willing to play.'
So, stop, because we don't need you pointing out technicalities.
@Dracoknight get a GM who accepts 3E material.
Then google ALa 3E builf called 'hood' or 'red raiding hood' and apply those principles to any Pathf8nder class or archtype with additional PF feats or class abilities or archetypes o4 items.
Ouch, maybe.... i have been poking at my GM for making a 3.5 convertion calling him a "special snowflake" for years.... most likely this fella will hold a grudge against me if i try to mix in 3.x stuff.
3. Marshmallow FallacyThat's not a real fallacy. Stop. That an ability is really bad CAN very easily make it not worth using and the difference between 'so bad you should never use it' and 'doesn't exist' is pretty moot.Except that it isn't and it doesn't.
Stop perpetuating the fallacy by claiming it's valid.
To answer the question: "can this be done?" the answer is "yes"
Personal bias doesn't change that. Hell, even actually playing one and not having fun doesn't mean the option isn't there.
Naming a fallacy after yourself isn't particularily modest, wherever or not it's true. At least make a website where you explain what it is.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I actually hadn't noticed that their username was master_marshmallow... I assumed the fallacy was named that because the option is weak like throwing marshmallows at your enemies.