Vanishing Rogue Build?


Advice


Hey guys, I am looking for ways to build a rogue that can literally vanish right before everyone's eyes. Is there any way that I can get my stealth high enough to do that? Or are there any other shenanigans I can pull to do this off? I still want to be useful to the team as a skill monkey rogue. I'm thinking of taking the half-elf race for the extra skill points for multitalented but I don't know where else to go from here.


The ninja is an archetype of the rogue, and has the Vanishing Trick. Spend a ki point as a swift action, and gain invisibility for 1 round/level.

If you don't want to use that archetype, you can always get the Rogue Talents "Ki Pool" and "Ninja Trick", to pick up Vanishing Trick.

When you gain advanced talents, you can get Unlock Ki, which gives you a ton more ki points, and lets you temporarily gain skill unlocks, if you like those. Then you could get Master Tricks to pick up Invisible Blade, which means your Vanishing Trick is as Improved Invisibility instead of normal (you could full attack every round, and if they can't see you, you gain Sneak Attack).

If you spent the talents, you could keep the trapping skills (make sure you pick up the Trap Spotter talent, if you do invest in trapping skills), which the ninja loses.

Multitalented doesn't get you extra skill points. It gives you an extra favored class. If you're not multiclassing much, it won't help.

Human, on the other hand (or Skilled/Human-Raised Half-Orcs) gain +1 skill point per level, plus you still have your Favored Class Bonus to use on skill points.

However, I think Rogue's get plenty of skill points that most don't need high intelligence or bonus skill points. Even with a 6 or 7 intelligence, and no bonus points, you get 6 skills always with max ranks for your level.


If you want to be able to stealth without people seeing you, there's this:

Hellcat Stealth (feat)
1 level dip into the Shadowdancer (Prestige Class)

The former allows you to stealth while being observed in normal or bright light.

The latter allows you to stealth while being observed in dim light. Some argue whether you can also stealth in darkness, but that will vary with GMs. This means that at worst, you can stealth in 3/5 states of illumination, regardless of all other factors:

Successful:
Bright, Normal, Dim,

Questionable, or successful:
Dark, Supernatural Dark (Uncommon)


Thanks for the advice guys! I'm still a little new to D&D so sorry for mixing up multitalented with something else. I'm currently looking at the shadowdancer build and taking some levels in wizard beforehand and just specializing in invisibility magic before I go into Shadowdancer


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you are trying to mix wizard in with the rogue, you may want to look at the Arcane Trickster PrC from the core rule book.

Other ways to disappear would include Smoke Sticks (alchemy) of Obscuring Mist to provide some concealment, along with Bluff to create a distraction.


7thStringer wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys! I'm still a little new to D&D so sorry for mixing up multitalented with something else. I'm currently looking at the shadowdancer build and taking some levels in wizard beforehand and just specializing in invisibility magic before I go into Shadowdancer

since you're new, don't make the mistake of taking too many classes. Unchained Rogue can take Major magic Vanish, or said Ninja Trick Vanishing Trick, but going into Wizrad won't help you much. Even Shadowdaner is more of a trap with all the feats it costs. Those feats are better spent on Extra Rogue Talent.


First, to disappear while people look at you, you need an ability like Hide in Plain Sight, or just straight up magic.

Depending on the books you (can) use, Teisatsu Vigilante (don't get discouraged by the secret identity/superhero-y stuff, you can kompletely ignore that if you want) grabbing Vanishing Trick is probably the best at what you're trying to accomplish.

If you're new to Pathfinder, I would strongly advise against multiclassing. I would also very very strongly advise against a Rogue. The Rogue class, including Unchained Rogue and the Ninja, is rather weak (especially if yo don't know what to take), including at the skill monky job (which isn't actually needed, anyway - you can spread those skills over the party), is needed for nothing, and isn't really true to it's name.

Little excursion about the mechanic/flavor divergence in the Rogue class:
A rogue is a bit of a loner, stealthy, good at many things, and a master fo precice, deadly attacks. A Pathfinder Rogue is extermly dependent on teamwork *, is not particular good at skills (and especially not at the stuff you want to use skills for) **, way worse at stealth than almost any arcane caster, and can't hit the broad side of a barn without an ally on the other side of it saying "strike this way" ***.

*) Flanking is the best way to get Sneak Attack, and Unchained Rogue's main Debilitating Injury is only really a good thing if others profit from it.
**) Sure, a Rogue has a lot of skill ranks, but I presume that a big number in "total skill points" in the character sheet is not the ultimate goal - the ultimate goal is to be good at many things. Yes, he has more skill points to put in climb, stealth etc. than a Sorcerer, but that guy can simply use Spider Climb/Fly and Invisibility. Also, he doesn't have the attributes for a good charisma without crippling his combat capability, so he'll never be as good a suave, charismatic guy as for instance a bard.
***) Despite the main damage source being "precision damage", the rogue is extremly geared towards many inaccurate attacks. Even more so for Unchained Rogue (which is a straight upgrade but doesn't really fix the problems).

Also, on a rogue/ninja/vigilante, you have plenty of skill points, so don't worry to much about those.


Hey, @7thStringer:

I had a rogue, way back when, that accomplished this feat of tomfoolery :) I took the Ki Pool rogue talent at 2nd level. At 3rd level I picked up the Extra Rogue Talent feat, nabbed the Ninja Trick rogue talent, and picked up Vanishing Trick from the ninja. This ability requires having a bit of Wisdom score and is only a Swift Action to utilize. I used the Knife Master archetype and used Two-Weapong Fighting with a couple of daggers. It was fun! I had a good time being melee support for our frontline fighter. He was great at setting up flanks with me.

However, another route you could take is picking up Minor Magic as your rogue talent at 2nd level. At 3rd level you pick up the Extra Rogue Talent feat and grab the Major Magic rogue talent. This allows you access to the Vanish spell. This ability requires having a bit of an Intelligence score, but requires a Standard Action to activate. It also caps out at 5 rounds whereas your Vanishing Trick would cap out at 20 rounds (at 20th level).

Also, if you're new to Pathfinder I highly recommend experimentation and play. If you want to play a rogue, then play it! It may not be an optimized class, but if it's what you want to explore and play then do it :) You will enjoy the process more if you play what you want to play. I would definitely recommend sticking with a single class at first (as opposed to dipping into multiclassing and prestige classes) just so you can get a feel for the flow and mechanics without any added frustrations.

If you are adamant about prestige classes, I'd recommend checking out the Arcane Trickster Prc and the Shadowdancer PrC. Both kind of fit the bill of what it is you're looking for. They are both from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook.

I hope you find some fun with your character.

Cheers!


Mechanical Pear wrote:

The ninja is an archetype of the rogue, and has the Vanishing Trick. Spend a ki point as a swift action, and gain invisibility for 1 round/level.

If you don't want to use that archetype, you can always get the Rogue Talents "Ki Pool" and "Ninja Trick", to pick up Vanishing Trick.

When you gain advanced talents, you can get Unlock Ki, which gives you a ton more ki points, and lets you temporarily gain skill unlocks, if you like those. Then you could get Master Tricks to pick up Invisible Blade, which means your Vanishing Trick is as Improved Invisibility instead of normal (you could full attack every round, and if they can't see you, you gain Sneak Attack).

If you spent the talents, you could keep the trapping skills (make sure you pick up the Trap Spotter talent, if you do invest in trapping skills), which the ninja loses.

Multitalented doesn't get you extra skill points. It gives you an extra favored class. If you're not multiclassing much, it won't help.

Human, on the other hand (or Skilled/Human-Raised Half-Orcs) gain +1 skill point per level, plus you still have your Favored Class Bonus to use on skill points.

However, I think Rogue's get plenty of skill points that most don't need high intelligence or bonus skill points. Even with a 6 or 7 intelligence, and no bonus points, you get 6 skills always with max ranks for your level.

After you get Ninja Vanishing Trick, take a level in Wizard or Arcanist and cast Ranged Touch Attack Cantrips. Acquire a Wand of Scorching Ray. While Vanished, your opponent has no Dex Mod to AC, and you get your Sneak Attack Damage. So now we are talking about Ranged Touch Attacks vs. Flatfooted AC that do Sneak Attack Damage on top of the 4d6 for Scorching Ray. That makes me smile.

Take 3 levels in Monk, Drunken Master, and then take the Potion Glutton Feat. With Drunken Ki, you can replenish your Ki all you want with swigs of Applejack as Swift Actions. Take a 4th level in Monk; be a Quinngong Drunken Master, and get Scorching Ray that way. Or just keep taking levels in Ninja, gaining an extra Ki Point every other level. With 10 levels in Ninja, you get Greater Invisibility as a Ninja Trick. At some point, you might work toward becoming an Arcane Trickster on top of all or some of this, depending on what you want.

Mechanical Pear wrote:
Unlock Ki, which gives you a ton more ki points,

What's Unlock Ki? That sounds interesting.


From the Magic Tactics Toolbox:

Unlock Ki

Prerequisite(s): Ki pool.

Benefit(s): A rogue with this advanced talent increases the number of points in the ki pool that she gains from the ki pool rogue talent to be equal to 1/2 her rogue level + her highest mental ability score modifier (Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma). In addition, she can spend 2 points from her ki pool as a swift action to gain the skill unlocks for one skill of her choice as appropriate for her number of ranks in that skill. This benefit lasts for 1 minute.

On the same theme, Scott, I had built a Ninja Sorcerer. Swift action to invisible himself, then standard to cast a spell. Spell damage + Sneak Attack, and from what I understand, the Sneak Attack damage benefits from things such as Orc and Draconic Bloodlines (or both, being Crossblooded), and Blood Havoc.

He had a flavorful background, too, I think.


Listen, if you are okay with accepting you are going to be behind on SA and okay with using magic, the Eldritch Scoundrel can take Vanishing Trick as a ninja trick in place of a rogue talent at 4th, and sacrifice spells prepared to use it in addition to their Ki pool if they have one. It is the cleanest, easiest method of getting Vanishing Trick as a ROGUE and not just playing Ninja. In addition, you can pair it with Unchained Rogue (which locks you out of ki pool access but no biggy) to get Dex to Hit and Damage, as well as Debilitating Strike and Rogue Edge. Very good features that more than make up for the slow SA progresss.

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